WCH - Impressions of the Tournament

[jj cale]

Can we move on from Soccer?

They aren't comparable. There are approximately 4 or 5 leagues that are the most elite and roughly equal as the "best" leagues.

With hockey it is one, the NHL. Period.

lol.

Yeah, i guess it's time isn't it?

It's just after finding out about that under 23 thing in the olympics and thinking about all the ragging they were giving the nhl for it but giving the olympics a free pass.

It became kind of personal then, they have no respect for the NHL,a big part of our country historically here.

It started to be like they were insulting my wife or something.

Very hypocritical attitude by some IMO.

 

[snipes]

lol.

Yeah, i guess it's time isn't it?

It's just after finding out about that under 23 thing in the olympics and thinking about all the ragging they were giving the nhl for it but giving the olympics a free pass.

It became kind of personal then, they have no respect for the NHL,a big part of our country historically here.

It started to be like they were insulting my wife or something.

Very hypocritical attitude by some IMO.

I know the passion. Sometimes we need to take it back, I'm guilty of it myself. I got worked into a frenzy over the IIHF the other day and it probably wasn't necessary .

It's also probably many of them don't understand how much of a relationship the NHL has to our history. It's not as much malice intended as we think. They don't know that when we're kids we watch Hockey Night in Canada, then put on our skates and pretend we are the stars we see on TV. The emotional connection can't be captured through words.

 

[Lepardi]

It's been right here in this very thread, NHL bend over........shorten seasons, change schedules, do whatever it takes to make international hockey the way THEY want it to happen.

All I want the NHL to do is to give us an international best-on-best event in 2020, 2024, 2028, 2032 and so on, and so on. The IIHF doesn't have the power to do that. It shouldn't be all that difficult, cause the NHL has already done it in 1976, 1981, 1984, 1987, 1991, 1996 and 2004. They could have done it this year too. But no. They decided to fumble instead.

 

[snipes]

All I want the NHL to do is to give us an international best-on-best event in 2020, 2024, 2028, 2032 and so on, and so on. The IIHF doesn't have the power to do that. It shouldn't be all that difficult, cause the NHL has already done it in 1976, 1981, 1984, 1987, 1991, 1996 and 2004. They could have done it this year too. But no. They decided to fumble instead.

This we all agree on.

 

[Lepardi]

They don't know that when we're kids we watch Hockey Night in Canada

When I was a kid I watched a lot of hockey too. I watched some NHL but mostly the Finnish league. I also watched the Soviet Union play Canada, USA play Czechoslovakia, Finland play Sweden etc. Never once did I watch a game of Team North America or Team Europe in a supposedly international ice hockey event. NEVER!

 

[jj cale]

All I want the NHL to do is to give us an international best-on-best event in 2020, 2024, 2028, 2032 and so on, and so on. The IIHF doesn't have the power to do that. It shouldn't be all that difficult, cause the NHL has already done it in 1976, 1981, 1984, 1987, 1991, 1996 and 2004. They could have done it this year too. But no. They decided to fumble instead.

I agree with you there.

I am not sure most European fans think as you do however, I think an NHL world cup will never be accepted there or at least an NHL world cup in North America.It would have to be held in Europe at least half the time and even then I am not sure.

I don't think that will ever fly there with the majority of fans.

 

[Lepardi]

So the yearly major international tournaments can be done away with and other tournaments such as the champions league in an olympic year no?

Then we would have what we should have for soccer in the olympics, a best on best.

They're not yearly tournaments. We've got the Euros in 2016, 2020, 2024, 2028 etc. and the World Cup in 2018, 2022, 2026, 2030 etc.

To make the Olympic soccer tournament a best-on-best event you'd have to get rid of the Euros or make it a second class tournament. And that really doesn't make any sense. The Euros are a traditional and prestigious event, where people come from all over Europe to create a carnival atmosphere and to see who's the king of Europe in the world's biggest sport. I don't think you understand how massive an accomplishment winning the Euros or Copa America is. It would be senseless to ruin all that to create a best-on-best Olympic soccer tournament in order to please you and other people who don't even follow soccer. We who actually do watch soccer are perfectly fine with what we get to see in the Euros, the Copa and the World Cup. We don't need best-on-best Olympic soccer.

This might be hard to understand for someone who's only interested in hockey, cause in such a tiny sport continental championship tournaments really wouldn't work anywhere near the way they work in soccer. Canada against USA for North American championship would be more of a series than a tournament.

 

[snipes]

When I was a kid I watched a lot of hockey too. I watched some NHL but mostly the Finnish league. I also watched the Soviet Union play Canada, USA play Czechoslovakia, Finland play Sweden etc. Never once did I watch a game of Team North America or Team Europe in a supposedly international ice hockey event. NEVER!

I'm not a fan of the gimmick teams either.

 

[Seanaconda]

I agree with you there.

I am not sure most European fans think as you do however, I think an NHL world cup will never be accepted there or at least an NHL world cup in North America.It would have to be held in Europe at least half the time and even then I am not sure.

I don't think that will ever fly there with the majority of fans.

While the nhl is going to the Olympics I feel like the nhl needs to keep the world cup different than the Olympics to keep interest.

If they don't wanna go the Olympics anymore they should just make the world cup the same format be complete traditional best on best and take the profits for the nhl so the salary cap goes up. That will motivate players.

Prove themselves in a best on best tournament and since they get 50 percent of the profits if it is entertaining they end up making more money in the long run.

And if it's the only true best on best (they abandon the Olympics because costs aren't covered plus they don't get any profit) there will be world wide interest in the only best on best tournament.

 

[jj cale]

I know the passion. Sometimes we need to take it back, I'm guilty of it myself. I got worked into a frenzy over the IIHF the other day and it probably wasn't necessary .

It's also probably many of them don't understand how much of a relationship the NHL has to our history. It's not as much malice intended as we think. They don't know that when we're kids we watch Hockey Night in Canada, then put on our skates and pretend we are the stars we see on TV. The emotional connection can't be captured through words.

When I was a kid I used to idolize the Montreal Canadiens and used to worship Guy Lafleur, I mean, Jesus Christ himself had nothing on Guy to me.All the kids did and some of the adults too. God, it was our whole life. All this in a backwater bay anglophone village in Cape Breton.

Don't even get me started on my early memories concerning the Canada Cups................I mean, the earth stopped moving for everyone during those times.

It was special. the game was special.............some of these guys don't understand and when they badmouth those tournaments and the N.H.L it gets real personal to me, like they have no respect for the motherland of the game and what is has given not just us but even them over the years.

I mean, it's fightin words to me.

I can only take so much nationalistic inspired badmouthing of it and then I've had enough.

I think you know what I mean.

 

[snipes]

When I was a kid I used to idolize the Montreal Canadiens and used to worship Guy Lafleur, I mean, Jesus Christ himself had nothing on Guy to me.All the kids did and some of the adults too. God, it was our whole life. All this in a backwater bay anglophone village in Cape Breton.

Don't even get me started on my early memories concerning the Canada Cups................I mean, the earth stopped moving for everyone during those times.

It was special. the game was special.............some of these guys don't understand and when they badmouth those tournaments and the N.H.L it gets real personal to me, like they have no respect for the motherland of the game and what is has given not just us but even them over the years.

I mean, it's fightin words to me.

I can only take so much nationalistic inspired badmouthing of it and then I've had enough.

I think you know what I mean.

I share the passion brother. I mean why else do kids play on the outdoor rinks for hours in -30 cold and plea to stay out there when told they can't play anymore.

It is so embedded into our self-identity for us that we cannot explain it in words or articulate in a way those that don't share the common experience understand.

The NHL is deeply connected to our culture through the generations, it's not just some "league" to us.

 

[jj cale]

They're not yearly tournaments. We've got the Euros in 2016, 2020, 2024, 2028 etc. and the World Cup in 2018, 2022, 2026, 2030 etc.

To make the Olympic soccer tournament a best-on-best event you'd have to get rid of the Euros or make it a second class tournament. And that really doesn't make any sense. The Euros are a traditional and prestigious event, where people come from all over Europe to create a carnival atmosphere and to see who's the king of Europe in the world's biggest sport. I don't think you understand how massive an accomplishment winning the Euros or Copa America is. It would be senseless to ruin all that to create a best-on-best Olympic soccer tournament in order to please you and other people who don't even follow soccer. We who actually do watch soccer are perfectly fine with what we get to see in the Euros, the Copa and the World Cup. We don't need best-on-best Olympic soccer.

O.K and I have no problem with that.

I just don't want people to disregard our traditions(the nHL) and expect us to disrupt that tradition just so we can go over and play some tournament like the WHC just to make fans over there who value it pleased. I don't think many fans there understand what an accomplishment it is for us as fans here to see our favourite team win the stanley cup.

We are being asked to honor your traditions but we are being asked by many of your fans to forgo ours for your sake, that ain't right.

The NHL is a big tradition here, it's our game, it would be wise for fans there to keep that under consideration before flogging it at every opportunity.



Those who want respect give respect..........I don't witness much of that from many of the fans over there.

It's dissapointing to say the least.

 

[Lepardi]

I am not sure most European fans think as you do however, I think an NHL world cup will never be accepted there or at least an NHL world cup in North America

I made a poll on Finland's major hockey forum about this. I asked people what kind of a World Cup they would prefer to watch in 2020. This is the current vote:

Only national teams 31 votes
A mix of national teams and all-star teams 0 votes
Only all-star teams 2 votes
I don't want to see a World Cup at all 9 votes

So it's not that people in Europe don't want to watch a World Cup. It's just that we don't want it to include gimmick teams.

 

[jj cale]

I share the passion brother. I mean why else do kids play on the outdoor rinks for hours in -30 cold and plea to stay out there when told they can't play anymore.

It is so embedded into our self-identity for us that we cannot explain it in words or articulate in a way those that don't share the common experience understand.

The NHL is deeply connected to our culture through the generations, it's not just some "league" to us.

It is sad to see it somewhat dying among our younger generation these days, hockey is still king but things are changing quite rapidly, so many days I do not even see anyone out on the lake in minus 30 anymore.

I worry about the game here sometimes.

 

[jj cale]

I made a poll on Finland's major hockey forum about this. I asked people what kind of a World Cup they would prefer to watch. This is the current vote:

Only national teams 31 votes
A mix of national teams and all-star teams 0 votes
Only all-star teams 2 votes
I don't want to see a World Cup at all 9 votes

So it's not that people in Europe don't want to watch a World Cup. It's just that we don't want it to include gimmick teams.

I am sure it's true they don't want to watch a World cup with gimmick teams.

But they have never been generally enthusiastic about a World cup organized by the N.H.L and played in North America without gimmick teams either.

 

[snipes]

I made a poll on Finland's major hockey forum about this. I asked people what kind of a World Cup they would prefer to watch in 2020. This is the current vote:

Only national teams 31 votes
A mix of national teams and all-star teams 0 votes
Only all-star teams 2 votes
I don't want to see a World Cup at all 9 votes

So it's not that people in Europe don't want to watch a World Cup. It's just that we don't want it to include gimmick teams.

We all want only national teams ideally.

Thanks for sharing that, interesting that over 20% don't want a World Cup at all. Did anyone give reasons for not wanting the World Cup at all unequivocally?

 

[Lepardi]

O.K and I have no problem with that.

The whole country of Iceland (population 330,000) went absolutely crazy in June when they beat England (population 55 million) in the EURO2016 round of 16 in Nice. They were blown away by France in the quarter-finals, but that match against England will remain an epic part of Icelandic folklore for generations to come. I was lucky enough to be staring at a giant screen in the Paris fan zone right next to the Eiffel Tower when the final whistle against England blew, and the mix of joy and disbelief on the Icelandic fans' faces was truly a sight to behold. It's something I won't be forgetting soon.

Now if we concede to the logic that kept Switzerland and Slovakia out of the World Cup of hockey, Iceland shouldn't have been there in the first place, cause they had no realistic chance of winning the whole thing. But supporting your national team is about more than just championships. Those people cared. They were ecstatic. Who would care if a "Team European Leftovers" made it to the quarter-finals in the World Cup of soccer? Hardly anyone. Cause people in Europe know that a Team Europe doesn't belong in the World Cup.

 

[jj cale]

We all want only national teams ideally.

Thanks for sharing that, interesting that over 20% don't want a World Cup at all. Did anyone give reasons for not wanting the World Cup at all unequivocally?

I can just imagine what the reason is...........it is not IIHF controlled.

Because what other reason could there be for hardcore hockey fans not wanting a world cup? too busy with the fishing season?

 

[snipes]

I can just imagine what the reason is...........it is not IIHF controlled.

Because what other reason could there be for hardcore hockey fans not wanting a world cup? too busy with the fishing season?

Perhaps? Hopefully our Finnish friends can tell us.

It does appear that Europe is more deferential to the IIHF than we are. But we don't need to get into this now, I've already gotten far too worked up over this in the past.

I'm curious the reason.

 

[jj cale]

The whole country of Iceland (population 330,000) went absolutely crazy in June when they beat England (population 55 million) in the round of 16 in Nice. They were blown away by France in the quarter-finals, but that match against England will remain an epic part of Icelandic folklore for generations to come. I was lucky enough to be watching the game from a giant screen in the Paris fan zone right next to the Eiffel Tower when the final whistle against England blew, and the mix of joy and disbelief on the Icelandic fans' faces was truly a sight to behold. It's something I won't be forgetting soon.

Now if we concede to the logic that kept Switzerland and Slovakia out of the World Cup of hockey, Iceland shouldn't even have been there, cause they had no realistic chance of winning the whole thing. But supporting your national team is about lot more than just champioships. Those people cared. They were ecstatic. Who would care if a "Team European Leftovers" made it to the quarter-finals in the World Cup of soccer? Hardly anyone. Cause people in Europe know that a Team Europe doesn't belong in the World Cup.

I have never disagreed with any of this.

That was never my point.

People sure cared in brazil when their team won the gold in a strictly under 23 team event at the olympics too.

Yet it is a gimmick.

Do you feel they should not have gone crazy over the gold medal?

Did people in Finland walk around laughing that they celebrated so much after winning that gimmick gold? I doubt it

So I would ask you not to dampen anyones spirit should they be happy they win this gimmicky world cup.

Cut them some slack.

It is a hell of closer to best on best then that farce in Rio was.

 

[snipes]

One thing I have learned through our discussions with our European brothers, is that nationalism matters to them (at least my understanding, I may be wrong). Ancestral heritage is crucial to their national teams.

Flag waving and ancestral pride drives their love of hockey as an underpinning. Whereas for Canadians, a pure love of hockey as who we are in a way that you cannot distinguish one from the other drives our love of it. It is hockey in-itself that drives our pride. We cannot understand each other if we don't first understand these differences.

 

[Canuckistani]

lol.

Yeah, i guess it's time isn't it?

It's just after finding out about that under 23 thing in the olympics and thinking about all the ragging they were giving the nhl for it but giving the olympics a free pass.

It became kind of personal then, they have no respect for the NHL,a big part of our country historically here.

It started to be like they were insulting my wife or something.

Very hypocritical attitude by some IMO.

There's nothing hypocritical about it.

The Olympic U-23 soccer isn't regarded as a serious event and doesn't seek replace real best-on-best soccer which is played regularly at the World Cup, Euros and copa America.

In other words it's nothing at all like what the NHL is trying to do.

 

[Lepardi]

So I would ask you not to dampen anyones spirit should they be happy they win this gimmicky world cup.

I'd be very happy if Finland won this World Cup. I'll be there in Toronto during the first two finals. But I would also think it's kind of ironic if Finland manages to win it this time when you can't put the winning nation's name on the list of international best-on-best winners.

I'm also sure that people in Brazil understood full well that while beating Germany in the Olympic final felt great, it really didn't make up for what happened in 2014, when Germany beat them 7-1 in the World Cup semifinal. That's a bit like losing a best-on-best Olympic final in hockey and then beating the same opponent in the WHC final in May. Ofcourse I woud have been happy had Finland beaten Sweden in May 2006 to win the World Championships, but I would have also been aware of the fact that it's not nearly as great of an accomplishment as an Olympic gold medal.

 

[Canuckistani]

One thing I have learned through our discussions with our European brothers, is that nationalism matters to them (at least my understanding, I may be wrong). Ancestral heritage is crucial to their national teams.

Flag waving and ancestral pride drives their love of hockey as an underpinning. Whereas for Canadians, a pure love of hockey as who we are in a way that you cannot distinguish one from the other drives our love of it. It is hockey in-itself that drives our pride. We cannot understand each other if we don't first understand these differences.

I really don't see a difference between Europeans and Canadians when it comes to national pride and hockey, especially when it comes to the national team.

It's not like we would watch Sidney Crosby eliminate Canada in Vancouver 2010 as part of some U-24 NA team and say "well I'm still full of pride because the hockey itself was great."

 

[snipes]

I really don't see a difference between Europeans and Canadians when it comes to national pride and hockey, especially when it comes to the national team.

It's not like we would watch Sidney Crosby eliminate Canada in Vancouver 2010 as part of some U-24 NA team and say "well I'm still full of pride because the hockey itself was great."

I just can't separate Canada from hockey in my mind. They are one in the same. My pride comes from knowing hockey means more to us, it is who we are. It is our defining feature, it's hard to explain.

My comment was based on what a Swiss fan was saying earlier in our conversations, I've reflected on it and it makes sense.