Post-Game Talk: WCQF GM5 | Canucks lose to Predators | 1-2 (Zadorov) | Back to Nashville

[Slapshot_11]

I think it was a mistake not to challenge it too. Definitely had a case and it was clearly a potential turning point.

I've hated the penalty rule from day 1 though. Isn't the point of challanges to try and get the call right more often? Why not just make it so if you lose the challenge, you lose your right to challenge for the rest of the game?

That's what I was thinking too

You shouldn't be punished for trying to get a call right

 

[nuxnux1]

I'm 5'10" 175lb and I would get my head caved in on my first shift. I have no idea how he plays at that weight.

Petey has the type of body that will physically mature in this late 20s, guy probably hasn’t sprouted a single chest hair yet

 

[Slapshot_11]

50/50 play you moron our pk has been 80/20 so challenge it

f***ing idiot

 

[MS]

Pettersson is clearly the guy that falls right in the crosshairs on this. Justifiably so, as our supposed "superstar difference-maker" who isn't make a positive difference at all right now. Even on the powerplay.


But there's an element of this that is deeply frustrating, in that it's clearly not working with Hoglander and Mikheyev either. You've gotta switch things up. Which Tocchet has been so hesitant to do. Outside of little bench-shortening here and there in crunch time. But it's clearly hurting those guys too.

They need to just split these guys up. Stick Suter between the wingers, get Petey back on the Lotto Line full time, and hope and pray that he perks up a bit and finds something. Because often the case is...JT Bozo is the "emotional engine" of this team. But scoring-wise...this team goes as Pettersson goes. And if he's not going...it's not good.

There's just an enormous gulf in the offensive potency of this team between when we get "100Pt Pace" Petey vs the "30Pt Pace" Petey we're getting in this series. And were getting down the stretch. That's not the sort of gap that you can expect Middle-6ers/Bottom-6ers to pick up the slack on. That's an entire "1st line caliber player" margin of difference.

No argument - that line isn’t working and it’s nuts that they’re keeping going with it.

I still feel the best thing is to play Blueger with Joshua and Garland and put Lindholm with Pettersson so he actually has a legit finisher on his line.

 

[biturbo19]

Nothing moves faster than the puck. With proper use of the neutral zone to generate speed, they could create more rush chances. Right now, the forwards and defense are spread out, and they aren't generating any speed through the neutral zone with quick and short passes. It's all telegraphed stretch passes that are being picked off, relying on broken plays

That's not really what's happening though.

That adage is precisely about those sort of long stretch passes. Which Nashville are completely shutting down. That's how this team has generated speed through the neutral zone against teams that are far more "loose" in their own neutral zone play.

But when a team is playing disciplined "clog the middle" hockey like Nashville...the team's lack of real breakout speed stands out like a sore thumb. It's just endlessly guys being forced to carry the puck up the wing, slowly, isolated and contained...where dump 'n chase becomes the only real zone entry option. We just don't have the sort of fast players who can blitz through the neutral zone setup and make entries toward the middle of the ice that open up more options with control. Our "controlled entries" are largely quarantined to the wall high in the zone because there's just not enough speed to jack up defenders angles and threaten otherwise. Which limits options and often just leads to a dump and chase from there.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I’ll take my chances on 50/50 call every time when our PK is 80%.

Yeah. Looking into it. Challenge, challenge, challenge unless you are near 100% it is not a goal. Goalie interference challenges are pretty much a coin flip. 12 out of 24 goalie interference challenges were overturned in 2022. What’s interesting is that there were 42 of 80 overturned goalie inference challenges in 2023. Coaches were taking more chances and it didn’t affect the chances. Assuming an 80% penalty kill there 100% chance of a tie game if you don’t challenge versus roughly 50% leading, 40% tie, and 10% of now losing.

 

[afrocentric]

Resigning Hronek at more than 6.25 would be an error.

He seemed to make boneheaded plays constantly when he feels any pressure. Whether its suiciding passing to hughes when they are getting pressured, or that awful icing of the puck after a tv time out because he didnt want to take some contact that led to a goal.

Do not cripple the cap structure for this player.

 

[nuxnux1]

That's what I was thinking too

You shouldn't be punished for trying to get a call right

Should get one freebie a game

 

[Jay26]

It seems with the playoff portion of the season, the value of some players have shifted around.
I wonder what would have happened if contract talks actually waited until off season as EP initially wanted.
Maybe could have gotten a better deal.

Oh things would look drastically different. We all would have had a very different impression of Pettersson, which we do now but now management doesn't have the luxury of negotiating accordingly.

One loss and this board falls apart like there was an earthquake.

Watch the f***ing games.

 

[I am toxic]

Tocchet made the right call. Guaranteed the league would rule inconclusive at best , just to screw Vancouver, and to a US market team to boot, and to extend the series.

And everyone knows how much I want to criticize Tocchet.

 

[MS]

Yeah but the what if scenario doesn't work for me when they're barely mustering any shots. If that wasn't the case and the Pettersson line just wasn't on the board then I'd ask what if but it's pretty clear that it's such an unlikely scenario at this point that I don't even consider it.

It’s clearly some sort of team strategy to work the puck for high percentage shots (which is one of the reasons our PDO is so high). The amount of times in this series where a guy had a shooting opportunity and passed it up to try and create a tap-in for someone else is nuts. In tonight’s game we utterly dominated the first period … to the tune of 7 shots. And it wasn’t like we couldn’t have shot more.

We’re basically the exact opposite of Carolina who shoot from anywhere/everywhere.

 

[biturbo19]

No argument - that line isn’t working and it’s nuts that they’re keeping going with it.

I still feel the best thing is to play Blueger with Joshua and Garland and put Lindholm with Pettersson so he actually has a legit finisher on his line.

That's certainly the other option to look at.

I just see it as more minimally disruptive to everything else, to basically just swap Suter and Pettersson.

As much as Suter is working his bag off and getting some chances there...he's also firmly in the "snakebit" category and it's not surprising, as he's never been a consistently elite finisher.

So it makes more sense to me to just flip them. But there's gotta be something. You can't just continue to run that line out there where all three of them are just drowning in the same offensive funk together right now.

 

[AzNightmare]

People who look at SOG as some sort of numeric to determine who deserves to win a hockey game are brain-dead hockey fans. This is the f***ing playoffs. There are no participation trophies or pats on the back for good effort. It’s about winning 16 times.

It would also be absolutely brain-dead if you think Canucks truly deserved to win the games, regardless of SOG or not.

 

[MS]

Yeah. Looking into it. Challenge, challenge, challenge unless you are near 100% it is not a goal. Goalie interference challenges are pretty much a coin flip. 12 out of 24 goalie interference challenges were overturned in 2022. What’s interesting is that there were 42 of 80 overturned goalie inference challenges in 2023. Coaches were taking more chances and it didn’t affect the chances. Assuming an 80% penalty kill there 100% chance of a tie game if you don’t challenge versus roughly 50% leading, 40% tie, and 10% of now losing.

We’ve had 3 borderline Nashville goals on this series - Demko glove slash in Game 1, Forsberg kicked goal in Game 4 and then tonight.

Odds are at least 1 and probably 2 of those goals get called back.

 

[sting101]

Gut wrenching loss.....on to friday. Gotta suck getting on that long flight knowing the game was there for the taking if they executed early when they had Nashville on their heels

Can't expect to win a game or a series when your forwards produce nothing. The chances were there but the shots and execution were lacking. Nashville as usual did a great job blocking shots.

This was the stage of the series i expected Hughes and Pettersson to take over and it was almost the case except Pettersson ripped his great chance off the mask (needed to be 4 inches towards the shoulder) and his line mates couldn't execute down low once again. Hughes just couldn't pick a corner. Have to give Saros some credit he was firing

PP set up was lacking and Cole plus Joshua both took dumb momentum sucking penalties. Joshua was actually a step too slow for most this game and Cole stunk the whole shift leading up to his bad penalty. Myers was a chaos giraffe too many times for my liking. Put it on the damn tape

Getting a little frustrated with the impatient dumps when players are open to advance the puck. Need to keep making them work to get it back rather than piling into a corner or chipping 30-40 ft and then chasing. Happened probably about 10x this game and was a big reason why the 2nd period got away from us.

Lindholm was excellent tonight....might be time to get him and Pettersson together. I'm so done with watching Mikhayev shoot to the chest and waste scoring chances. Suter is not much better. They both are placeholders that kill Millers and Petterssons ability to produce. Hoglander was battling hard but is lacking poise when he gets control. It really looked like him and EP40 would be able to get something

Hronek and Zadorov were exceptional other than one poor pinch by Hronek. Soucy Garland and the 4th line were good. Silovs did enough to get us a win but didnt get run support. have to be happy to see we have a goalie of the future. Boeser had a few tough moments getting passes picked off but was with Miller one of the only pairs that could create trouble down low. Unfortunately some of the passes to him were slightly off and Suter just missed or messed up some of that. Liked Pettersson in this game he's on the verge of breaking out.

Hughes wanted nothing to do with going to Nashville he was flying unfortunately couldn't find the net

 

[AzNightmare]

That's what I was thinking too

You shouldn't be punished for trying to get a call right

The concern will be coaches abusing it.
In every important game, there will probably be one challenge from each side, just for the sake of it.

 

[Nucker101]

Preds have been the better team these last 3 games overall imo. Canucks were the better team the first 2 games so this is a concerning trend.

The ROR line has gotten better as the series has gone on.

I actually do think the Pettersson line is coming around, they just lack the finishing ability.

I think Lindholm line has struggled these last 3 games, I would be fine with breaking them up. Give Petey one of them and get Mikheyev out of the top 6 since he would struggle to score on a soccer net right now.

Soucy-Myers have been getting caved in a lot these last few games, I would give them softer minutes and less usage in general. They should be used more as a 3rd pairing until they can figure their shit out.

 

[Slapshot_11]

The concern will be coaches abusing it.
In every important game, there will probably be one challenge from each side, just for the sake of it.

You get one challenge, you lose it you lose your ability to challenge anymore

 

[B-rock]

That's certainly the other option to look at.

I just see it as more minimally disruptive to everything else, to basically just swap Suter and Pettersson.

As much as Suter is working his bag off and getting some chances there...he's also firmly in the "snakebit" category and it's not surprising, as he's never been a consistently elite finisher.

So it makes more sense to me to just flip them. But there's gotta be something. You can't just continue to run that line out there where all three of them are just drowning in the same offensive funk together right now.

I think though that if you go:
hog - EP - Lindholm
Boeser-miller-suter
Dak-blueger-garland

you should have two lines that have proven historically to put the puck in the net, and another line with EP and lindholm that have clicked in international play. Hog helps dig out pucks, hits, scores.
Mikheyev should not be in the lineup at all. Contributes nothing. Sure he’s relatively fast, but to what end? A giveaway.

 

[Slapshot_11]

Gotta love no adapting Tocchet barely trying Pettersson and lindholm out on a line since acquiring him

 

[DFAC]

That's not really what's happening though.

That adage is precisely about those sort of long stretch passes. Which Nashville are completely shutting down. That's how this team has generated speed through the neutral zone against teams that are far more "loose" in their own neutral zone play.

But when a team is playing disciplined "clog the middle" hockey like Nashville...the team's lack of real breakout speed stands out like a sore thumb. It's just endlessly guys being forced to carry the puck up the wing, slowly, isolated and contained...where dump 'n chase becomes the only real zone entry option. We just don't have the sort of fast players who can blitz through the neutral zone setup and make entries toward the middle of the ice that open up more options with control. Our "controlled entries" are largely quarantined to the wall high in the zone because there's just not enough speed to jack up defenders angles and threaten otherwise. Which limits options and often just leads to a dump and chase from there.

Nashville is like a poor man's LA - so it's no surprise that the Canucks offence is struggling against them.

There were a few times tonight where the Canucks tried to enter the zone with speed and did but ended up stopping or passing the puck instead. It was almost like they were afraid of entering the zone with speed

 

[Jay26]

People who look at SOG as some sort of numeric to determine who deserves to win a hockey game are brain-dead hockey fans. This is the f***ing playoffs. There are no participation trophies or pats on the back for good effort. It’s about winning 16 times.

Are you joking? It's not about "deserves", it's about the direct correlation between shots on net, chances and goals. Do you really think fans are arguing semantics when they call the team out for averaging a little less than 20 shots a game through 5 games??

 

[AzNightmare]

You get one challenge, you lose it you lose your ability to challenge anymore

Yes, my point is the league doesn't want coaches to challenge just for the sake of challenging to delay the game.
It almost guarantees one challenge per game from each side, every game, just because why not.

 

[Slapshot_11]

Yes, my point is the league doesn't want coaches to challenge just for the sake of challenging to delay the game.
It almost guarantees one challenge per game from each side, every game, just because why not.

I mean who cares?? The call either gets called right or the challenge fails probably quickly

 

[biturbo19]

I'm 5'10" 175lb and I would get my head caved in on my first shift. I have no idea how he plays at that weight.

I don't think he has much choice. This was always the biggest knock on Pettersson right back to the draft. He's tall but he's built like a beanpole and quite frankly...doesn't seem to have the type of frame that you can really "build up" to much more than that. It impacts his skating too. Where it seems like the power in his (inefficient) stride just dwindles over time as well.

Listed weights don't really mean much of anything. I'd imagine he probably started the season at something a ways heavier than that. But if he's got the sort of build that just can't build and keep mass, it's always just going to deteriorate over the course of a long grinding season. That's the case for most players really. But if you're starting from a compromised position, it's only going to get worse from there.

Until he's just getting outmuscled on every puck battle. Falling over. Lacking any semblance of explosiveness in his stride. etc. Which...combined with what seem to be some mental focus/intensity sort of hurdles, just makes for a lot of frustration.


Not sure what you do about it. But he's gotta figure something out. He simply has not been good enough.