WCH - Impressions of the Tournament

[Sanderson]

The IIHF doesn't consider the NHL playoffs or wait until we are done before the WHC.

Players from other leagues could have been chosen. Russia has KHL players going, probably 99% or near that range of the best players in the world, from Europe and NA are in the NHL.

If a team wanted to take Liiga or SHL guys they could have. The IIHF doesn't work around the NHL schedule, players from Euro leagues missing a couple early season games because you start earlier seems like a minimal trade off if they are good enough for the national team. Sweden and Finland have their best players in NA anyways.

The IIHF isn't the sole and overarching power. Sorry, I know it might seem strange, but they don't have the same authority over Canada as they do in Europe.

Nonsense. It was the NHL that pushed the season further and further into the year, not the IIHF that decided that the NHL playoffs were a good time to run the World Championship. You want to blame someone for these things colliding, blame the NHL. It's the NHL that added month after month to the schedule over the decades. It's the NHL that starts much later than all the other leagues, and it is also the NHL that runs a much longer schedule. Combine those things and you end up with a much later end to the season as well.

Where exactly was the IIHF supposed to push the tournament to, mid July?
The IIHF already pushed the tournament back again and again. They did so just a few years ago as well, pushing the tournament further into May, so that basically only four NHL teams are still playing when the tournament starts. The NHL has never made a single move to accomodate the other leagues, yet you demand that the rest of the world should just abide to what the NHL wants. Everywhere else the season ends in late April at the latest, it makes zero sense for everyone to sit around for over two months so that the NHL can finish its season.

The IIHF doesn't "hold power" over others. It IS the rest of the world. You are acting as if the IIHF is some sort of evil corporation that is holding other leagues hostage, it is nothing like that. It consists of all the national hockey federations (including Hockey Canada). It's run purely based on what those federations want, not forcing its view on them.

Nothing wrong with the NHL doing its own thing, it's a single entity, it can do whatever it wants. But what is simply appaling, is blaming a lack of recognition of the rest of the world by the NHL on the IIHF. It's not the IIHF that is refusing to listen, it's the NHL doings its own thing in disregard of everyone else. That doesn't make the NHL the bad guy, but it certainly makes those who blame the IIHF for all the issues look incredibly stupid.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nonsense. It was the NHL that pushed the season further and further into the year, not the IIHF that decided that the NHL playoffs were a good time to run the World Championship. You want to blame someone for these things colliding, blame the NHL. It's the NHL that added month after month to the schedule over the decades. It's the NHL that starts much later than all the other leagues, and it is also the NHL that runs a much longer schedule. Combine those things and you end up with a much later end to the season as well.

Where exactly was the IIHF supposed to push the tournament to, mid July?
The IIHF already pushed the tournament back again and again. They did so just a few years ago as well, pushing the tournament further into May, so that basically only four NHL teams are still playing when the tournament starts. The NHL has never made a single move to accomodate the other leagues, yet you demand that the rest of the world should just abide to what the NHL wants. Everywhere else the season ends in late April at the latest, it makes zero sense for everyone to sit around for over two months so that the NHL can finish its season.

The IIHF doesn't "hold power" over others. It IS the rest of the world. You are acting as if the IIHF is some sort of evil corporation that is holding other leagues hostage, it is nothing like that. It consists of all the national hockey federations (including Hockey Canada). It's run purely based on what those federations want, not forcing its view on them.

Nothing wrong with the NHL doing its own thing, it's a single entity, it can do whatever it wants. But what is simply appaling, is blaming a lack of recognition of the rest of the world by the NHL on the IIHF. It's not the IIHF that is refusing to listen, it's the NHL doings its own thing in disregard of everyone else. That doesn't make the NHL the bad guy, but it certainly makes those who blame the IIHF for all the issues look incredibly stupid.

Why should the NHL "recognize" the rest of the world? The NHL is a business, pure and simple. If the IIHF can't plan around the NHL that's up to them I guess but how can you blame the NHL which is first and foremost a business for doing what's in their self-interest?

 

[snipes]

Are you sure about that? I mean in real it's true because NHL is outside Hockey Canada or USA but I thought both associations are members of IIHF so they should probably follow their rules as well. I dont know how much respectful IIHF is in Europe. Czechs attitude changed from "how can some guy from Switzerland told us what to do" to be a partner but honestly I dont know what it means to be under IIHF. Sure you have WC, hockey rules or maybe some contracts you have to follow??? I dont know.

I have to admit I changed my attitude towards IIHF later on mostly for politics reasons. Its a good venue to meet each other and I dont think its its necessarily the enemy.

In terms of that WC I blame little bit more NHL than IIHF, even if I am aware that they both fighting for power. It seems to me that this stage is not really NHLs teritory and also, and this is just my feeling from what I saw, it just seems to me that NHL is more aggressive than IIHF here.

Still I very understand that players are very excited about this tourney. The fact that it is fully serviced by NHL has some role in it, because, and this is unfortunately true, they will have guaranteed comfort that they are used to and they dont have to undergo some punk story to travel to somewhere in the middle of nowhere without ensured flight tickets etc. This is where IIHF or national federations should learn a lot. NHL/NHLPA is garantee that tourney will be well organized from players perspective.

From fans perspective, you already discribed the difference between mentalities so, even if the reaction to two teams was pretty much same on both sides of the pond, it will be probably accepted in Canada and USA. And honestly it is an NA tournament so no one should expect european fans to be highly involved in it. I am sure that if you ask most of normal fans here whether it would be great to see Monohan, Saad or Gaudreau (I guess 90% dont know even McDavid here) on int stage even if they can not make the team, most of the people would aks you "who?" and the second question would be "where is Slovakia?"

But if you ask me about my opinion of income dividing to IIHF a NHLPA, I guess I am not alone here who has this attitude - national jersey is a honour not business. But its a detail that does not decide anything.

We will see what happens but If NHL has more plans to expand to int hockey I really doubt it happens for mostly two reasons : IIHF will protect their territory , and, and this probably culture difference too, people wouldnt accept any league leading int. stage. Fans just dont like it IMO, at least in Europe. More independences - more powers, more conflicts etc....

The hockey federations in Canada and the USA have our own rule book. Hockey federations in Europe use the IIHF rules.

Our ice size is different, and generally the way the game is officiated and played is different. Far less penalties are called in NA.

The IIHF could make whatever rule changes they wanted tomorrow and it would have no effect on how we play the game in North America. Hockey federations outside of North America that operate under the IIHF rules would adopt the changes and they would then apply.

The IIHF can do whatever they want, their rules do not affect how we domestically play the game. Yes, Canada and the USA are members and do participate in events under their rules internationally. However, the World Cup will be played under North American rules on North American ice. Frankly, the NA rules and style of hockey is far superior to watch. By not having jurisdiction, I mean the hockey we play on our soil are governed by our rules of the game.

European federations play on the IIHF sized ice, by their rule book, and their style of officiating domestically.

 

[snipes]

Nonsense. It was the NHL that pushed the season further and further into the year, not the IIHF that decided that the NHL playoffs were a good time to run the World Championship. You want to blame someone for these things colliding, blame the NHL. It's the NHL that added month after month to the schedule over the decades. It's the NHL that starts much later than all the other leagues, and it is also the NHL that runs a much longer schedule. Combine those things and you end up with a much later end to the season as well.

Where exactly was the IIHF supposed to push the tournament to, mid July?
The IIHF already pushed the tournament back again and again. They did so just a few years ago as well, pushing the tournament further into May, so that basically only four NHL teams are still playing when the tournament starts. The NHL has never made a single move to accomodate the other leagues, yet you demand that the rest of the world should just abide to what the NHL wants. Everywhere else the season ends in late April at the latest, it makes zero sense for everyone to sit around for over two months so that the NHL can finish its season.

The IIHF doesn't "hold power" over others. It IS the rest of the world. You are acting as if the IIHF is some sort of evil corporation that is holding other leagues hostage, it is nothing like that. It consists of all the national hockey federations (including Hockey Canada). It's run purely based on what those federations want, not forcing its view on them.

Nothing wrong with the NHL doing its own thing, it's a single entity, it can do whatever it wants. But what is simply appaling, is blaming a lack of recognition of the rest of the world by the NHL on the IIHF. It's not the IIHF that is refusing to listen, it's the NHL doings its own thing in disregard of everyone else. That doesn't make the NHL the bad guy, but it certainly makes those who blame the IIHF for all the issues look incredibly stupid.

Actually, the IIHF did hold Canada hostage in the 1970s.

Canadians just simply do not hold the IIHF in the same regard Europeans do. If it comes down to the NHL or IIHF. I stand with the NHL.

 

[Jablkon]

Why should the NHL "recognize" the rest of the world? The NHL is a business, pure and simple. If the IIHF can't plan around the NHL that's up to them I guess but how can you blame the NHL which is first and foremost a business for doing what's in their self-interest?

I understand you love you league but this going to be complete nonsense. Its the same like everywhere - you have united nations, FIFA, FIBA, same in every sport, politics.....but no, hockey must be different. What would you say during the iron curtain era? Were you sure that your league is the strongest one? And in case that KHL or SEL are getting stronger, should they also organize their own int tourney? Your response would be probably why not. Wouldnt it look like a complete mess? Probably for some of you it wont.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I understand you love you league but this going to be complete nonsense. Its the same like everywhere - you have united nations, FIFA, FIBA, same in every sport, politics.....but no, hockey must be different. What would you say during the iron curtain era? Were you sure that your league is the strongest one? And in case that KHL or SEL are getting stronger, should they also organize their own int tourney? Your response would be probably why not. Wouldnt it look like a complete mess? Probably for some of you it wont.

Why is this relevant? The iron curtain prevented this question from being answered, the NHL wasn't the one who put up the curtain.

As far as the KHL and SEL goes - again, why is this relevant? I'm not sure there's much point to discussing this theoretical possibility which doesn't seem likely to happen during any of our lifetimes.

 

[snipes]

I think some of our European friends do not fully understand why we still have a disdain for the IIHF.

Canada withdrew from the IIHF between 1970-77 because they tried to tell us we could not use our best players at the World Hockey Championship. Canada did not participate in the Olympics or World Championships during that time.

If it wasn't for the NHL and the players organizing the 1972 Summit Series and the 1976 Canada Cup during our period we withdrew, the best players in the world would have never played each other. What a shame, all because bureaucrats in Europe decided who we can and cannot use.

Think about it, our game and what players we could use was being dictated to us by the IIHF. Hockey is our game.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think some of our European friends do not fully understand why we still have a disdain for the IIHF.

Canada withdrew from the IIHF between 1970-77 because they tried to tell us we could not use our best players at the World Hockey Championship. Canada did not participate in the Olympics or World Championships during that time.

If it wasn't for the NHL and the players organizing the 1972 Summit Series and the 1976 Canada Cup during our period we withdrew, the best players in the world would have never played each other. What a shame, all because bureaucrats in Europe decided who we can and cannot use.

Think about it, our game and what players we could use was being dictated to us by the IIHF. Hockey is our game.

I've said this a number of times but some want to ignore the fact that the NHL basically invented best-on-best hockey.

 

[snipes]

I've said this a number of times but some want to ignore the fact that the NHL basically invented best-on-best hockey.

Not basically. The NHL did invent best-on-best hockey. It arose because of the IIHF and their stupidity.

They tried handcuffing our hockey team, in the process the Soviets dominated while the best players couldn't even play. That was unacceptable, an organization in Switzerland tell us who we can use and try to control us. We nearly lost an entire era of international hockey. When our best played their best, we won 5 out of 6 (1972, 1976, 1984, 1987, 1991)

I'm glad we withdrew and stuck to what is right. Best-on-best hockey came out of it, and you have the NHL and the players to thank for that. Besides, who would you rather profit, bean counters in Switzerland or the players themselves?

I love the fact that the players are making 50% of the revenue. This goes to help fund and take care of players after they retire, etc. I'd rather my money go to hockey players themselves than the IIHF. In fact, I would rather my money also go to the NHL owners than the IIHF.

The NHL will always be our league and we have a long history with it. Even if Bettman is a weasel, I'll dance with the devil I know and the league who always stood by Canadian players, especially when the IIHF tried to take control of our game.

 

[torero]

Good point, we cannot ignore the nationalism in Europe. It would be ignorant to Europe and its history.

Maybe in NA we are less concerned with nationality? In hockey, national pride absolutely matters for Canada. Hockey is how Canadians are defined, but in other areas of life it doesn't matter as much.

To be Canadian is different than to be a Swede, Czech, or Finn for example in the traditional sense. Being Canadian is not an ethnicity distinct from others. We are more of a mosaic. I mean, I'm of Scottish/English descent going back to the old world, but I view myself as Canadian in a distinct sense separate from ancestry. My nationalistic pride comes from being a citizen of a country founded on an idea of cooperation borne out of mutual necessity, not common ancestry if that makes sense. It's hard to explain.

Being Canadian isn't driven by a country of ancestry, it's built more on an idea. It was an experiment that worked. Scottish Protestants and French Catholics realized the realities of surviving harsh and unforgiving Canadian climates depended on cooperation. It was cooperation borne out of necessity, Canada wasn't founded based on a single national identity or common ancestry. Realities of survival were bigger than Franco and Anglo differences.

I'm very well versed through my education on European history, so I do understand the nationalistic aspect of European sport. Hopefully you can understand my different lens through which I view the world and can see why we see things differently. I appreciated reading your viewpoint on the matter. I see why the WHC matters so much in Europe, it's nationalism at its heart.

Exactly ... the season is about teams or cities among them, and at the end of the year (april may) ... the teams represent the country play among each other.
Nobody thinks consciently about this in that way, yet that is the base of the thought.

I appreciate your concept of idea gathering a young country's inhabitants. After all, you break the bond with your genetic lineage for the new bond gathering different people. So necessarily, people must be more thinking the same way than being the same. It is true that identities were by the blood some centuries ago (even less), then became by the place of dwelling (migrations became important) ... and in the case of settlers ... it is in the name of what they settle. Very interesting and fully logic. Thank you for this great explanation.

 

[torero]

I think some of our European friends do not fully understand why we still have a disdain for the IIHF.

Canada withdrew from the IIHF between 1970-77 because they tried to tell us we could not use our best players at the World Hockey Championship. Canada did not participate in the Olympics or World Championships during that time.

If it wasn't for the NHL and the players organizing the 1972 Summit Series and the 1976 Canada Cup during our period we withdrew, the best players in the world would have never played each other. What a shame, all because bureaucrats in Europe decided who we can and cannot use.

Think about it, our game and what players we could use was being dictated to us by the IIHF. Hockey is our game.

I understand that you are claiming Hockey yours because it obviously is THE sport in Canada, gathering more interest than anywhere in the world (although Russia and Scandinavia is high as well). But you cannot claim that Canada should rule the hockey world ! That IIHF should be in Canada because of that.

You do not do that ... it is called dictature ! We are moving politically away from that and sport, in general is a precursor to that.

What essentially NHL does is to hijack hockey's world championship ... come on ! Does Brazil claim that they should rule soccer ? it is unfair to think like that, only because the USD are in greater amount their !! Back to prehistory !

Their is a world ... .
Imagine you are like 20 friends and someone has the "great idea" to invite the 4 nicest looking chicks and the 3 most attractive guys ... how does that feel for the 12 remaining ? even the 8 should feel bad about it. It is the same taste than bring a dead cat as a gift for a marriage.

That is not the principles of democracy that should rule the world. Think about it. I understand the idea behind, the desire .... but you cannot kill all old people because they are useless and bring nothing to the society and monopolize wealth. You have moral values.

 

[Jablkon]

Why is this relevant? The iron curtain prevented this question from being answered, the NHL wasn't the one who put up the curtain.

As far as the KHL and SEL goes - again, why is this relevant? I'm not sure there's much point to discussing this theoretical possibility which doesn't seem likely to happen during any of our lifetimes.

Because you rising questions "why we should prevent NHL to do what it wants". Does Premier league do it? Any other league? Rugby league? Tennis? What kind of sport?

If you want only one reason - because it makes people pissed, its disrespectful and it just naturally leads people to set up at least another opponent block. No, your league is not a center of world hockey, it does not help to any development systems and to any other hockey federations. It does not. NHL owners invest a lot but NHL also earn a lot and it takes players from all over the world. But that does not mean that its more important than any other hockey federation which brings that players to your league, or even than IIHF. .... This tourney is just promoting NHL itself, nothing more and sure it brings top players. They just doing it because they are big, if you think that this is the way how it sould be done, I dont....

 

[snipes]

Exactly ... the season is about teams or cities among them, and at the end of the year (april may) ... the teams represent the country play among each other.
Nobody thinks consciently about this in that way, yet that is the base of the thought.

I appreciate your concept of idea gathering a young country's inhabitants. After all, you break the bond with your genetic lineage for the new bond gathering different people. So necessarily, people must be more thinking the same way than being the same. It is true that identities were by the blood some centuries ago (even less), then became by the place of dwelling (migrations became important) ... and in the case of settlers ... it is in the name of what they settle. Very interesting and fully logic. Thank you for this great explanation.

Glad to share culture. If you see this thread earlier I made an argument for why we should have the World Hockey Championship every year, it matters to the smaller hockey nations in Europe. I apologize if my passion and dislike for the IIHF offended you, it's not Switzerland itself, that's simply where the IIHF headquarters are.

Even though I have my dislike for the IIHF, I love the people of the hockey world. I will stand by having the World Hockey Championship and our NHL guys participating in it every year. The WHC is more for the smaller nations, it's not true best-on-best and the Big 6 powers know that. But the smaller nations love it and celebrate like crazy, it brings our northern cultures together.

My family made sure to remind me of my Scottish heritage and our history. From fighting off the Romans, Hadrians Wall, fighting against oppression, and so on and so forth. I do have a very good understanding of European history. Canada is different from the Old World though. Canadians feel unity through having a just and fair society, not through our kinship as a race. We are a land of immigrants and diversity, our diversity uniquely works here because of this. Our identity isn't through our ancestors, it's through our idea of a just society. Hockey is crucial to our self-identity the way heroic war heroes of the past are crucial to European identity for the various countries. It unites Canadians of all backgrounds.

It's just a different view of the world. I can certainly respect the pride Europeans feel and the nationalistic feelings sports evoke. Better to get that nationalistic European itch out through sport than fighting each other . I truly do get it. That's why the WHC is important, it lets the smaller countries like Latvia and Belarus participate and connect with their heritage. Especially because it is played during the spring and at a time where we remember the mistakes of the 20th century.

Hopefully I helped share some of my culture with you.

 

[Hanji]

I've said this a number of times but some want to ignore the fact that the NHL basically invented best-on-best hockey.

More like Hockey Canada and the NHLPA invented it.

 

[snipes]

I understand that you are claiming Hockey yours because it obviously is THE sport in Canada, gathering more interest than anywhere in the world (although Russia and Scandinavia is high as well). But you cannot claim that Canada should rule the hockey world ! That IIHF should be in Canada because of that.

You do not do that ... it is called dictature ! We are moving politically away from that and sport, in general is a precursor to that.

What essentially NHL does is to hijack hockey's world championship ... come on ! Does Brazil claim that they should rule soccer ? it is unfair to think like that, only because the USD are in greater amount their !! Back to prehistory !

Their is a world ... .
Imagine you are like 20 friends and someone has the "great idea" to invite the 4 nicest looking chicks and the 3 most attractive guys ... how does that feel for the 12 remaining ? even the 8 should feel bad about it. It is the same taste than bring a dead cat as a gift for a marriage.

That is not the principles of democracy that should rule the world. Think about it. I understand the idea behind, the desire .... but you cannot kill all old people because they are useless and bring nothing to the society and monopolize wealth. You have moral values.

See my post I quoted you on above.

Here's the thing, Canadians are fervent and go into a berserker like state over hockey. Especially when Canada plays for Gold. It is who we are. It's how we are defined as a people.

When you think of Canada what comes to mind? Hockey and maple syrup right? Hockey is a unique outlet for us. Most Canadians are very sweet natured and kind helping people. Compared to our American neighbours we are also much more modest. But when it comes to hockey we are entirely different.

I mean, kids grow up watching the 1972 Summit Series and believe we won the Cold War by winning that series. Our values of freedom beat out oppression. It's almost warlike for us, it's hard to explain. Yes, it sounds silly, but that's the type of connection we have to hockey.

I can't fully explain it, you almost need to be a Canadian who grew up around hockey to understand. I think the Finns have a pretty close understanding to it, they love hockey in a similar way. For Canadians though, it is who we are. It's how the world knows us, it means everything. I know it's not rational, but that's how important it is to us.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because you rising questions "why we should prevent NHL to do what it wants". Does Premier league do it? Any other league? Rugby league? Tennis? What kind of sport?

If you want only one reason - because it makes people pissed, its disrespectful and it just naturally leads people to set up at least another opponent block. No, your league is not a center of world hockey, it does not help to any development systems and to any other hockey federations. It does not. NHL owners invest a lot but NHL also earn a lot and it takes players from all over the world. But that does not mean that its more important than any other hockey federation which brings that players to your league, or even than IIHF. .... This tourney is just promoting NHL itself, nothing more and sure it brings top players. They just doing it because they are big, if you think that this is the way how it sould be done, I dont....

IMO, people should stop pointing to soccer, rugby etc. as a model for how the NHL should do things as there are some things that make the NHL/hockey unique.

The NHL doesn't "take" players from anywhere, players flock to the NHL of their own free will.

The NHL is a business, it's the essence of their being to promote themselves. They also invented best-on-best hockey though so if you like best-on-best hockey, you as a fan also owe the NHL a debt of gratitude because they did something the IIHF should have done but didn't.

 

[Gary Nylund]

More like Hockey Canada and the NHLPA invented it.

Yeah it's just easier to type "NHL". The main point IMO is that they did something the IIHF didn't and people should stop thinking that the NHL should defer to and be dictated to by the IIHF.

 

[holyprime]

As far as the KHL and SEL goes - again, why is this relevant?

Because the entire world is able to organize their schedule and have international tournaments where the best of their countries compete against each other.

There is just this one league that monopolizes it's position, generally makes a fuss about any commitment to any international competition and now hosts it's own international invitational to cement it's power and use it as a bargaining chip for the olympics. The money from that invitational also isn't used to develop the sport called hockey (and to butter up some IIHF officials), but solemly to butter up some billionaires, millionairs and NHLPA officials.

How can you not understand that this doesn't go well with the majority of the people affected by that?

 

[snipes]

Because the entire world is able to organize their schedule and have international tournaments where the best of their countries compete against each other.

There is just this one league that monopolizes it's position, generally makes a fuss about any commitment to any international competition and now hosts it's own international invitational to cement it's power and use it as a bargaining chip for the olympics. The money from that invitational also isn't used to develop the sport called hockey (and to butter up some IIHF officials), but solemly to butter up some billionaires, millionairs and NHLPA officials.

How can you not understand that this doesn't go well with the majority of the people affected by that?

First of all, the NHL is not "just this one league". The NHL is by far the best hockey league in the world by a massive margin. No other leagues are even close.

So what if it is a business with billionaire owners? The players themselves are compensated well and have a strong players union that they fought for over the years. Players being compensated and sharing in the profits didn't just happen, they fought to earn fair compensation.

The IIHF would rather profit off the backs of players without compensating them. At least NHL players are compensated and have an opportunity to be financial secure for the rest of their lives.

How much can a player make in Europe? The IIHF has a firm grip over European hockey and who is the one making the real money? Not the players.

Maybe the IIHF should stop trying to order the NHL around? How about the IIHF accommodate the NHL? The IIHF needs the NHL more than the NHL needs the IIHF.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because the entire world is able to organize their schedule and have international tournaments where the best of their countries compete against each other.

There is just this one league that monopolizes it's position, generally makes a fuss about any commitment to any international competition and now hosts it's own international invitational to cement it's power and use it as a bargaining chip for the olympics. The money from that invitational also isn't used to develop the sport called hockey (and to butter up some IIHF officials), but solemly to butter up some billionaires, millionairs and NHLPA officials.

How can you not understand that this doesn't go well with the majority of the people affected by that?

Do you really expect the NHL owners to bend over for the IOC? The IOC is beyond stupid for not covering costs and they should have left well enough alone. Your anger should be aimed at them, if you don't see that than we're never going to find common ground and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[snipes]

Here's an analogy that might help. I find analogies can help create better understanding when used properly. Many of you Europeans love your soccer (Too much diving and faking injuries for me. Can't stand that crap, antithesis to sport).

Imagine this, these leagues all merged to create the National Futball Super League: Spanish La Liga, English Premier League, Bundesliga, Italian Serie A, and Portuguese Liga. Best league in the world right?

Now imagine FIFA/UEFA or whatever it is called were unwilling to accommodate this league, they would begin qualifying tournaments before their season was done. They tried to order this league around and tell them what to do. They expected this league to lose money to participate in their tournaments and follow their commands. Further, they hold their annual Euro Cup during the Super Leagues playoff, the best players can't even play for their country because they are in the playoffs.

At the same time now imagine, FIFA/UEFA would accommodate all of the lesser leagues like say the MLS and work with them around their schedule and ensure tournaments properly timed up for them. Despite people actually wanting to see the newly formed super league players. Those are the players who bring in the real money, now continue to imagine FIFA was making huge sums of money and were unwilling to compensate these Super League players for their services. Even further, they refuse to cover any costs and expect the Super League to foot the bill themselves while FIFA profited.

Does this analogy sound unjust to the Super League and their players? It does to me. The same thing is going on with the IIHF and the NHL. The IIHF is willing to work around lesser leagues and ensure tournaments time up for them, they expect the NHL to foot the bill and lose money, and they hold their annual tournament at a time when the best players can't even player.

Tell me, how would you feel if you were a fan of this Super League? Would you think highly of FIFA?

 

[JackSlater]

I wonder what the results would be if Team Europe and the Young Guns didn't exist? I suspect that because this event is not a IIHF event, there would still be some degree of dislike for it.

European hockey federations seem to be deferential to the IIHF. Far more than we are over here.

There have long been European posters on here who complain about past editions of this tournament due to lack of IIHF involvement. Without the gimmicks there would still be a sizable amount of complaints from Europe. The tournament has never been big there.

And our perception is different in Europe than NA ! to highlight this ... do you know that in Sochi Olympic games ... Russia played the USA in hockey .. well the main referee was an American (USA) ... this was not acceptable for us ! But in the NHL you play US vs Canadian team and don't care where the ref comes from.

I am very tired of seeing this over the last few years. That referee was a Canadian referee (simply born in the United States) who lived and lives in Canada and who was sent to the tournament by Hockey Canada, not USA Hockey.

I suspect that the corruption in soccer, which is not a big topic in North America, is one of the main reason that o many Europeans seem to think it impossible for a referee to be impartial.

A certain finnish poll (with how many users, 1000 perhaps?) is showing 91% of dislike of the format? Oh my god, I didn't think about that, that certainly disprove everything about the claim "we're getting positive feedback from Europe". No one can possibly think any claim like this ("we're getting positive feedback") would include 100% of "something", right? Even if the feedback was say, 60% positive, it's still majority, but that's for another debate I don't want to start here. Also, if I recall, he said that a year and a half ago, when announcing the tournament for the first time. No one really knows if that is just a marketing move, or if he really has legitimate positive responses. If he does, I doubt it's from someone who has nothing to do with hockey, lol I could imagine it would be from the national federations, or people around them, if nothing else.

The arguments here have not even NEARLY convinced me that Finland's hockey fans would really generally not like this format. Let alone the whole Europe hockey community Adorable.

Considering that the only evidence you like boils down to "do I want this to be true?" it isn't surprising. Anyone who has paid attention to these discussions over the years is at least a little aware of the European perspective, but of course that doesn't match your criteria.

One thing I'm not sure has been mentioned re. WC vs OG - in my opinion, every OG is a potential bust because the winners could be determined by a shootout. That's no way to decide things, simple as that. For this reason alone, the WC >>>>> OG and if I had to choose between on or the other going forward it would be a difficult choice. A part of me wants to appease Euro fans and choose the OG but the part of me that wants to see the best possible hockey tournament would choose the WC (without the gimmick teams of course).

The lack of shootouts is a big plus to the World Cup. There are benefits to this tournament, and the potential is definitely there in the future for this tournament to be the biggest and most significant international hockey tournament in the world. Certainly not in 2016 though.

Nonsense. It was the NHL that pushed the season further and further into the year, not the IIHF that decided that the NHL playoffs were a good time to run the World Championship. You want to blame someone for these things colliding, blame the NHL. It's the NHL that added month after month to the schedule over the decades. It's the NHL that starts much later than all the other leagues, and it is also the NHL that runs a much longer schedule. Combine those things and you end up with a much later end to the season as well.

Where exactly was the IIHF supposed to push the tournament to, mid July?
The IIHF already pushed the tournament back again and again. They did so just a few years ago as well, pushing the tournament further into May, so that basically only four NHL teams are still playing when the tournament starts. The NHL has never made a single move to accomodate the other leagues, yet you demand that the rest of the world should just abide to what the NHL wants. Everywhere else the season ends in late April at the latest, it makes zero sense for everyone to sit around for over two months so that the NHL can finish its season.

The IIHF doesn't "hold power" over others. It IS the rest of the world. You are acting as if the IIHF is some sort of evil corporation that is holding other leagues hostage, it is nothing like that. It consists of all the national hockey federations (including Hockey Canada). It's run purely based on what those federations want, not forcing its view on them.

Nothing wrong with the NHL doing its own thing, it's a single entity, it can do whatever it wants. But what is simply appaling, is blaming a lack of recognition of the rest of the world by the NHL on the IIHF. It's not the IIHF that is refusing to listen, it's the NHL doings its own thing in disregard of everyone else. That doesn't make the NHL the bad guy, but it certainly makes those who blame the IIHF for all the issues look incredibly stupid.

The IHF has done well to try and accommodate the NHL for years. The issue stems from the past though. The IIHF took an openly antagonistic attitude toward Canadian hockey and the NHL (Bunny Ahearne most obviously) and scheduled a supposed World Championship during a time when the world's best players were buy with their jobs. This happened for decades. Had the IIHF simply worked to get Canada and the NHL involved, we may have seen legitimate World Championships and the European leagues, willing to accommodate the IIHF, would possibly (probably?) have moved their own schedules.

I've said this a number of times but some want to ignore the fact that the NHL basically invented best-on-best hockey.

Even the IIHF admits this: http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/the-iihf/100-year-anniversary/100-top-stories/story-6/

Key point, once again from the IIHF itself: "The 1976 Canada Cup proved that Canada had the best team, but like the wakeup call in 1972, it also proved there were several other nations close to the top or able to beat Canada on any particular day. The 1976 Canada Cup was the maturation of international hockey, the event that took international hockey out of a “European†context and into a global context of best on best, the winners crowned, in one sense, true world’s champions."

 

[Lepardi]

Imagine this, these leagues all merged to create the National Futball Super League: Spanish La Liga, English Premier League, Bundesliga, Italian Serie A, and Portuguese Liga

There already is a league for the best teams in Europe. It's called the UEFA Champions League, and it doesn't keep players from taking part in the World Cup.

 

[snipes]

There already is a league for the best teams in Europe. It's called the UEFA Champions League, and it doesn't keep players from taking part in the World Cup.

Picture it as though the best players on the best teams couldn't play in the World Cup because they were in Champions League playoffs.

I apologize for my ignorance about soccer

 

[Lepardi]

I wonder what the results would be if Team Europe and the Young Guns didn't exist?

They would be highly favorable. There are plenty of people in that poll thread saying how great it would have been to see a real World Cup like we did in 1996 and 2004.