we are so SOFT. We will never win like this

[Dekes For Days]

Even Sheldon Keefe said he hated the response from the team.

But that's impossible! I was told Keefe was the evil mastermind neutering everybody who stepped foot through this organization!
Keefe's comments don't necessarily mean what you want them to mean, but good to know we now think Keefe is a great coach and his words are gospel. You seem to have left out the parts where he mentioned that many of the players weren't aware what actually happened, and pointing out all the previous times we've responded to incidents.

Keefe didn't like the response? That's fine. You didn't like the response? That's fine. I didn't like the response either. Mostly our response to play like garbage and lose.
What's less fine are these derogatory statements being thrown around about the team and players, and false claims about what our team and other teams do.

ROR pretty much made it clear he wasn't looking to come back a day or 2 after Keefe was given the thumbs up by BT.

There were suggestions that O'Rielly wasn't leaning towards coming back as far back as locker cleanout, and it became more likely as free agency approached and other options became known, at a time when other team decisions are also made. You're trying to connect two things that have no connection, just because they both occurred at a similar time when a wide range of hockey decisions occur. O'Rielly made it clear why he left, multiple times, straight from his mouth. It had nothing to do with Keefe, and he's never said anything bad about him.

If you think a guy who complained about adjustments to their system

That's not what he said.

This is the physicality, passion, stick up for each other teams (plus florida) that we need to beat

So is this:



It's really easy to pick and choose highlights to create a narrative.

I play house league and even we know who the dirty players are and you can bet your ass if they pull some crap we get in their face.

Oh yes, I'm sure you're pounding on people after every single incident in beer league. And surely your experiences in beer league are 1:1 transferrable to the NHL, and a higher level of hockey than anybody on here has been involved in, making you the ultimate guru of hockey.

Write my name down in your mind and never quote one of my posts again, thanks.

You're literally the one that quoted my post. I'm just pointing out that your claims were wrong.

 

[Niagara Bill]

But that's impossible! I was told Keefe was the evil mastermind neutering everybody who stepped foot through this organization!
Keefe's comments don't necessarily mean what you want them to mean, but good to know we now think Keefe is a great coach and his words are gospel. You seem to have left out the parts where he mentioned that many of the players weren't aware what actually happened, and pointing out all the previous times we've responded to incidents.

Keefe didn't like the response? That's fine. You didn't like the response? That's fine. I didn't like the response either. Mostly our response to play like garbage and lose.
What's less fine are these derogatory statements being thrown around about the team and players, and false claims about what our team and other teams do.

There were suggestions that O'Rielly wasn't leaning towards coming back as far back as locker cleanout, and it became more likely as free agency approached and other options became known, at a time when other team decisions are also made. You're trying to connect two things that have no connection, just because they both occurred at a similar time when a wide range of hockey decisions occur. O'Rielly made it clear why he left, multiple times, straight from his mouth. It had nothing to do with Keefe, and he's never said anything bad about him.

That's not what he said.

So is this:



It's really easy to pick and choose highlights to create a narrative.

Oh yes, I'm sure you're pounding on people after every single incident in beer league. And surely your experiences in beer league are 1:1 transferrable to the NHL, and a higher level of hockey than anybody on here has been involved in, making you the ultimate guru of hockey.

You're literally the one that quoted my post. I'm just pointing out that your claims were wrong.

Are you Shanny just defending the indefensible?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Are you Shanny just defending the indefensible?

Ah, I see we've moved on from the "do you even play bro?" to the "who are you? [Insert random person you dislike]?". I wonder what classic deflection will be next.
If I was Shanahan, our offseason wouldn't have been the tire fire it ended up being.

 

[notbias]

Big bad Florida bullying other teams again.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

But that's impossible! I was told Keefe was the evil mastermind neutering everybody who stepped foot through this organization!
Keefe's comments don't necessarily mean what you want them to mean, but good to know we now think Keefe is a great coach and his words are gospel. You seem to have left out the parts where he mentioned that many of the players weren't aware what actually happened, and pointing out all the previous times we've responded to incidents.

Keefe didn't like the response? That's fine. You didn't like the response? That's fine. I didn't like the response either. Mostly our response to play like garbage and lose.
What's less fine are these derogatory statements being thrown around about the team and players, and false claims about what our team and other teams do.

There were suggestions that O'Rielly wasn't leaning towards coming back as far back as locker cleanout, and it became more likely as free agency approached and other options became known, at a time when other team decisions are also made. You're trying to connect two things that have no connection, just because they both occurred at a similar time when a wide range of hockey decisions occur. O'Rielly made it clear why he left, multiple times, straight from his mouth. It had nothing to do with Keefe, and he's never said anything bad about him.

That's not what he said.

Ok...can you decipher what this statement he made to TSN Overdrive was about then?

"We kind of dug ourselves a hole quick and didn't respond. There's so many things we could have done differently. It's frustrating. We could have gave that series a better chance. That's just the way the game goes sometimes. When you get into these moments where it's challenging, you have to find a way to pull something out of each other and find a way to give a bit more. Against Tampa, we did that.. again - there's so many things we could have done different." - O'Reilly on the Leafs' flawed strategy against the Panthers

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ok...can you decipher what this statement he made to TSN Overdrive was about then?

It's not that hard to decipher. You look back and wish you had done things differently. Pretty common sentiment for a losing team, and it's much more personal than a shot at the coach. He even contrasts it against the Tampa series, so weird for somebody to take that as systemic problems. What he doesn't say is anything about the "system", or anything about Keefe, and I'm not sure how you went from pretty vague, common post-series statements to some conspiracy about Keefe.
Again, he's made it clear multiple times why he chose Nashville, and it wasn't about Keefe. Seems weird to call O'Rielly a liar, just because you don't like Keefe.

 

[Jojalu]

Ok...can you decipher what this statement he made to TSN Overdrive was about then?

"We kind of dug ourselves a hole quick and didn't respond. There's so many things we could have done differently. It's frustrating. We could have gave that series a better chance. That's just the way the game goes sometimes. When you get into these moments where it's challenging, you have to find a way to pull something out of each other and find a way to give a bit more. Against Tampa, we did that.. again - there's so many things we could have done different." - O'Reilly on the Leafs' flawed strategy against the Panthers

That is a pretty generic response heard from almost every team in every sport after losing in the playoffs.

People will read into it what they want.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

It's not that hard to decipher. You look back and wish you had done things differently. Pretty common sentiment for a losing team, and it's much more personal than a shot at the coach. He even contrasts it against the Tampa series, so weird for somebody to take that as systemic problems. What he doesn't say is anything about the "system", or anything about Keefe, and I'm not sure how you went from pretty vague, common post-series statements to some conspiracy about Keefe.
Again, he's made it clear multiple times why he chose Nashville, and it wasn't about Keefe. Seems weird to call O'Rielly a liar, just because you don't like Keefe.

So coaches are not responsible for the team adjusting to different situation?...got it. Did I say he had a problem with Keefe's system or his ability to adjust?

 

[Gary Nylund]

This was posted in the Marner/Nylander thread but is very much on point ITT. I've said it many times before - Marner is the poster boy for this team, should have traded the "super crazy elite" lily-livered creampuff while we had the chance. Marner makes Kessel look like Wendel Clark FFS, how is it even possible to be so gutless?

Here is Marners fear of contact.... Watch him completely panic and throw this puck away when he thinks someone is gonna hit him. These are the same types of plays he constantly makes in the playoffs over the past few years:

 

[Niagara Bill]

Ah, I see we've moved on from the "do you even play bro?" to the "who are you? [Insert random person you dislike]?". I wonder what classic deflection will be next.
If I was Shanahan, our offseason wouldn't have been the tire fire it ended up being.

But yet you continue to defend the indefensible. Hmmmm.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So coaches are not responsible for the team adjusting to different situation?

Players are responsible for execution.
It's a really vague statement, that is commonly said after losing, and usually refers to criticisms they have of their own game and how they wish they had done something different to get a better result. You have assumed that it is about Keefe, based on nothing, and then concocted this whole theory about why O'Rielly left, despite the fact that O'Rielly himself has told you why he left, and it has nothing to do with Keefe or any of that.

Did I say he had a problem with Keefe's system or his ability to adjust?

This you?

a guy who complained about adjustments to their system

 

[mjd1001]

The thing that made the Buffalo game even worse is who they were playing against.

1.) the Leafs should have been in that mindset to come out flying, giving it 100% all out from the start.
2.) the Sabres were on the road (albeit not that far) and at the back end of a B2b playing the night before.
3.) Sabres without Samuelsson (probably their best D-man in their own zone who occasionally is given even more minutes that Dahlin)
4.) Sabres were without last year 30+ goal scorer Cozens
5.) Sabres were without Quinn, their best rookie from last year and a former top 10 overall pick
6.) Sabres were playing a rookie, former 6th round pick undersized goalie, who has been hurt for the last few weeks and that game was his first game back after an injury...who in his short career has a .898 save percentage.
7.) Tuch scored over 30 for the Sabres last year also. He looks to be playing hurt, missed training camp time, missed a few in-season practices, and he's getting less minutes than last year. He had a total of 1 goal so far this season before Saturday night.

They even went with 7 D-men and only 11 forwards because they had to play a rookie AHL callup on D who was in his first ever NHL game.

Those were the reasons I was expecting a leafs blow-out win. I was wrong obviously

They didn't just lose. They lost to a tired, hurt, shorthanded team playing in YOUR building on back to back nights.

 

[keonsbitterness]

There is something to the soft argument. The "old days" are gone, but it's still a contact game played in a confined space. Sooner or later a situation will arise where multiple players on the ice need to physically react (or even overreact) to something your opponent did. Even something as simple as getting into a few more scrums could do the trick. You can't play 82 games plus playoffs never or rarely releasing your emotions. This isn't baseball.

 

[Whacky5]

This was posted in the Marner/Nylander thread but is very much on point ITT. I've said it many times before - Marner is the poster boy for this team, should have traded the "super crazy elite" lily-livered creampuff while we had the chance. Marner makes Kessel look like Wendel Clark FFS, how is it even possible to be so gutless?

So weak man. And I blame the coach. The only one that should be carrying that puck in the offensive zone is Willy. Marner is too slow of a skater. There's no fear there with opposing players. When Willy winds up and skates everyone backs up. I just don't get the execution of plays. Either some players have an entitlement in that locker room or the coach is an eff'n moron.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There is something to the soft argument. The "old days" are gone, but it's still a contact game played in a confined space. Sooner or later a situation will arise where multiple players on the ice need to physically react (or even overreact) to something your opponent did. Even something as simple as getting into a few more scrums could do the trick. You can't play 82 games plus playoffs never or rarely releasing your emotions. This isn't baseball.

Without passion, you can't go deep in the playoffs. Period.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Players are responsible for execution.
It's a really vague statement, that is commonly said after losing, and usually refers to criticisms they have of their own game and how they wish they had done something different to get a better result. You have assumed that it is about Keefe, based on nothing, and then concocted this whole theory about why O'Rielly left, despite the fact that O'Rielly himself has told you why he left, and it has nothing to do with Keefe or any of that.

This you?

Do you honestly believe that ROR would say I am leaving because I think Keefe is a shit coach? Do you? FFS man....it seems he didn't like the spotlight here along with the coach being subpar. I just found it odd that as soon as it was confirmed by BT that Keefe was coming back, ROR starts talking about how they failed to adjust and you think I am being conspiratorial.

Was the ratio between not liking the spotlight vs Keefe probably skewed towards spotlight? Probably...but I still believe he didn't like Keefe based on comments he made to the media.

 

[rumman]

Yeah playing in a contract year usually brings the best out

perspective............

what happened to all those gritty players Trev brought in this past summer

they were exposed to the Leaf culture.............

 

[Dekes For Days]

Do you honestly believe that ROR would say I am leaving because I think Keefe is a shit coach?

You seem to think he would, since you're claiming that that is what those words somehow mean.
I don't think he would, since there's absolutely zero evidence that O'Rielly thinks Keefe is a bad coach, and he's explicitly told us why he left.

it seems he didn't like the spotlight here along with the coach being subpar.

It seems like he didn't like the spotlight here, but he hasn't said anything bad about the coach.

I just found it odd that as soon as it was confirmed by BT that Keefe was coming back, ROR starts talking about how they failed to adjust and you think I am being conspiratorial.

That's not even true. That's not when those comments were made. They were like weeks apart, and O'Rielly's came first, so I'm not sure how you think it's a response. I am also not sure what you find odd about decisions on both players and staff happening in June. That's when they usually happen. It doesn't suggest any connection just because news is coming out at a busy time for news.

What's conspirational is picking out a common, vague statement that is commonly made as a self-criticism after losing, from an interview where he makes it pretty clear that he's talking about himself and his teammates, and making the random assumption that he's actually talking about something else. Then attributing him leaving to that other thing, despite the fact that he's explicitly talked about the reasons that he chose Nashville, and that thing has never been identified as a reason. Just because you really want it to be because of that other thing.

 

[thinkblue]

Do you honestly believe that ROR would say I am leaving because I think Keefe is a shit coach? Do you? FFS man....it seems he didn't like the spotlight here along with the coach being subpar. I just found it odd that as soon as it was confirmed by BT that Keefe was coming back, ROR starts talking about how they failed to adjust and you think I am being conspiratorial.

Was the ratio between not liking the spotlight vs Keefe probably skewed towards spotlight? Probably...but I still believe he didn't like Keefe based on comments he made to the media.

ROR was on Real Kyper and Bourne 2 weeks ago, he said Keefe was a brilliant hockey mind, citing the way he see's the game, his details, and teaching. This can be put to bed.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Maple Leafs' 2023-24 Offensive Evolution - The Hockey Writers Toronto Maple Leafs Latest News, Analysis & More

Have the Toronto Maple Leafs changed the way they play this season? What do hockey analysts Elliotte Friedman and Kevin Bieksa say about it?

thehockeywriters.com

With its bottom two lines, the Maple Leafs are engaging a more “direct style.” That style involves getting pucks deep, aggressive forechecking, and making life tough for opponents in the offensive zone.

The Leafs are fifth in hits delivered so far this year.

How long have fans lamented the forwards reluctance to hammer down on defensemen and go hard to the net? Dump, chase, pound, and grind hasn't been part of this team's identity for a very long time. That's not just a personnel issue.

That's game planning.

One has to assume the direction to play a more physical game is coming from above. The only difference between this year and the last five is the GM. Treliving signed players that brought a physical element to the game.

Then told Keefe to play them hard.

The result is a team that has been a lot more physical. Fans are no longer being treated to the wimpy pushovers of years past. Bringing more snot has definitely been a step in the right direction.

Now if they could only do something about all those hits against.

 

[Maple Leaf]

ROR was on Real Kyper and Bourne 2 weeks ago, he said Keefe was a brilliant hockey mind, citing the way he see's the game, his details, and teaching. This can be put to bed.

Server migration (Xenforo Cloud) is scheduled for Monday, December 4th at 12 pm GMT/UTC. We will experience up to 5 hours of downtime. The board will be active as soon as the process is complete. Thanks for the patience.

• Why bash him

 

[Trapper]

Maple Leafs' 2023-24 Offensive Evolution - The Hockey Writers Toronto Maple Leafs Latest News, Analysis & More

Have the Toronto Maple Leafs changed the way they play this season? What do hockey analysts Elliotte Friedman and Kevin Bieksa say about it?

thehockeywriters.com

With its bottom two lines, the Maple Leafs are engaging a more “direct style.” That style involves getting pucks deep, aggressive forechecking, and making life tough for opponents in the offensive zone.

The Leafs are fifth in hits delivered so far this year.

How long have fans lamented the forwards reluctance to hammer down on defensemen and go hard to the net? Dump, chase, pound, and grind hasn't been part of this team's identity for a very long time. That's not just a personnel issue.

That's game planning.

One has to assume the direction to play a more physical game is coming from above. The only difference between this year and the last five is the GM. Treliving signed players that brought a physical element to the game.

Then told Keefe to play them hard.

The result is a team that has been a lot more physical. Fans are no longer being treated to the wimpy pushovers of years past. Bringing more snot has definitely been a step in the right direction.

Now if they could only do something about all those hits against.

The game changes in the playoffs. The 82 game freewheeling style gets locked down and you have to bring a strong forecheck/dump and chase to your arsenal.

If people and management can’t see that, I don’t know what else to say.

And if the core doesn’t want to, with intensity and purpose, you probably lose early in the playoffs and often.

 

[darrylsittler27]

You need to understand all management needs to do is get the majority of fans to drink Kool aid and who cares? This is a team going nowhere in the playoffs..again! Shh, don't tell anyone.

 

[ACC1224]

You need to understand all management needs to do is get the majority of fans to drink Kool aid and who cares? This is a team going nowhere in the playoffs..again! Shh, don't tell anyone.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Gilmour1996]

You need to understand all management needs to do is get the majority of fans to drink Kool aid and who cares? This is a team going nowhere in the playoffs..again! Shh, don't tell anyone.

They'll be going somewhere in the playoffs. First going home and then going golfing. However, this assessment is based on the current coach and player personnel. The team might be different come playoff time. Hopefully their issues will be addressed.