we are so SOFT. We will never win like this

[TMLAM34]

Keefe doesn't have this 'best winning percentage' because of his coaching, most believe he has that distinction in spite of his coaching.
He and Dubas both walked into stacked situations and together have made a mess of it.

Yes that post wasn’t trying to defend Keefe at all, I think he’s been pretty trash.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

IMHO, I like tougher players, not fighters, just tougher, BUT, if that is not your best guys strength, then you had better be faster, more creative, more explosive than other teams. You need to score 6 per game. The only player who plays like that today is WN.

Nylander has made a career out of ducking hits and avoiding contact.

Robertson should be taking notes.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

If one tough player equals one round then we just need 4! This is so easy

Noel Acciari should at least count as half a round no?

 

[The Best Leafs Everr]

Well saves me money year after years since I made up my mind to only buy Leafs gears if they win.

 

[TMLAM34]

Well saves me money year after years since I made up my mind to only buy Leafs gears if they win.

I stopped going to games. Imagine paying premium and watching the game against the Kings. Pathetic.

 

[thusk]

Your best players need to lead by example. Auston and Mitch don’t have that in them.

Auston maybe if surrounded by the right people. Willie maybe. But not Mitch for sure.

Compare them to Stammer, Kuch and Point. Same jam is not there.

All the second tier plugs in the world won’t help overcome that.

IMHO, I like tougher players, not fighters, just tougher, BUT, if that is not your best guys strength, then you had better be faster, more creative, more explosive than other teams. You need to score 6 per game. The only player who plays like that today is WN.
It is unsuccessful to turn AM and MM and Knies etc into d first guys. Give up on that and turn race horses unbridled, these guys are not capable of both, they will NEVER be tough enough, strong enough to win playing D. We have our Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Lowe, now put Robertson Knies, Jarn, etc into motion....score 6 or 7 and let's have some fun.

Last 2 run

Marner had been on the ice for 47% of every ES goal leafs scored vs 29 % of every ES goal allowed facing top opposite line all gane long

Nylander had been on the ice for 33% of every leafs ES goal and 42 % of every ES goal allowed...


Difference of both

goal for marner > 14 % Nylander
Goal against marner < 13% Nylander

The funny thing is people was looking surprising nylander was playing with high level of energy in the offensive end... for sure he didn't waste any kind of energy in the defensive zone.

Exemple of a 30 sec shift

25 sec where he was in defensive end; stop working
25 sec in the offensive end where he working hard
Vs
Playing 50 sec at the same intensity, who is the softness player?

 

[ACC1224]

I stopped going to games. Imagine paying premium and watching the game against the Kings. Pathetic.

Any fan knows by looking at the schedule which games are the most likely to be dogs. The Kings game had disappointment written all over it.

 

[supermann_98]

We're not soft, and it has nothing to do with winning anyway.

In fact, many of our biggest issues right now spawned from attempts to counter that lazy narrative.

I wish I shared your always rosey disposition. If being soft has nothing to do with winning I'd counter either does xGF% and all that other analytical vomit you're constantly spewing to support your arguments on how great this Dubas built team is and how our overpaid core 4 is really appropriately paid.

In 2000-2001 the 7th seeded Leafs were swept in the regular season 5-0 by the #1 seeded Sens. In the playoffs the Leafs swept the Sens 4-0. If you watched that playoff series sweep you'd understand that the Leafs beat them with their defense and toughness, while the Sens were talented but soft outside of maybe Chris Neil.

Saying that being soft has nothing to do with winning shows you do not understand hockey, full stop

 

[Larcos_Unal]

What I've gotten confirmation on is that it doesn't matter who you bring in to add toughness, the balls have to come from the top guys: Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Nylander.

That's probably the softest, most timid top of a roster in the NHL. You cannot be all skill in the playoffs, not for 4 rounds at least...it'll eventually catch up to you.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

In 2000-2001 the 7th seeded Leafs were swept in the regular season 5-0 by the #1 seeded Sens. In the playoffs the Leafs swept the Sens 4-0. If you watched that playoff series sweep you'd understand that the Leafs beat them with their defense and toughness, while the Sens were talented but soft outside of maybe Chris Neil.

Leafs won that series because Cujo was insanely good, especially in the first two games. I don't think defense and toughness had as much of an impact as goaltending.

Neil didn't play in that series

 

[Niagara Bill]

Last 2 run

Marner had been on the ice for 47% of every ES goal leafs scored vs 29 % of every ES goal allowed facing top opposite line all gane long

Nylander had been on the ice for 33% of every leafs ES goal and 42 % of every ES goal allowed...


Difference of both

goal for marner > 14 % Nylander
Goal against marner < 13% Nylander

The funny thing is people was looking surprising nylander was playing with high level of energy in the offensive end... for sure he didn't waste any kind of energy in the defensive zone.

Exemple of a 30 sec shift

25 sec where he was in defensive end; stop working
25 sec in the offensive end where he working hard
Vs
Playing 50 sec at the same intensity, who is the softness player?

Results, 9 game point streak vs Marners ???

Gretzky Oilers were often outshot, but not out gunned.
When your team scares the poop out of the other team and coach, they rarely pinch and often backpetal quickly.
I am suggesting MM and AM be released from shot blocking and remaining in done and allow one to break out.
They should be receiving the puck at center not 30 ft from goal.
And stop the bs pp stuff with 3 guys standing still.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

More accurately, people see highlights on twitter or the occasional high-intensity game, they misjudge other teams and players and their "toughness" and clamor for them, and then when they come here and people start watching them every game, they realize what they actually are but don't want to admit they were wrong, so they blame the coach (or somehow, the GM) for "changing" them.

Just look at how many people are surprised the way the new additions play. Well, they're playing the way they've always played. Sure they'll occasionally go on a heater and pile up some points but this is what they are.
When we acquired these guys i stated i like the type of player Tre is targeting but did not like the individuals themselves because I've seen enough of them on their old teams.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Holy shit is this entire board in a meltdown over starting a season 5-3-1?

 

[Sypher04]

Just look at how many people are surprised the way the new additions play. Well, they're playing the way they've always played. Sure they'll occasionally go on a heater and pile up some points but this is what they are.
When we acquired these guys i stated i like the type of player Tre is targeting but did not like the individuals themselves because I've seen enough of them on their old teams.

I get what you’re saying but I don’t entirely agree with the “this is what they are claim”. Ive seen plenty of Domi and Bertuzzi to know they are underperforming. They don’t look right yet at all.

Klingberg has always been a gambler so that one I can see. Klingberg hasn’t been nearly as bad as many here claim but I’m not sure why anyone would think rehabilitating his defensive game would be immediate. It’ll be a process over the course of months. He still brings a lot of qualities we need but our mix is currently bad on the backend and that IF we were even healthy.

Reaves has been exactly as bad as I expected sadly. I didn’t however expect Kampf (badly overpaid as I think he is) to be this terrible.

Either way. Way too early to panic or act like we or individuals are final product of what we will get this year

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Who is Reaves intimidating? The other team is doing whatever they want when he hops over the bench and a tsunami of pucks is being sent at Woll.

 

[Arzak]

Everyone knows they're soft.
We've had this same thread every season for years, this isn't suddenly some type of great insight.

We're not soft, and it has nothing to do with winning anyway.

In fact, many of our biggest issues right now spawned from attempts to counter that lazy narrative.

You're saying it because you don't have an advanced stat representing leadership and balls. That hardly means it doesn't affect your chances of winning SC.


To use a parallel from combat sports - mental fortitude contributes approximately 20% to the overall result, unless you sh*t yourself. In that case its 100%.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Leafs won that series because Cujo was insanely good, especially in the first two games. I don't think defense and toughness had as much of an impact as goaltending.

Neil didn't play in that series

If Neil did play maybe they would’ve made it past the 4th game

 

[rumman]

Any fan knows by looking at the schedule which games are the most likely to be dogs. The Kings game had disappointment written all over it.

I take it you didn't use your tickets for the LA game then?

 

[PROUD PAPA]

I get what you’re saying but I don’t entirely agree with the “this is what they are claim”. Ive seen plenty of Domi and Bertuzzi to know they are underperforming. They don’t look right yet at all.

Klingberg has always been a gambler so that one I can see. Klingberg hasn’t been nearly as bad as many here claim but I’m not sure why anyone would think rehabilitating his defensive game would be immediate. It’ll be a process over the course of months. He still brings a lot of qualities we need but our mix is currently bad on the backend and that IF we were even healthy.

Reaves has been exactly as bad as I expected sadly. I didn’t however expect Kampf (badly overpaid as I think he is) to be this terrible.

Either way. Way too early to panic or act like we or individuals are final product of what we will get this year

Bertuzzi and Domi looked their absolute best in last years playoffs. They were genuinely impressive, so maybe people thought that's their normal level but IMO it was well above normal.
I do agree that they should get better and there's no point in panicking.

 

[ACC1224]

I take it you didn't use your tickets for the LA game then?

Not a chance. I wouldn't go on Halloween regardless but that game had stinker written all over it.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Jesus guys, its the first game back after a long road trip. Tranquillo.

 

[rumman]

Not a chance. I wouldn't go on Halloween regardless but that game had stinker written all over it.

back when I had seasons tickets I hated when Detroit came to town, back then their fan base would be present big time and it was embarrassing to be a Leaf fan in your own barn..........

 

[LeafGrief]

Holy shit is this entire board in a meltdown over starting a season 5-3-1?

Nobody would be panicking if we had gone to the third round last year. This season doesn't exist in a vacuum.

I also don't really think anyone besides the author of Editor in Leaf is panicking. Conversations this year are much more muted than the meltdowns that I recall in 2021 when we started slow after the MTL series. Then again, maybe that's just when I gave up on them and now treat this all with a sense of amusement rather than distress.

 

[mjd1001]

Holy shit is this entire board in a meltdown over starting a season 5-3-1?

Not the entire board, just those posting here about it. I'd say less than 50% of people are in a meltdown over the start and well under 50% of the people are posting that way. Actually, when I read the threads, I see a LOT of people saying stuff like 'its early' and they will turn things around..etc. So to answer your point, if you think the entire board is in a meltdown, you are only looking for that to make a comment on it.

As for WHY many of those people are posting that way....many fans want and expect the team to be better than it was last year. Last year they had 111 points this year they are playing like a 100 point team. Last year they were scoring goals at almost the same pace as this year, but again, this year they are a fraction behind last years place. And this year they are pacing to allow 30+ more goals than last year. Last year, they looked up in the standing at only 3 teams (they were 4th). Right now I think they are 11th.

All that can change, it can change in the course of less than a week. But why are people in meltdown? The optimist wants this team to be better than last year. In terms of points, goals scored, goals allowed, and position in the standings, they are worse in all of those areas. That is not a good thing for a fanbase that wants them to be BETTER in each of those areas.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Nobody would be panicking if we had gone to the third round last year. This season doesn't exist in a vacuum.

I also don't really think anyone besides the author of Editor in Leaf is panicking. Conversations this year are much more muted than the meltdowns that I recall in 2021 when we started slow after the MTL series. Then again, maybe that's just when I gave up on them and now treat this all with a sense of amusement rather than distress.

Agreed, it is hard to be emotionally invested in this team now vs in 2021.

Not the entire board, just those posting here about it. I'd say less than 50% of people are in a meltdown over the start and well under 50% of the people are posting that way. Actually, when I read the threads, I see a LOT of people saying stuff like 'its early' and they will turn things around..etc. So to answer your point, if you think the entire board is in a meltdown, you are only looking for that to make a comment on it.

As for WHY many of those people are posting that way....many fans want and expect the team to be better than it was last year. Last year they had 111 points this year they are playing like a 100 point team. Last year they were scoring goals at almost the same pace as this year, but again, this year they are a fraction behind last years place. And this year they are pacing to allow 30+ more goals than last year. Last year, they looked up in the standing at only 3 teams (they were 4th). Right now I think they are 11th.

All that can change, it can change in the course of less than a week. But why are people in meltdown? The optimist wants this team to be better than last year. In terms of points, goals scored, goals allowed, and position in the standings, they are worse in all of those areas. That is not a good thing for a fanbase that wants them to be BETTER in each of those areas.

Well the thing is, regular season performance doesn't mean anything and we all know it. They could have 130 points it doesn't matter. The Panthers win the presidents trophy and get swept in round 2. They squeak into the playoffs next year and go to finals.

As long as we make it, who cares? And we will make it.