WCF Gm#4: KINGS vs. Hawks - 6/6/13 - Kings Go Down 3-1 in the Series

[etherialone]

I'd rather keep Voynov.

Winner.

 

[Live in the Now]

I'd rather pay him 4-mill, than Penner.

We don't have 4 million to give anyone other than Voynov. We have so many players on high salary we may not be able to dip into the free agent market for years.

 

[YP44]

We will address our needs at LW. That is the reason to let Penner go. We can do better.

Boyes can play the left side can he not? Had a good year in Long Island and only made $1m.

 

[Seventyx7]

Like I said, lack of regular season production might not seem like a big deal, but you have to wonder where this team would be in the standings if players like this didn't underachieve.

The dude has scored only NINE regular season goals in the last two seasons....and made over 7-million dollars. That's a lot of cap space to be giving out for such little production.

I love Penner in the playoffs just like everyone else, but that's not this team's identity...to reward players all season long for sucking ass. Bad example to the young players you are trying bring up.

Agreed he's a little overpaid. I guess even during the season, I saw more hustle and work ethic than the stats indicated. I think he can improve his numbers over a full season.

I'm not saying keep him if it means losing Voynov (ridiculous). I just think we will miss him come playoff time when he's gone. Comparable alternatives will cost more and bring less in the locker room and come playoff time IMO.

 

[CowMix]

Bernier Martinez and possibly another D might be moveable not to mention King or Nolan too. We have Forbort Gravel Roach and Miller on the farm who are all to varying degrees very desirable D prospects along with Ellerby and if needs be Muzzin too (though I don't see us moving Muzzin). So we have plenty of value to move, some of which will almost have to be moved depending on how things work out in order to get our top 6 LW.

Martinez is having a bad year. Ellerby, King and Nolan are probably worth a fourth rounder all together. Our prospect pool are all still very early in their development and might not have enough trade value yet. Muzzin has some value but it seems like he's won the spot over Martinez.

I think we may have to include Pearson with Bernier to get a LW and that makes our LW prospect pool even weaker. I don't even want to think about trading Toffoli.

 

[FrozenKing18]

Is Stalberg not an option? I like his size/speed combo.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

We don't have 4 million to give anyone other than Voynov. We have so many players on high salary we may not be able to dip into the free agent market for years.

But you'll pay Penner 3.25?

It's not even a moot point because I guarantee 1) Penner is going to be looking for long term and, 2) DL is not even going to consider signing him again for one year, let alone long term.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Is Stalberg not an option? I like his size/speed combo.

Probably not, due to money. He would be a great option, that's for sure. But teams pay a premium in FA for that playoff experience too.

As I said earlier, I'm super worried this year. If there's ever a threat of an offer sheet (not just on us), it would be this offseason, where the cap will squeeze the upper-spenders tight while teams like the Islanders will get to pick people off nearly indiscriminately.

 

[CowMix]

We have $11,842,273 in cap space with so many players to sign and Voynov is going to get a good chunk of it. Offseason is looking pretty scary.

 

[etherialone]

Boyes can play the left side can he not? Had a good year in Long Island and only made $1m.

He can but I see us looking at Ullstrom or Bailey more than him if we are considering rostered players from the Isles.

 

[Shellz]

Seeing him tweet about a different team will make me sob like a baby

Ha yeah, but... just stop following him.

I won't hate if he's resigned again.. but, I just think it's time to move on. Unless he takes some drastic pay cut. We will just have to see.

 

[etherialone]

Martinez is having a bad year. Ellerby, King and Nolan are probably worth a fourth rounder all together. Our prospect pool are all still very early in their development and might not have enough trade value yet. Muzzin has some value but it seems like he's won the spot over Martinez.

I think we may have to include Pearson with Bernier to get a LW and that makes our LW prospect pool even weaker. I don't even want to think about trading Toffoli.

Martinez did have an off year but his value was established by his prior play. He still has very solid value as an add in and so do the other players that you say are worth a combined 4rth rounder.

JB is the prize and then we have players to move to sweeten the pot if we need to which I am not convinced we will. Muzzin was arguably the best rookie Dman in the NHL this past season. He was 1st in plus/minus second in goals and 3rd overall. He has allot of value, it is just that we have a very critical fan base. Muzzin is a rookie and is making his share of rookie mistakes but they are slowly going away. In two to three years Muzzin could be a very good player. Could be.

His value would be pretty solid if offered.

Aside from TT, a player that I have been hyping since we drafted we have several good to exceptional young forwards who all hold equal value. Vey Shore and Pearson are all highly thought of and then there is Porky Kozun and Weal who are all solid adds too.

Martinez and JB would bring us back an awful lot and there are teams out there that need both. We have a load of very valuable assets to move if the right player is there. If not we have a couple of kids who can step in and play the spot and do equally as well as Penner has during the regular season for us.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Probably not, due to money. He would be a great option, that's for sure. But teams pay a premium in FA for that playoff experience too.

As I said earlier, I'm super worried this year. If there's ever a threat of an offer sheet (not just on us), it would be this offseason, where the cap will squeeze the upper-spenders tight while teams like the Islanders will get to pick people off nearly indiscriminately.

The teams that would offer an offer sheet good enough to get players to sign it would most likely be the high spenders. There will be enough free agents that hit the market, and probably a couple buy out guys, that offer sheets are still going to be rare.

 

[Live in the Now]

But you'll pay Penner 3.25?

It's not even a moot point because I guarantee 1) Penner is going to be looking for long term and, 2) DL is not even going to consider signing him again for one year, let alone long term.

I said earlier in this thread that I'd pay Penner 1.5m only. I thought I made that clear.

 

[KINGS17]

Martinez did have an off year but his value was established by his prior play. He still has very solid value as an add in and so do the other players that you say are worth a combined 4rth rounder.

JB is the prize and then we have players to move to sweeten the pot if we need to which I am not convinced we will. Muzzin was arguably the best rookie Dman in the NHL this past season. He was 1st in plus/minus second in goals and 3rd overall. He has allot of value, it is just that we have a very critical fan base. Muzzin is a rookie and is making his share of rookie mistakes but they are slowly going away. In two to three years Muzzin could be a very good player. Could be.

His value would be pretty solid if offered.

Aside from TT, a player that I have been hyping since we drafted we have several good to exceptional young forwards who all hold equal value. Vey Shore and Pearson are all highly thought of and then there is Porky Kozun and Weal who are all solid adds too.

Martinez and JB would bring us back an awful lot and there are teams out there that need both. We have a load of very valuable assets to move if the right player is there. If not we have a couple of kids who can step in and play the spot and do equally as well as Penner has during the regular season for us.

Bernier and Martinez for Grabner (LH shot).

Bernier for Paajarvi (LH shot)

Let Penner go and bring back Molson?

Just spitballin'

 

[bmr]

I think we can sign Holloway for a pretty reasonable amount of $. I would think if we could get Voynov/Holloway and let Penner go, we'd be lookin pretty good. Toffoli will definitely be playing next year and the other two kids can fill in when there's injuries.

 

[KINGS17]

Holloway is another RH shot, can he play LW?

 

[Reclamation Project]

Why would anyone want to change the Carter line? That's our best line... AINEC!

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

We will address our needs at LW. That is the reason to let Penner go. We can do better.

Playoff Penner is the one we need, but he's not the one who shows up during the season. I don't think we can let him go until we have fixed the LW need. If we let Penner walk, we are at risk for getting a bandaid LW who doesn't show up in the playoffs. If we keep him 2.25 mil.

I like the idea of getting someone back with Bernier, but I think we're more likely to get picks out of him than anything else. If a package deal, then sweet. I recommend that we get a 2nd line with speed over size to diversify our attack. We have a very grinding style, which is good, but it effects our O production too much. We need a better average of 1-2 goals a game so we should relax the leash on Defensive forwards to make that transition.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Holloway is another RH shot, can he play LW?

Don't care...just bring him on...... would he even play with LA at this point though?

 

[BigKing]

This was the season to win another one but injuries are making it look like it won't happen, although it isn't over yet.

Next season is going to be a bit of a retooling where they could be better or worse depending on how the young guys play, namely Toffoli and possibly Vey.

The cap going down is going to make ELCs huge for the Kings next season. It looks like we have a Top 6 in 11,23,14,10,77 and 73 but the problem is lack of LWs in that group. I just don't think it is feasible to bring back Penner with the lack of cap space available.

I would throw this out, however: Kings just won a playoff series against San Jose without the help of Jarett Stoll. Trade bait? He would definitely garner interest. I say this because with the way Carter is playing at C, I'd like to keep him there and roll with Richards on the 3rd line with Mike obviously getting PP and PK time. Moving Stoll's salary could allow for a cheap re-signing of Penner, allowing for the 25-77-73 line to stay intact with a 3rd line of 74 (or something better)-10-22.

I'm not saying Stoll is worthless, but Dean is all about dealing from a position of strength. Center is definitely an area of strength while LW is not. Trading Stoll could actually bring back a LW as well.

 

[KINGS17]

Don't care...just bring him on...... would he even play with LA at this point though?

No point in bringing in a square peg to fit in a round hole.

 

[Reclamation Project]

**** man, we could have called Gibson up and had him play on Stoll's wing. Stupid DE@N!!!!1111!111!!

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I don't think management even begins to consider cutting Stoll loose (or cutting loose stool, depending on the day) until Linden Vey has proven he can handle those kinds of minutes and situations, which is about as far away as the expiration of Stoll's contract. I think Vey makes the team out of camp if Ferreria's article is any indication and plays limited minutes in a fourth line role, hopefully next to Clifford and likely Nolan.

I mentioned this earlier, but moving Kopitar to Carter's left may be something to look at. That would allow Richards to still play center in a scoring role next to Brown and Williams. Definitely something to consider. Carter looks great at center, undoubtedly, and his obvious chemistry with Toffoli is something to look into next year. But at the same time, if Kopitar was uninjured and producing and Richards even playing, this wouldn't be a discussion. If you go into next year with Kopitar-Carter-Richards down the middle, you better damn make sure all three lines have some kind of offensive prowess beyond those three. Richards next to Lewis and a plug is a total waste of Richards at even strength, IMO.

I don't even know if Kopitar is even capable of playing LW effectively, but it's an intriguing idea. Kopitar is at his best along the boards and winning puck battles where Carter tends to struggle. The only reason Carter even works on Richards' RW is because he usually has Richards himself and a big body like Penner providing puck pursuit. Carter at C allows him to freewheel which plays to his natural foot speed much more than the current system we have in place for our wingers, which is essentially board battling and cycling - again, something Kopitar excels at.

Again, it's all something to consider. If Kopitar can play LW effectively, a top line of Kopitar-Carter-Toffoli is absolutely something to consider. Kopitar can do most of the grunt work along the left wall and below the net (which he usually ends up doing as a center, anyway). Carter can freewheel for open ice and draw his usual double team, which will almost always leave Toffoli open with his deadly shot. This is theory crafting and may totally fail in application, but again, something to consider.

I'd like the opening lineup to look something like this:

Kopitar-Carter-Toffoli
Brown-Richards-Williams
xxxxxx-Stoll-Lewis
Clifford-Vey-Nolan
Fraser, Pearson

Regehr-Doughty
Scuderi-Voynov
Muzzin-Greene
Ellerby

Quick
xxxxx

 

[BigKing]

I don't think management even begins to consider cutting Stoll loose (or cutting loose stool, depending on the day) until Linden Vey has proven he can handle those kinds of minutes and situations, which is about as far away as the expiration of Stoll's contract. I think Vey makes the team out of camp if Ferreria's article is any indication and plays limited minutes in a fourth line role, hopefully next to Clifford and likely Nolan.

I mentioned this earlier, but moving Kopitar to Carter's left may be something to look at. That would allow Richards to still play center in a scoring role next to Brown and Williams. Definitely something to consider. Carter looks great at center, undoubtedly, and his obvious chemistry with Toffoli is something to look into next year. But at the same time, if Kopitar was uninjured and producing and Richards even playing, this wouldn't be a discussion. If you go into next year with Kopitar-Carter-Richards down the middle, you better damn make sure all three lines have some kind of offensive prowess beyond those three. Richards next to Lewis and a plug is a total waste of Richards at even strength, IMO.

I don't even know if Kopitar is even capable of playing LW effectively, but it's an intriguing idea. Kopitar is at his best along the boards and winning puck battles where Carter tends to struggle. The only reason Carter even works on Richards' RW is because he usually has Richards himself and a big body like Penner providing puck pursuit. Carter at C allows him to freewheel which plays to his natural foot speed much more than the current system we have in place for our wingers, which is essentially board battling and cycling - again, something Kopitar excels at.

Again, it's all something to consider. If Kopitar can play LW effectively, a top line of Kopitar-Carter-Toffoli is absolutely something to consider. Kopitar can do most of the grunt work along the left wall and below the net (which he usually ends up doing as a center, anyway). Carter can freewheel for open ice and draw his usual double team, which will almost always leave Toffoli open with his deadly shot. This is theory crafting and may totally fail in application, but again, something to consider.

I'd like the opening lineup to look something like this:

Kopitar-Carter-Toffoli
Brown-Richards-Williams
xxxxxx-Stoll-Lewis
Clifford-Vey-Nolan
Fraser, Pearson

Regehr-Doughty
Scuderi-Voynov
Muzzin-Greene
Ellerby

Quick
xxxxx

No way in hell you move a hulking, dominant 200-foot center in Kopitar to LW to placate Richards.

Richards can be great on the "third" line while getting tons of PP and PK time.