Proposal: Washington - San Jose

[twabby]

Washington needs a starting goalie desperately and they also need a legit top 6 center given Backstrom's current limitations due to an ongoing hip injury. They are also near the end of their contention window and should be willing to give up a lot of value to make a final few pushes at the end of Ovechkin's career. So the proposal is as follows:

Washington receives:
Tomas Hertl, with $750,000 retained
James Reimer

San Jose receives:
Hendrix Lapierre (perhaps Washington's second best prospect)
2022 first round draft pick (WSH)
2022 second round draft pick (WPG)
Ilya Samonsov
Lars Eller
Michal Kempny


I figure Hertl himself is probably worth Lapierre + the first round pick + Eller (Eller can be flipped next year if SJ is rebuilding, as he has one more year left on his deal). The retention on Hertl is needed to make Washington cap-compliant.

And I think Reimer is worth Samsonov + Winnipeg's 2022 second round draft pick, but let me know if I'm off-base here. Samsonov is a former first round pick who has the raw talent to be a good starter in the NHL but hasn't been able to put it together yet. Perhaps Evgeni Nabokov could work with Samsonov to make it work out well for San Jose.

San Jose (or some other team) would also need to take Kempny purely as a cap dump. His contract expires this year. If Washington needs to add a third round pick to make this happen, I wouldn't quibble.

Click to read more...

 

[StephenPeat]

No, just no.

Reimer’s value is being dramatically overstated.

As a Pure Rental who doesn’t come anywhere near fitting the Caps long-term salary projections, you’re also pretty heftily over-valuing Hertl.

Simplify. Remove Reimer completely and project Hertl’s value closer to reality (think Toffoli return) and then we can talk.

 

[Groo]

Never a fan of some team dumping a player then stating he can be flipped later. That's just lazy at best
Too much fluff attached

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Absolutely terrible for Washington. I suspect this gets locked shortly. Reimer MAYBE gets a second, and Samsonov alone has more value than him. Getting Lapierre and a first for Hertl would be awesome, but I suspect the prospect be a lesser name than that. The rest is just ridiculous throw ins.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Isn’t Hertl on a expiring UFA deal? Why would we essentially sell the farm for a guy who may leave in 4 months?


Value like this comes with extremely team friendly term.

 

[Holtbyisms]

A caps fan posted this??? Wooooow. Terrible.

Caps fan privileges revoked permanently.

 

[SRHRangers]

Laughing at the idea that Hertl's value is Toffoli.

Even as a rental, Hertl's value is beyond Toffoli

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Also would not shock me if in 4 years when you see redrafts of the 2020 draft that Lapierre is a top 10 guy. Remember was pretty highly touted but slipped because injury concerns, his brief time in the NHL showed why he was highly regarded. I don’t think he’s being properly valued here

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Never a fan of some team dumping a player then stating he can be flipped later. That's just lazy at best
Too much fluff attached

Maybe but that fluff is to the Sharks benefit, imo. Getting Samsonov, Lapierre, a 1st, and a 2nd for Hertl and Reimer is a good deal. Maybe we flip the contracts coming back. Maybe we don't but the rest of what's involved would be a good deal for the team but then again I like Lapierre as a prospect.

 

[Groo]

Maybe but that fluff is to the Sharks benefit, imo. Getting Samsonov, Lapierre, a 1st, and a 2nd for Hertl and Reimer is a good deal. Maybe we flip the contracts coming back. Maybe we don't but the rest of what's involved would be a good deal for the team but then again I like Lapierre as a prospect.

I didn't say much of anything about the value which is fine
No to the whole flipping thing that's just a lazy HF tactic

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I didn't say much of anything about the value which is fine
No to the whole flipping thing that's just a lazy HF tactic

They're throwing them in for cap compliancy. It may be lazy but sometimes it's accurate. We'll likely have to take back a contract or retain further. We'll see.

 

[Groo]

They're throwing them in for cap compliancy. It may be lazy but sometimes it's accurate. We'll likely have to take back a contract or retain further. We'll see.

He had us taking a cap dump in Kempny. Frankly both Ellis and Samsonov are just clearing the books for the Caps

 

[Gecklund]

My god I take this and run. Lapierre is one of my favorite non Sharks prospects. If there’s some way to get him on the Sharks I take it. The first will be late with this deal but still a first. 2nd same thing. Samsonov I’d do Reimer straight up for. Eller is a good center that we either keep to help insulate our young guys or we flip him as he’d be pretty easy to flip especially if we retained. Kempny meh whatever but as long as he’s not taking time from our young guys then sure. If WSH wants Hertl+Reimer I think Lapierre+1st+Kempny would be enough for me and still might be too much. I tried to look at WSH’s cap situation to find other cap dumps but I genuinely don’t know who else they find useful. Would someone like Hagelin or Schultz be considered dumps?

On another note I do think Barabanov would be great on the caps. Throw him with Kuznetsov and Ovechkin and he’d look fantastic there. He’d also help on the PP.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He had us taking a cap dump in Kempny. Frankly both Ellis and Samsonov are just clearing the books for the Caps

Yeah, Kempny is definitely a dump but that's to be expected. I'm alright with that given the rest of the deal. Eller and Samsonov may be clearing the books for the Caps but probably have use for the Sharks. Samsonov is a 25 year old goalie worth giving a shot with Hill next season to see what they got. I'm all for young goalies without much of a commitment while the team is in the state they're in. Eller probably only nets a 3rd and a small add at next year's deadline but that's not nothing. We can use a short term center option to replace Hertl while we figure out if Eklund and/or Bordeleau can make strides towards filling that gap down the road.

The Sharks will need to weaponize their cap space in this sort of manner and this is a solid way of doing that.

 

[twabby]

Absolutely terrible for Washington. I suspect this gets locked shortly. Reimer MAYBE gets a second, and Samsonov alone has more value than him. Getting Lapierre and a first for Hertl would be awesome, but I suspect the prospect be a lesser name than that. The rest is just ridiculous throw ins.

If I have overstated Reimer's value then I'd gladly take away the second round pick from the proposal. I just thought that a starting goalie with a year left on a very reasonable deal would require a decent package going back. Would Samsonov for Reimer straight up get it done from San Jose's perspective?

Same deal with Hertl. If a first plus, say Alex Alexeyev or a lesser prospect is all it takes then I'd be all in favor of it. I'd rather not part with Lapierre, but I just wanted to make a competitive offer that would beat out other teams like Boston and NYR who might also being looking to acquire Hertl.

I'm just trying to put together a competitive package that I'd be willing to give up as a Washington fan.

The fluff I included is pretty strictly necessary to make them cap-compliant if Anthony Mantha comes back from LTIR. If San Jose is not interested in these so-called fluff pieces I'd gladly look elsewhere to make it happen. And if they stash Mantha on LTIR until the playoffs then of course I wouldn't include them if it's not required for the deal to happen.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

If I have overstated Reimer's value then I'd gladly take away the second round pick from the proposal. I just thought that a starting goalie with a year left on a very reasonable deal would require a decent package going back. Would Samsonov for Reimer straight up get it done from San Jose's perspective?

Same deal with Hertl. If a first plus, say Alex Alexeyev or a lesser prospect is all it takes then I'd be all in favor of it. I'd rather not part with Lapierre, but I just wanted to make a competitive offer that would beat out other teams like Boston and NYR who might also being looking to acquire Hertl.

I'm just trying to put together a competitive package that I'd be willing to give up as a Washington fan.

The fluff I included is pretty strictly necessary to make them cap-compliant if Anthony Mantha comes back from LTIR. If San Jose is not interested in these so-called fluff pieces I'd gladly look elsewhere to make it happen.

I appreciate the feedback.

I mean I am a sharks fan and I would take the deal you sent in a heartbeat, but unfortunately I believe it's way too much for Hertl and Reimer.

 

[twabby]

My god I take this and run. Lapierre is one of my favorite non Sharks prospects. If there’s some way to get him on the Sharks I take it. The first will be late with this deal but still a first. 2nd same thing. Samsonov I’d do Reimer straight up for. Eller is a good center that we either keep to help insulate our young guys or we flip him as he’d be pretty easy to flip especially if we retained. Kempny meh whatever but as long as he’s not taking time from our young guys then sure. If WSH wants Hertl+Reimer I think Lapierre+1st+Kempny would be enough for me and still might be too much. I tried to look at WSH’s cap situation to find other cap dumps but I genuinely don’t know who else they find useful. Would someone like Hagelin or Schultz be considered dumps?

On another note I do think Barabanov would be great on the caps. Throw him with Kuznetsov and Ovechkin and he’d look fantastic there. He’d also help on the PP.

I'd gladly do Hertl + Reimer for Lapierre + 1st + Kempny. Again, this is why I made this thread to gauge what a reasonable deal would be for both sides.

I think Washington should be more willing to part with prospects now that they are nearing the end of Ovechkin's career. They should be making a few final pushes for a Cup rather than worrying about 4+ years from now. Lapierre is probably going to be a good player, but he doesn't really align with their window for contending for a Cup.

I'd love to dump Hagelin, but the coach loves him and I just don't see that happening. Schultz doesn't provide great value but he is playing decently well and I suspect Washington won't want to mess with their D-corps at the TDL.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

If cap compliance was the issue you wouldn’t see the Caps attach assets of actual value to make it happen that’s like just giving away value for no reason, you’d see a third team involved to retain on Hertl, given that he’s a pending UFA it wouldn’t be anything more than a mid round pick.

Honestly seems more fair to be:

To Wash via ARZ Hertl-Reimer salary retained

To SJS Lapierre-1st-maybe a 3rd


To ARZ

Kempny-mid round pick(5th?)



AZ just has to bury two expiring salaries and they get compensation. I haven’t checked the math but I assume this would work with potential LTIR stuff on the Caps as well





Edit: I forgot about Reimers contract so some tinkering would be needed but you get the idea. You’re not just shipping Lars Eller and Samsonov out to be cap compliant on expiring UFAs, there are other ways to do it

 

[StephenPeat]

Laughing at the idea that Hertl's value is Toffoli.

Even as a rental, Hertl's value is beyond Toffoli

Toffoli is signed for another year at less than $5M. Hertl is an expiring UFA likely looking for his Career Contract. It’s looking more and more everyday like 70PTs is an outlier for Hertl so he’s closer in actual production to Toffoli than is being portrayed. I’d say Hertl’s value is slightly higher in a vacuum. Factoring in contract, it’s probably uncomfortably close for SJ fans.

 

[Roshi]

Im not convinced about Reimer at all. Tbh i propably rather have Samsonov. So giving a 2nd to make that happen just doesnt seem right.

Hertl is great but to give up both, Lapierre and 1st, along side with Eller who has value too, id want to see a sweat deal extension before making the move.

Long term i dont think Caps should be after center anyways. Backstrom and Eller need to hold the middle six just for another year and then we should be able to introduce both CMM and Lapierre in. Theres lots of potential there and if just one of those two puts it together we will have Backy as 3rd line center and that makes the middle ice pretty deep.

i agree Caps should be willing to spend to get better right away, but id rather invest for a top6 wing than C.

 

[twabby]

If cap compliance was the issue you wouldn’t see the Caps attach assets of actual value to make it happen that’s like just giving away value for no reason, you’d see a third team involved to retain on Hertl, given that he’s a pending UFA it wouldn’t be anything more than a mid round pick.

Honestly seems more fair to be:

To Wash via ARZ Hertl-Reimer salary retained

To SJS Lapierre-1st-maybe a 3rd


To ARZ

Kempny-mid round pick(5th?)



AZ just has to bury two expiring salaries and they get compensation. I haven’t checked the math but I assume this would work with potential LTIR stuff on the Caps as well





Edit: I forgot about Reimers contract so some tinkering would be needed but you get the idea. You’re not just shipping Lars Eller and Samsonov out to be cap compliant on expiring UFAs, there are other ways to do it

If Mantha is stashed on LTIR until the postseason then sure, having salary going the other way probably isn't necessary. But I do suspect Mantha will be ready beforehand and given that he's only played a few dozen games with Washington I somewhat doubt management is going to want to "Kucherov" him until the postseason. He needs more reps so that he can be fully effective in the playoffs.

Oshie also seems close to a return from his injury, so I doubt he's an option there either (unless he gets injured again, which is possible!). Practically speaking, salary needs to go the other way to make a deal work, right? If Washington does acquire Hertl then Eller is the odd-man out given Dowd's heavy usage in the bottom 6 and Kuznetsov/Backstrom not going anywhere either.

I also don't see Hertl strictly as a rental. Washington has had success re-signing their TDL acquisitions in the recent past: Michal Kempny, Nick Jensen, Carl Hagelin, and Brendan Dillon all re-signed in DC after being traded to them as pending UFAs. I think part of the bonus of acquiring Hertl now would be that they would have the upper-hand in contract negotiations with him this offseason. They'd be able to offer him an 8th year when other teams wouldn't, for example. The cap will be tricky to sign him at his rumored number, but there are options available to make this work. Hagelin would certainly have to be a cap casualty, but Schultz is also going to be off the books as well. Add in a $1 million increase in the cap ceiling and there is some wiggle room to make a Hertl extension work IMO.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If cap compliance was the issue you wouldn’t see the Caps attach assets of actual value to make it happen that’s like just giving away value for no reason, you’d see a third team involved to retain on Hertl, given that he’s a pending UFA it wouldn’t be anything more than a mid round pick.

Honestly seems more fair to be:

To Wash via ARZ Hertl-Reimer salary retained

To SJS Lapierre-1st-maybe a 3rd


To ARZ

Kempny-mid round pick(5th?)



AZ just has to bury two expiring salaries and they get compensation. I haven’t checked the math but I assume this would work with potential LTIR stuff on the Caps as well





Edit: I forgot about Reimers contract so some tinkering would be needed but you get the idea. You’re not just shipping Lars Eller and Samsonov out to be cap compliant on expiring UFAs, there are other ways to do it

Hertl with Reimer retained would probably yield more than a 1st, prospect like Lapierre, and a 3rd. Hertl's value alone is likely in the 1st and Lapierre range. Reimer is worth more than a 3rd to us.

 

[pman25]

This is a deal i thought up too as a caps fan. I'd go all in for Hertl if they know they can sign him. Reimer is a little more steady in net as well compared to what we have.

Works for SJ too, they get picks a top prospect and a fill in center in Lars Eller to bridge Lapierre who could be ready in two years. Samsonov is really erratic but hopefully a new goaltending coach can work with him

 

[StephenPeat]

Hertl with Reimer retained would probably yield more than a 1st, prospect like Lapierre, and a 3rd. Hertl's value alone is likely in the 1st and Lapierre range. Reimer is worth more than a 3rd to us.

Reimer is as useless to the Caps hopes in the PostSeason as he is to SJs.

 

[Gecklund]

Reimer is as useless to the Caps hopes in the PostSeason as he is to SJs.

You understand Reimer is having a great season and has played good to great in the playoffs right?