We have a GM problem

[hockeydoug]

What do you think eventually turned the Hawks around?

Panthers or Hawks?

Hawks turned around when WWW moved on, but that's not a good comp dealing in the new cap world.

Florida turned around when ownership realized they had a lap dog and not a competent experienced professional in the seat.

 

[BLKHKhockey]

Jesus this place has been insufferable lately. People need to relax.

 

[hockeydoug]

I’ve read this five times and have no idea what this is supposed to mean or what the proposed correct course of action is supposed to be, if not a “draft-focused rebuild” from a team if they determine they are “bad at drafting and development”

It means that they forgot to build everything else except being bad and maybe updating HR.

It's not just grabbing a few players and saying "go" if they're going to have a sustainable contender next decade. They burned a couple of years and they still have blind leading the blind in way too many offices.

 

[ColbyChaos]

It wasn’t long ago that Yzerman and Verbeek in Tampa were seen as the genius scouting and drafting duo. Neither have knocked it out of the park in Detroit and Anaheim

 

[Hawkaholic]

It means that they forgot to build everything else except being bad and maybe updating HR.

It's not just grabbing a few players and saying "go" if they're going to have a sustainable contender next decade. They burned a couple of years and they still have blind leading the blind in way too many offices.

You're grasping at straws it seems. You think they didn't try to hire the best scouts, etc and just blindly went up to the draft board and picked random dudes? like wtf are you even talking about?

 

[WarriorofTime]

You're grasping at straws it seems. You think they didn't try to hire the best scouts, etc and just blindly went up to the draft board and picked random dudes? like wtf are you even talking about?

I think that he's saying the IT and Marketing Departments aren't up to industry standards. Who knows. The vague generalities combined with the rather boldness of claims make it all rather confusing to follow.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I think that he's saying the IT and Marketing Departments aren't up to industry standards. Who knows. The vague generalities combined with the rather boldness of claims make it all rather confusing to follow.

Agreed, just going to ignore it from now on.

 

[Blackhawks]

I love how this is the worst team and the homers still defend it bc they're suckers.

There are more effective ways to build a team than burning things down and indefinitely crossing your fingers.

I repeat, Kyle Davidsons OWN WORDS were that a repeat of last season was NOT acceptable.

Excuse me for holding someone to their own standards.

These people here have been like this for decades, when I would tell people here that Stan sucks(since 2016) and you will see time will fly by and soon a decade will go by and the Hawks haven’t won anything or performed well, they laughed at me, well here we are, it’s been a decade of Stan the man and his grasshopper leading the team into the ground. All I hear/heard all along the way is “I am unsure let’s give him a few more years” as if we are gonna live forever. Imagine yourself just floating and accepting mediocrity all your life, this is where this hommerism stems from. They also say to anyone with criticism of authority “these are meat heads and use the ignore button” but they always respond because deep down they know we are right.

 

[MHO]

These people here have been like this for decades, when I would tell people here that Stan sucks(since 2016) and you will see time will fly by and soon a decade will go by and the Hawks haven’t won anything or performed well, they laughed at me, well here we are, it’s been a decade of Stan the man and his grasshopper leading the team into the ground. All I hear/heard all along the way is “I am unsure let’s give him a few more years” as if we are gonna live forever. Imagine yourself just floating and accepting mediocrity all your life, this is where this hommerism stems from. They also say to any criticism of authority “these are meat heads and use the ignore button” but they always respond because deep down they know we are right.

KD did decide to tear it down and this is the result. I'm fully on the 'let's give him more time' train as only 3 of his draft picks have even played in the NHL so far and that would be a normal occurrence considering NHL draft picks usually take a few year before they play in the pros. I'd feel differently if those draft picks were not producing in college/juniors/minors but they are and I'm still excited for the future. Yeah I'd like to see Oliver Moore put up better numbers but it looks like KD hit on some later picks like Rinzel, Thompson, Kantserov, etc.

As for this year's team, yeah they stink. But would you really feel any better if they had another 12-15 points putting them in the 'still bad but not the worst team in the league' category? And those additional wins were driven by guys who aren't gonna be here next year? Would that really make you happier?

 

[Blackhawks]

Everyone knows the team is awful but this hasn't exactly been a repeat of last season. They're on pace to improve goal differential by like 40. They're competitive most nights and only have a couple of guys who don't belong in the league as opposed to like half the team. It's objectively far less bleak even if it's still bad.

And building a contending team out of a declining, stagnating mess like the Blackhawks were in without razing it down requires far more finger crossing than a proper rebuild. You can criticize the choices made within the rebuild but committing to the tank was absolutely the right move. You being sick of losing after a couple of years doesn't change that

This is the kind of junk analysis I have read for 10 years, more and more excuses. It’s been ten years of trash let’s wait another 10 years. Sometimes you have to just evaluate a GM at the 3 year mark not after ten years. After 3 years the team has done absolutely nothing, no improvement, zilch, has not improved at all, don’t give me the goal differential crap, they are worse than last year in the standings, it’s about winning and losing last time I checked…

 

[Blackhawks]

KD did decide to tear it down and this is the result. I'm fully on the 'let's give him more time' train as only 3 of his draft picks have even played in the NHL so far and that would be a normal occurrence considering NHL draft picks usually take a few year before they play in the pros. I'd feel differently if those draft picks were not producing in college/juniors/minors but they are and I'm still excited for the future. Yeah I'd like to see Oliver Moore put up better numbers but it looks like KD hit on some later picks like Rinzel, Thompson, Kantserov, etc.

As for this year's team, yeah they stink. But would you really feel any better if they had another 12-15 points putting them in the 'still bad but not the worst team in the league' category? And those additional wins were driven by guys who aren't gonna be here next year? Would that really make you happier?

What? Who said I want the team to “be driven by guys who won’t be here next year”? Bro I am not saying to go and sign a bunch of random guys, the guy sucks at literally everything, drafting, trading, signing, everything, he’s clueless, and mark my words with him this team will NEVER be a contender, you can give him not 3 more years but 53 more years.

 

[statswatcher]

they laughed at me

do you think they laugh at you because they think you are wrong or because you are a silly clownish individual?

 

[MHO]

What? Who said I want the team to “be driven by guys who won’t be here next year”? Bro I am not saying to go and sign a bunch of random guys, the guy sucks at literally everything, drafting, trading, signing, everything, he’s clueless, and mark my words with him this team will NEVER be a contender, you can give him not 3 more years but 53 more years.

Ok I get it. What are some things he has done that make you think that he sucks at everything? Or what are some things he hasn't done that make you think he sucks at everything? What should he have done differently?

 

[Hawkaholic]

What? Who said I want the team to “be driven by guys who won’t be here next year”? Bro I am not saying to go and sign a bunch of random guys, the guy sucks at literally everything, drafting, trading, signing, everything, he’s clueless, and mark my words with him this team will NEVER be a contender, you can give him not 3 more years but 53 more years.

Who do you want them to hire? Since you are such a genius when it comes to who a good GM is or not.

 

[hockeydoug]

You're grasping at straws it seems. You think they didn't try to hire the best scouts, etc and just blindly went up to the draft board and picked random dudes? like wtf are you even talking about?

No straws, they punted on bringing in experienced hires, they valued continuity and some image garbage over experience and talent evaluation, by a metric-asse tonne. Keep in mind the business hires that navigated the media mess and Danny hired an outreach person who turned around and sued him not long after too.

Do you think drafting and development was average or better for the 10 years before Bowman was fired?

Hunter, KD, Faulkner, and Pilch in senior roles as newbies for the rebuild.

For most of the rest of department leadership and amateur scouting you have the likes of Hallin, Doneghy, Brooks May, Facca, McKellar, Contis, Anderson MacIver, Eaton, and Blomgren who have all been there for 10-15 years years or more I think.

Looks like rookies and mediocre calling the shots so far.

So if you think this is an accomplished staff that we should have full faith and confidence to put most of the eggs in the drafting and developing in, for the purpose of rebuilding, we'll agree to disagree.

 

[hockeydoug]

I think that he's saying the IT and Marketing Departments aren't up to industry standards. Who knows. The vague generalities combined with the rather boldness of claims make it all rather confusing to follow.

Hire experienced talent to run your rebuild instead of leaning on bleh and rookies?

Don't do crap that average and better gms haven't done

Bold indeed.

 

[MHO]

Hire experienced talent to run your rebuild instead of leaning on bleh and rookies?

Don't do crap that average and better gms haven't done

Bold indeed.

I could argue that hiring experienced talent in the NHL isn't always a good thing. I mean Stan Bowman is experienced and he got another job. The hockey world is still insulated and old boys clubby so I'm more for outsiders than having Lou Lamoriello run the rebuild.

I don't think quality experienced people are available.

 

[southsideIrish]

Yeah the waiting years to rebuild thing is horsespit, not when teams turn things around very quickly by being efficient organizations. Right now, this team ain't that and there's nothing to suggest any optimism.

Sadly these quotes on the blurb on espn's half-season "awards" article speaks volumes:

Most forsaken player: Connor Bedard​

The last thing you want to see from your franchise player in his second NHL season is the kind of vacant stare that Bedard has when discussing the trajectory of the Blackhawks, which at this point is akin to a malfunctioning bottle rocket. Even in those moments when he should be able to celebrate personal achievement -- like reaching 100 career points faster than any other teenaged player in NHL history -- his thoughts circle back to how bad the Blackhawks have been.

Chicago stripped the roster down to the foundation so it could acquire a player like Bedard in the draft, and yet the landscape remains barren.

Where's the Evgeni Malkin to his Sidney Crosby? The Nicklas Backstrom to his Ovechkin? The answer is "in future drafts," which probably isn't what Bedard wants to hear.

 

[ploppsdman]

Yeah Alex Nylander worked out really well. Genius move.

That was a prospect for prospect trade that was a loss at the start. Alex Nylander was not an "undervalued asset" IMO. He was a pond hockey player, but I've no issues with the spirit of the trade.

This is what Chicago will have to do with their D prospects.

However, this is this relevant to Davidson how?

 

[ploppsdman]

a little of column a little of column b. for what it's worth i got you pegged for neither of these. rather you evince a special blend of impotence, impatience, and arrogance peculiar to a certain kind of sports fan that roams the web in search of someone to yap inane business seminar self help crap like "know what you're good at" to and expect to be taken as a sage figure.

you are acting like you are having to defend the very concept of buying low lmao. no one on planet earth will ever argue that it's a bad thing under all circumstances to pursue young talent at a discount in hopes of striking on a bargain. no doubt kd will have to do that to build a winning club, and if he doesn't by the time he's shown the door it will be a large part of why. i don't have to make a catalog of every half-assed one time decent prospect to hit the waiver wire without a claim from the hawks to acknowledge that fact. i certainly don't have to do that and come here to cry about it five to six times a week and act offended and superior that everyone else isn't crying with me.

So, I don't have to defend "buying low" but when I'm annoyed Chicago isn't doing that with prospects (veterans, yes) I can't voice that on a Blackhawk message board?

Sounds like you're a wannabe, power thirsty moderator.

Back to the shadows with ye.

 

[hockeydoug]

I could argue that hiring experienced talent in the NHL isn't always a good thing. I mean Stan Bowman is experienced and he got another job. The hockey world is still insulated and old boys clubby so I'm more for outsiders than having Lou Lamoriello run the rebuild.

I don't think quality experienced people are available.

Completely agree on the hockey world and I find it commendable that Danny wanted to "Break the wheel" in terms of NHL culture...

but then he stopped after the top people and wanted to do a full tear down and rebuild.

The result is a shiny new inexperienced head on the good-ol-boy body.

They have almost no one who had any meaningful influence at another NHL club come over to help.

 

[statswatcher]

So, I don't have to defend "buying low" but when I'm annoyed Chicago isn't doing that with prospects (veterans, yes) I can't voice that on a Blackhawk message board?

no one said anything about what you can't do. you can certainly whine all day about all the excellent moves you would have made in your mind palace. i am well within my right to make fun of you for said whining. and thus here we are.

Sounds like you're a wannabe, power thirsty moderator.

i moderated a different website once. left primarily because the other mods were too strict funny enough. shit job. wouldn't recommend it. certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for this cesspit.

 

[hockeydoug]

repost delete

 

[Hawkaholic]

No straws, they punted on bringing in experienced hires, they valued continuity and some image garbage over experience and talent evaluation, by a metric-asse tonne. Keep in mind the business hires that navigated the media mess and Danny hired an outreach person who turned around and sued him not long after too.

Do you think drafting and development was average or better for the 10 years before Bowman was fired?

Hunter, KD, Faulkner, and Pilch in senior roles as newbies for the rebuild.

For most of the rest of department leadership and amateur scouting you have the likes of Hallin, Doneghy, Brooks May, Facca, McKellar, Contis, Anderson MacIver, Eaton, and Blomgren who have all been there for 10-15 years years or more I think.

Looks like rookies and mediocre calling the shots so far.

So if you think this is an accomplished staff that we should have full faith and confidence to put most of the eggs in the drafting and developing in, for the purpose of rebuilding, we'll agree to disagree.

I think the Hawks did a pretty decent job drafting throughout the years leading up the the rebuild. A few misses here and there, like every team, but not bad considering we were drafting in the late teens to late 20s every single year.

I could care less about Faulkner, Hunter, etc, they were DEI hires that have zero influence on decisions at the end of the day.

And here you are arguing that they didn't bring in experienced people, yet saying their scouts have been there for 10-15 years, which is it? lol

KD also isn't really a rookie, he's been in the business for many years.

I dont have full faith in any NHL staff, they all make mistakes, all the time. I'm not sure who you would have hired instead?

 

[x Tame Impala]

Yeah the waiting years to rebuild thing is horsespit, not when teams turn things around very quickly by being efficient organizations. Right now, this team ain't that and there's nothing to suggest any optimism.

Sadly these quotes on the blurb on espn's half-season "awards" article speaks volumes:

Most forsaken player: Connor Bedard​

The last thing you want to see from your franchise player in his second NHL season is the kind of vacant stare that Bedard has when discussing the trajectory of the Blackhawks, which at this point is akin to a malfunctioning bottle rocket. Even in those moments when he should be able to celebrate personal achievement -- like reaching 100 career points faster than any other teenaged player in NHL history -- his thoughts circle back to how bad the Blackhawks have been.

Chicago stripped the roster down to the foundation so it could acquire a player like Bedard in the draft, and yet the landscape remains barren.

Where's the Evgeni Malkin to his Sidney Crosby? The Nicklas Backstrom to his Ovechkin? The answer is "in future drafts," which probably isn't what Bedard wants to hear.

If we drafted Demidov he still wouldn’t be on this year’s roster and Bedard would still have few to no good options