Confirmed with Link: Walman and a 2nd Round Pick traded to SJ
- Thread starter lhsgolf19
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
izlez
Carter Mazur Fan Club
- Feb 28, 2012
- 5,250
- 4,334
It's funny, searching the GameDayThreads for the 2 games prior to Walman being benched there doesn't seem to be a lot of negativity toward him in particular. In the thread for the first one he was benched, everyone assumed he was injured and were drawing up defensive pairs with him back in for when he got healthy again.
EDIT: I took a closer look and should clarify on some dates.
On his last game 3/17 people were not critical of him and definitely wanting him back ASAP 3/21
On his last game of 4/5 people were definitely critical of him but still thinking he was injured and penciling him in once he was back right in the first GDT after that.
So I'm unsure when we're claiming he was BENCHED. Starting after 3/17 or starting after 4/5. But I don't see people complaining about a "massive regression" at the time, aside from maybe a 2 game sample
Last edited:
Steve Yzerlland
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2018
- 9,401
- 4,960
I find it hilarious that Walman can't make our D lineup, sorry. He makes less than Ghost and Holl!
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Instead of looking at peoples internet posts, go look at his advance stats. Then go look at Gustafsson.
Walman duped us with style points. He sucks. Nobody wanted him. He's gone. Yzerman upgraded while saving 1.6m. End of story.
I take what people post on the internet with a grain of salt.
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
*checks notes* ... Lets see here..., um,.... all 2 of 3 are gone, and I expect the 3rd one to be gone soon enough. So there's that.
Holl AVV is less than Walman, btw.
The Zermanator
In Yzerman We Trust
- Jan 21, 2013
- 3,581
- 1,670
Honestly the amount of pearl-clutching that has occurred because of this move is just incredible. We had that 2nd round pick for how long, 10 minutes? And some people around here acting like they just lost a kidney. Yzerman said himself they got a prospect they had ranked similarly to Gibson in Kiiskanen, so that 2nd rounder was pure gravy. And it was in one hand out the other to get rid of Walman's contract. Why the attachment? We didn't lose any of the draft capital we had the day before, and we cleared some valuable cap space.
Walman was playing badly and needed to be moved. The team had lost confidence in him, and there were valid questions about his commitment and consistency. It cost some capital to move him because cap space is at a premium these days. Moving Joseph cost Ottawa too. But Yzerman cleared that cap space without giving up anything we had the day before, and made a lateral prospect move from a position of lesser (defense) to greater (wing) need.
Looked at in tandem, as they should since they happened minutes apart and were clearly connected, we made out okay in those two trades. Edvinsson will be a better player than Walman very early next season, if he isn't already. Considering all factors, it's about as good as you can hope for.
You have to believe one of two things here: 1) that our predictions of possible returns were realistic and that Yzerman really didn't even do the bare minimum and reach out to all GMs to gauge interest before offering a sweetener; or 2) that he did in fact gauge the market and determined what it would cost to move Walman and made the best deal he could.
Ottawa lost a draft pick to get rid of Joseph. Yzerman figured out a way to swap prospects who were chosen 26 picks apart and add an asset he could then flip to package with Walman's contract, not really losing anything more than Walman's contract in the end. The only thing left to be determined is what becomes of Gibson and Kiiskinen. Since they're both mid-2nd and later picks, odds are neither of them will develop into a meaningful player anyway.
Walman was playing badly and needed to be moved. The team had lost confidence in him, and there were valid questions about his commitment and consistency. It cost some capital to move him because cap space is at a premium these days. Moving Joseph cost Ottawa too. But Yzerman cleared that cap space without giving up anything we had the day before, and made a lateral prospect move from a position of lesser (defense) to greater (wing) need.
Looked at in tandem, as they should since they happened minutes apart and were clearly connected, we made out okay in those two trades. Edvinsson will be a better player than Walman very early next season, if he isn't already. Considering all factors, it's about as good as you can hope for.
You have to believe one of two things here: 1) that our predictions of possible returns were realistic and that Yzerman really didn't even do the bare minimum and reach out to all GMs to gauge interest before offering a sweetener; or 2) that he did in fact gauge the market and determined what it would cost to move Walman and made the best deal he could.
Ottawa lost a draft pick to get rid of Joseph. Yzerman figured out a way to swap prospects who were chosen 26 picks apart and add an asset he could then flip to package with Walman's contract, not really losing anything more than Walman's contract in the end. The only thing left to be determined is what becomes of Gibson and Kiiskinen. Since they're both mid-2nd and later picks, odds are neither of them will develop into a meaningful player anyway.
I’d rather walman and the 2nd round pick over guss at 2 mill when we aren’t even using the cap space created for anything
RED WINGS STOMP
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2022
- 1,472
- 2,006
I would have much rather not traded Gibson away and just given our own second round pick away instead. Max Plante may turn out to be a player, but 6'4 RHD who can skate and has a good shot can be much harder to find than a pass happy winger.
The Zermanator
In Yzerman We Trust
- Jan 21, 2013
- 3,581
- 1,670
Gustafsson is a replacement for Gostisbehere, not Walman. And cheaper too.
We haven't done anything with the cap space yet, it's July 2nd. And better to use it in a trade for a contract you can manage than having to sign a UFA 30 year old dman for 6-7 years (which was the market this year), which will become an albatross in 5 years right when we'll hopefully be very competitive and really need the cap space.
I'd rather have Edvinsson, Gustafsson, and the cap space over Walman, Gostisbehere, and the (free) 2nd.
The Zermanator
In Yzerman We Trust
- Jan 21, 2013
- 3,581
- 1,670
I get that. But the way I see it, Gibson was what, maybe 7th in the under-23 organizational dman depth chart? Seider, Edvinsson, ASP, Johansson, Wallinder, and Buium would all go ahead of him. So he would need to beat out those guys for spots, plus whichever UFAs/trades we might bring in over the next few years. Kiiskinen has less competition to become a useful bottom 6 guy.
One of the perks of having such a full and quality prospect cupboard, is that draft picks and prospects can become useful as trade capital too. And this was a draft pick we didn't even have before moving Gibson. So I'm not going to worry about it. And now we have Kiiskinen as an asset, and retained our own 2nd.
Walman ($3.4Mx2) and a 2nd Round pick for FC
Hayes ($3.5Mx2) and a 2nd round pick for FC
Joseph ($2.95Mx2) and a 3rd round pick for FC
Hmm, seems to be some similarity in those three transactions. As if there was a specific market cost for what it took to move two years' worth of an unwanted Cap hit in the $3-3.5M per year range. Shame someone in authority didn't explain it that way after the Walman deal went down, would have saved a lot of pointless speculation. Umm ... SY said almost exactly that?
If Kiiskinen hits the two conjoined trades that produced him will be seen as a great move. If he doesn't hit, and Gibson turns into Brad Stuart, it will be seen as a brutal move. If the two prospects do nothing, it's a move in line with what the market dictated and the usefulness of it will be determined by what is done with the extra Cap space, which is a long way yet from being used up.
Hayes ($3.5Mx2) and a 2nd round pick for FC
Joseph ($2.95Mx2) and a 3rd round pick for FC
Hmm, seems to be some similarity in those three transactions. As if there was a specific market cost for what it took to move two years' worth of an unwanted Cap hit in the $3-3.5M per year range. Shame someone in authority didn't explain it that way after the Walman deal went down, would have saved a lot of pointless speculation. Umm ... SY said almost exactly that?
If Kiiskinen hits the two conjoined trades that produced him will be seen as a great move. If he doesn't hit, and Gibson turns into Brad Stuart, it will be seen as a brutal move. If the two prospects do nothing, it's a move in line with what the market dictated and the usefulness of it will be determined by what is done with the extra Cap space, which is a long way yet from being used up.
Ed Ned and Leddy
Brokering the Bally Sports + Corncob TV Merger
Austrianwing
Registered User
- Apr 29, 2021
- 865
- 824
San Jose ain't such a bad place to live, if a little boring... and Sharks fans are super dedicated. Welcome to my local team Jake.
Austrianwing
Registered User
- Apr 29, 2021
- 865
- 824
I might be imagining things, but I thought I heard something about giving Walman an opportunity to make a difference somewhere else. Maybe that was nonsense rumor stuff. If there is truth to that, there is a balance. If the difference was a 2nd vs a 3rd maybe it is worth it to be a franchise seen as a good place to work.
Or maybe Stevie said you are lucky to get out of here unscathed; wtf do I know
Or maybe Stevie said you are lucky to get out of here unscathed; wtf do I know
That's great. You go and do that when you're the GM who knows what is good for your team.
My analyzes is that management and the coaching staff expects Edvinsson to take a nice big step forward offensively and carry that part with Seider, and while Gostisbehere is not a bad player they must find that it balances out better with Gustafssons skills package around the rest of the D core.
I'm not worried. The market doesn't close July 2. It's a pretty well established fact that you get to pay more the first day or two the market is open for business.
It is still a year too early to go harder on the market.
There will be teams that has to get a little more cap space and I have confidence that Yzerman is brewing up something there to move in and make a couple of good deals to make the team even better before October.
Henkka
Registered User
I think nothing really happens anymore vs. the UFA market.
Walman trade created the cap space for a goalie upgrade, and like you said, Edvinsson takes the roster spot 2.5M cheaper than Walman at 3.4M. We have to live with all Hussos and Lyon contracts, but Talbot is the new starter.
It's a trade route now.
For veteran RhD.
Ulysses31
Registered User
think decent chance walman pulled something off ice that got him locked up in the dog house n traded
EDIT: bet almost nobody here had him pegged as negative value before the trade
EDIT: bet almost nobody here had him pegged as negative value before the trade
GMR
Registered User
He doesn’t have the poise in clutch moments like an Olli Maata. You can tell why the latter won Stanley Cups.
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Five minutes research, after all the dust settled. I include myself in all those engaging in useless speculation while all the dust was still swirling around.
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
- 11,764
- 9,929
But here's the key: the trade(s) must be for an impact player(s).
It's ok that it hasn't happened yet. Players don't score additional points or win additional games in July, and as long as everybody is on the team and healthy by training camp, no harm no foul.
But you don't miss the playoffs by one point, then have an absolute milquetoast week of free agency, just to crown the summer with trading for a fourth line forward or depth defenseman. I get it that you can't control the bidding wars on the open market, and maybe passing on some or all of the bigger names really was the right move. But you CAN control who you go after in a trade, and this team needs at least one more top half of the lineup caliber player ASAP.
So I'll ignore losing the second rounder with Walman, and I'll ignore signing a bunch of relatively irrelevant free agents (Kane notwithstanding). But it's time for Yzerman to cough up some real assets to trade for a real player or two. Because landing at least one big fish that way will make a real difference in the trajectory of the team.
The Zermanator
In Yzerman We Trust
- Jan 21, 2013
- 3,581
- 1,670
I think trading is definitely the way to go. But I don't think we need to worry. Seems a Trouba deal was close before it got nixed due to Trouba's personal circumstances, and Detroit seems to always get a mention in discussions about other potentially available dmen like Theodore or Ekblad. But we don't need to rush into anything either, there's a long summer before next season. I think a deal for a top 4 dman will happen at some point. And if it doesn't happen this summer because there are no good deals around but it happens at some point next season, that's fine too. I'd rather a great deal in December than an ok deal in July. Yzerman has shown his patience on many occasions, he's not going to get bent over a barrel. It's just a matter of the right deal coming along.
