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WCSF Gm 5 ... too little too late

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Herby said:
Buddy,

Very valid points about the injuries, but teams are so desperate for a guy like Gaborik that they are willing to roll the dice, especially coming off a dominant playoffs. He is certainly the type of player that could put a team over the top. Guys with his skillset just don't hit UFA much anymore.

As for Richards, well you guessed it, I disagree. People are always quick to throw out Calgary and Edmonton, and perhaps if MR had two years left you would be right, but teams like Cgy and Edm, internally atleast, have to feel like they will be contenders in the next four years and the last thing a contending team needs is 34 year old Mike Richards (there is a scary thought) taking up all that cap space right as the team is ready to contend, look at the Kings for further proof we had Ryan Smyth a guy who could barely move taking up $6 million in cap space right as the team was ready to make a move towards contending, and had Smyth not been selfish and wanted out the Kings probably wouldn't have had the space to make the moves in 2012 that lead them to the cup. And you mention Horcoff being traded, Horcoff had two years and $11 million left, quite a bit different than 6 years at $34.5 left. Horcoff's contract was bad, MR's is hideous.

Let's just pretend for a second that MR was an UFA on July 1st, do you think anyone would offer him a six year, $34 million contract? I feel like the answer is an obvious no, so why would they give up assets for him? There very well could be a trade, but it's not going to be the Kings getting back a young defenseman to help us, it's going to be Dean swapping MR for another bad contract, and I am really not sure that helps the Kings, I'd rather just have the free almost $6 mill to spend.
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Re: Gaborik

How many teams fit the bill of contender (this assumes Gaborik wants to play for a contender, not just a playoff team), have cap space to sign him and are willing to roll the dice on the injury history? That is the bottom line. I would guess you can count them on one hand. The Kings have a lot to offer Gaborik and I'm sure DL isn't going to go all Michael Cammalleri on him especially after these playoffs.

Re: Richards

The one thing I've come to realize with DL is to expect the unexpected. We'll see what happens but I wouldn't be surprised to see Richards packaged with somebody else in return for a defender in a similar predicament. A reclamation project of sorts (hey, we have a poster with that name :) ). Maybe a deal where the Kings retain salary (I'm speaking from ignorance on this issue as it relates to the cap)? I really don't know but I think it is highly unlikely he is bought out. That isn't DL's style and I think the last thing he wants to do is go to Uncle Phil with hat in hand asking for him to write a check for a dying horse. If he wants to move him (and that remains to be seen), he'll find him a home. Cough, Florida, cough. Cough, Phoenix, Cough. DL could polish a turd so if there is anyone who is going to sell this used car, it is him.
 
Winger23 said:
Mitchell and RR kill penalties in which I think the ducks were 4 of 7 in this series or something like that. Yes they are slow, but Mitchell is quite good on the PK. Having to have voynov and muzzin kill penalties is hurting....
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Those two are severely missing on the pk, and it has really shown . I think with the exception of that breakdown in the neutral zone that lead to that 2 on1 pp goal by Seleane, ALL the Ducks pp goals have been right around the net within a few feet.That's their area, clearing guys out so they can;t get at loose pucks.Watching Greene and Schultz trying to do the same thing is just painful to watch and has failed at least once in every game since game 1.
 
I'm really intrigued with what happens this offseason and I said before it's a blessing that we've gone this deep to really see our weaknesses.

That said, we're not dead yet. I feel good. GKG!
 
Yup, it's just funny to see Doughty always being direct and honest. Even when he doesn't have to be.
 
Herby said:
So you think trading Richards for Phaneuf or Richards for Campbell would be a positive for the Kings?

If a trade happens it's going to be bad contract for bad contract.

I'd still prefer the free cap space rather than taking on a bad contract. Lombardi delivered AEG a cup, he gets a mulligan with this buy out.
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I would and could argue that it would be a positive, I think both of those guys would have more of an impact at their respective roles than Richards arguably has in his moving forward with us, if the right deal could be agreed upon.
 
Buddy The Elf said:
I hope he gets shelled the next two games and Boudreau's head explodes and BBQ sauce flies all over the upper deck of the Honda Center.
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We got three by him, and most nights, especially in the playoffs will win you many games. The Duck fans are in total denial that none of the 3 goals were his fault.:laugh:
 
I'll say it once again: Not using one of the two buyouts provided by the lockout which screwed us with the lowered cap will haunt Lombardi and, by extension, us fans for years to come.

There is no way out of Brown's contract which is going to look bad sooner rather than later. Richards' already looks horrendous and isn't going to be getting better anytime sooon. Only way I see it making sense for him to stay is if they think Carter can't be without him...then you look at it like $2MM of that cap hit is going to Carter's contract and Richards is actually a $4MM guy. Pretty asinine though.

The lockout really hurt this team's plans for the future. The long-term contracts they handed out as rewards for 2012 can't be argued with since you aren't going to let Quick or Brown walk, but the cap coming down really hurts in light of Richards' collapse.

The contracts to Brown and Quick could look pretty bad in a few years time. Richards' is horrible now. This team can not go into the future with all three of these contracts. I don't care about the cap going up as Doughty and Kopitar are going to need to get paid and you can't frontload the hell out of these deal anymore to lower the cap hit.

Look at how Anaheim paid out the ass for Getzlaf and Perry. Kopitar and Doughty will command those type of cap hits. Anaheim is paying nothing, however, to guys like Bonino, their goaltending duo next season, their best defenseman (Lindholm) in my opinion and DSP, Cogliano etc...

Kings HAVE to develop young talent and get guys on ELCs to contribute to the big club. You identify the core of this team (11/8/77/32) and then go from there. The giant contracts to 23 and 10 just can not be allowed to remain on the books. Nothing will be done about Brown's so that leaves Richards. To be honest, that Quick contract is going to bite them in the ass too. Rare is the giant, long-term contract to a goalie that works out. I'd prefer that money going to the blueline. What have the past few SC-winning goalies been making at the time they won the Cup? I know Crawford, Quick and Niemi weren't making jack and then cashed in afterwards with Fleury probably not breaking the bank either in '09. Giguere won in '07, got paid and then fell off the face of the earth. It is a really dangerous game man.
 
Herby said:
Sorry to single you out, but it just shocks me that someone would actually want 10 and 77 together in any capacity. Like I tell RP, they are like bleach and ammonia when paired together.
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Richards = Ammonia + Carter = Bleach + Gaborik = Metallic Oxide

EXPLOSION ON CONTACT!
 
BigKing said:
I'll say it once again: Not using one of the two buyouts provided by the lockout which screwed us with the lowered cap will haunt Lombardi and, by extension, us fans for years to come.

There is no way out of Brown's contract which is going to look bad sooner rather than later. Richards' already looks horrendous and isn't going to be getting better anytime sooon. Only way I see it making sense for him to stay is if they think Carter can't be without him...then you look at it like $2MM of that cap hit is going to Carter's contract and Richards is actually a $4MM guy. Pretty asinine though.

The lockout really hurt this team's plans for the future. The long-term contracts they handed out as rewards for 2012 can't be argued with since you aren't going to let Quick or Brown walk, but the cap coming down really hurts in light of Richards' collapse.

The contracts to Brown and Quick could look pretty bad in a few years time. Richards' is horrible now. This team can not go into the future with all three of these contracts. I don't care about the cap going up as Doughty and Kopitar are going to need to get paid and you can't frontload the hell out of these deal anymore to lower the cap hit.

Look at how Anaheim paid out the ass for Getzlaf and Perry. Kopitar and Doughty will command those type of cap hits. Anaheim is paying nothing, however, to guys like Bonino, their goaltending duo next season, their best defenseman (Lindholm) in my opinion and DSP, Cogliano etc...

Kings HAVE to develop young talent and get guys on ELCs to contribute to the big club. You identify the core of this team (11/8/77/32) and then go from there. The giant contracts to 23 and 10 just can not be allowed to remain on the books. Nothing will be done about Brown's so that leaves Richards. To be honest, that Quick contract is going to bite them in the ass too. Rare is the giant, long-term contract to a goalie that works out. I'd prefer that money going to the blueline. What have the past few SC-winning goalies been making at the time they won the Cup? I know Crawford, Quick and Niemi weren't making jack and then cashed in afterwards with Fleury probably not breaking the bank either in '09. Giguere won in '07, got paid and then fell off the face of the earth. It is a really dangerous game man.
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"what you're worth" and "what you're paid" are two different things, though. How often will it happen that a good-to-great goalie will win a cup and NOT get paid? I think in the next couple of years when you see a champion get a 2nd cup from the pool of current contenders that theory goes out the window. I know it became a little bit popular to say 'goalies don't matter' when Philly made the finals but look at all of that in retrospect--we can say Crawford was Chicago's weak link but he's proving to be a playoff performer. Quick had an amazing 2012 and a Conn Smythe, how could you not pay him? MAYBE the Ducks do it this year with Gibson and it will at least momentarily prove your point, but then what? All the top teams will have a surefire #1 goalie that is getting paid at least what he's worth. Quick's contract is actually a bargain in money, gamble in years, and compare that to Lundqvist's contract. At least we know Quick has been money in the clutch once. I guess long story short, I disagree on the Quick contract, and I hate when people talk about how bad something will be in the future until they're either right or wrong. It seems like people (not you in particular) want to yearly suggest this. Quick's contract will not be the one to hamstring us.

What would you do? Let Quick go and roll with Jones until it's time to pay him too?

I agree with you that the Brown and Richards contracts are the more dangerous game. Personally, I think Brown bounces back, and I think Richards is 50-50 depending on what's actually going on with him right now. Regardless, we cant give that money to a 4C, so I also agree that Brown is here to stay, Richards may be bought out depending on what his deal is.

Also agreed that we may need to start working that cheap youth labor in. Toffoli and Pearson are godsends right now. I can imagine bringing up Andreoff/Shore/Weal in the coming year or two along with Gravel/Forbort/McNabb. Those alone will keep us good for the time being, just have to keep repeating the cycle. We may have a casualty or two along the way (Voynov/Martinez? Stoll?), but I don't think our cap issues are as overblown as they're being made out to be. We shed one 'bad' contract, we're fine, because keep in mind what comes off the books after this season.
 
Quick is the best goalie on the planet. You don't sign him for a couple year deal. Especially coming off a season in which he displayed arguably one of the best goalie performances of all time. Don't get why his contract is always analyzed so heavily.
 
Reclamation Project said:
Quick is the best goalie on the planet. You don't sign him for a couple year deal. Especially coming off a season in which he displayed arguably one of the best goalie performances of all time. Don't get why his contract is always analyzed so heavily.
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And he then followed that up with last year's brilliant postseason, and helped lead us back from the brink against San Jose this year. Its going to be a long long time before we need to legitimately discuss Quick's deal.
 
Ollie Weeks said:
And he then followed that up with last year's brilliant postseason, and helped lead us back from the brink against San Jose this year. Its going to be a long long time before we need to legitimately discuss Quick's deal.
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But hey, I'm sure we could also afford more players if Doughty and Kopitar's money was off the books too. Right?

Quick is the best goalie this franchise has ever had and will get his number retired and a statue will be erected out front of him. Guy's a stud. After all the **** that has been in net, we should all be thankful to have him in net. Case closed.
 
Let's not forget that even though he's every religion's deity in net that Gibson is young. His strength might be mental, but he's only got a few NHL starts. Get to him. Get dirty in front of him. Play like the Sharks series where he knows we're not going to back down. We already put three past him last night not counting posts and his D bailing him out and if it weren't for the Getzlaf save we'd have scored on him again the other night. He's not unbreakable. He was pissed coming off last night which is great because I love the fire, reminds me of Quick, but three goals is enough to win a game. If we score three tomorrow and win, he suddenly looks a lot less immortal. Then Boudreau is out of cards to play and he potentially becomes a guy that can break a rookie goalie. Not to mention on many of his saves he was looking a different direction. You have to be good to be lucky as well, but he's been playing with a horseshoe up his ass. Let's break it.
 
Let's see Gibson get a full year under his belt. Then we can line up to ******* him. As of right now he's played two Playofff games, and gave up three goals in one of them. I'm not impressed at all.
 
No one deserves a ten year contract, especially a goalie. Goalies are so volatile. It's not even because it's quick, no one should be signed more than 5 years.


If they signed quick for 5 years, and in the third year, fourth year they gave him an extension. That's cool.

I'm just not cool with long term contracts, it handcuffs a Gm if a player falls off completely.
 
No need to get so defensive about Quick. I didn't say that you don't pay the man but, unfortunately, you have to step up and pay the guy after he delivers the Cup, much like Chicago did with Crawford and possibly would have with Niemi if they weren't so up against it. It's basically the downside of winning: the players that played the biggest part are going to get paid and it's up to the GM to pick the right ones to pay.

Chicago obviously chose the right ones when they jettisoned much of the 2010 team: Kane/Toews/Keith/Seabrook/Sharp. They bowed out in the 1st round two years in a row--although they went 7 games with the eventual WC Champ and then got bounced after a 100 point season and the Hossa injury--and then won the whole thing again. It remains to be seen if they will be able to do it again though by adding the large cap hit in net going forward.

I'm not sitting here saying that this team is better off without Quick. His contract is frightening though due to the term and you are simply ignoring history and wanting to believe it will all be okay if you think the term is perfectly fine.

This team won the Cup with low cap hits for the Conn Smythe winner and the captain who was around a point-per-game. You can throw in Voynov's low number into that equation as well.

Fast forward two seasons and you've got nobody of significance on a low cap hit except for Muzzin/Pearson/Toffoli and arguably Williams and the veteran defensemen vs. market value. That is the making of a team built to win right now and not necessarily for the future, unless all those on significant cap hits are just entering their primes. Unfortunately, Richards is not entering his prime and Brown does not look like it either.

The Richards contract needs to be jettisoned this off season via the buyout or, at the least, another bad contract that ends quickly. A second round exit will be another year taking a step backwards with little cap space to improve upon an aging roster.
 
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