Confirmed with Link: Walman and a 2nd Round Pick traded to SJ

[OccidentalOctopus]

The Gibson and Walman deals are linked and the return, ignoring FC, at this point is Kiiskinen and $3.4M in Cap space each of the next two years. The timing of it suggests there's a plan or at least intent to spend that extra available money soon, when there are a lot of useful things to spend it on.

This whole thing sounds sort of like a guy paying someone $200 to tow away the barely working piece of junk in his driveway, rather than keep it around selling off the parts or hoping some idiot will show up and offer him $500 for it, because he wants the driveway space for a car he's close to buying that actually works. He doesn't really need to pay someone to remove the piece of junk, he could park it on the street or even in the backyard for a while. He'd probably get something for it eventually, even if just for the tires that are in good shape. But he's gonna get rid of it at some point anyway so why f#$k around

This is a great analogy, and exactly the way I see it.

Well-stated.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Tomorrow Seider and Raymond will be traded and some will say they are not good at all. For couple of years Walman was our second best defansman who played mostly against the best

All that means is that our defense blows ass too if he was second best.

And yeah he had a good season with Seider…. He was absolute dogshit this past year to get himself stapled to the bench. He wasn’t any great shakes defensively and never scored more than twenty-one points in Detroit.

That sounds like Danny DeKeyser and Jonathan Ericsson. Both of whom people wanted to fire out of a cannon/trebuchet hybrid where the cannon loaded with the player is launched by a trebuchet at almost any cost.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Couple things heading into the draft and July 1…

Walman was always gonna be the wildcard, out of the 3 they want to get rid of. At least on what his return would be…. Make no mistake though, he had almost no chance of returning. He’d played his way into the press box. As a former Dman, and it’s solely my opinion, but I know it’s shared by many “hockey people”….. he’s the most frustrating type of Dman to watch. He has all the physical tools you could want, but drives you nuts NOT doing the basics. Normal things 12 year olds do consistently. The biggest comment I hear? He plays like a roller Dman. Everything is circling and wide open. So frustrating to watch on the ice. Especially because 50% of his mistakes are unforced. All the blind passes, chipping the puck when he should control it, reversing it the wrong direction, etc, etc. It’s always been his problem though. Every team’s known exactly who Walman has been because he’s so physically talented. The Wings just thought he’d finally turned a corner, but went right back to being the player he was in college and St Louis… after he got paid.

You just hoped a team thought better of him than teams obviously did. Now they’ll try getting rid of Holl and Maatta. That’s always been the plan. One should obviously be easier than the other. Holl may have to be bought out. The fact we haven’t heard that yet, tells me someone may have interest. Maybe it’s San Jose on waivers?? Don’t think they want to retain anything with him though. Maatta should be pretty easy to move. I’d heard Utah on him, but Vancouver would be smart to step up and throw the Wings a 3rd, 4th or 5th rounder, if they’re not re-signing Zadorov.

Whether they sign Ghost again, will have a lot to do with what type of Dmen they can add. If he signs this week, that means they don’t have too much confidence they’ll sign/trade for a blue liner with any real offense.

Two names I’ve heard about for months now, other than Roy as a UFA (likely wanting to sign in Detroit if he hit the market, and the money is right) has been Shea Theodore (if Vegas does move him) and the other being Justin Faulk, who there was talk about pre-deadline.

Theodore is the more consistent of the two, but both could add a nice piece to their blue line. Faulk has been the more up and down player, but he’s still a good, role playing dman. Don’t ask him to do too much, and he’ll be a solid Dman for any team.

Roy obviously has been the biggest UFA name connected for obvious reasons. He does participate in some summer skates, etc. So those guys are always speculated to come home. He does like playing in LA though, and would probably re-sign if that deal was right. As of now, looks like he’s hitting the market. With a lot of interest around the league, don’t be surprised if someone sends the Kings a pick, to get his negotiating rights and a jumpstart on signing him. Once that happens, teams can be real convincing.

Like I said, they’re gonna want some offense from one of the two they obtain, and that’s not Roy. If they ended up with Zadorov and Roy, then Edvinsson is gonna have to be more involved offensively, earlier then they have planned. Have heard they were real happy about how he created offense. Whether with his quick puck movement or his transporting the puck.. Just think of that Toronto game. Very few young Dmen have games like that early in a career. So would I be shocked at two Defensive Dmen added? No, but I do think one of them will have some offense to his game, and that’s why we still hear Ghost mentioned so much as well. Know he earned a ton of respect (in the organization) after how he played down the stretch. Especially the last few games. He played a playoff type roll. Can’t take that away from him..

Don’t forget about Brady Skjei either. That would be a sneaky signing someone told me Detroit may sneak in on.

Cernak from Tampa could be another one. Yzerman has traded for him before I believe and Tampa could move a dman.

As for Trouba, I’ve only ever heard of people speculating. As in fans and media types. I know he’d like to play in Detroit at some point, and Yzerman does like that type of dmen, so maybe we should speculate more. All of that group of local players would love to play in Detroit one day. So would Tory Krug and Cam Fowler. Doesn’t mean they ever will. Although, like Petry, it can happen real quick. Fowler would be great to have around, but just think he’s too important for what Anaheim is trying to do with their young Dmen. They need him.

I haven’t heard anyone talking about Pesce or Tanev with Detroit. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be interested though. Pesce could also be a great partner for Edvinsson, but think Roy may fit better, because if let’s say ASP is just so great after this year, he’s coming straight to the NHL, Roy can move down to the bottom pairing and actually “carry the pair.” That’s a big deal.

Signing/trading for any of these Dmen AND signing Roy for the money they shaved off the blue line, would be a steal.

You’d be talking about roughly $12 million off the books, and probably adding $11-$12m. Not counting trading for Trouba. That would obviously skew some numbers.

Heard something today about possibly buying out Petry too. He’s so cheap though, they wouldn’t save much. Also heard they could trade Chiarot (if they had to) in one of these deals, to make the money right. They’d prefer he be the leader on their bottom pairing right now though. His name came up talking to someone about Trouba, saying they could see Chiarot going in that trade somehow. Pure speculation from an evaluator though. We do know his name was thrown around last August/September when they were sniffing around Hanifin. The Wings like Chiarot, and to be fair to him, he played well down the stretch with Seider, unlike when he first got to Detroit, and tried leading Seider, rather than supporting Seider.

If they pull off adding two legit, higher end, role playing dmen, for basically money out-money in, they’d still have money for other things, and it would be a coup really. Upgrading for the same money.

Up front? Think they will be in on one big name, and then a secondary scorer type. No clue who that forward will be, but they’d like it to be a C or someone who can drive a line from the wing. Those guys aren’t easy to get though. Even as UFAs. Obviously other teams throw money around too. Reinhart could be a sneaky add, and he can play C. He drives a line. Stamkos is Stamkos. Lindholm can help you the middle. So could Chandler Stephenson. Although I consider him more of a secondary move.

Two names to keep an eye on (on the secondary market) are Anthony Duclair and Jake DeBrusk. DeBrusk goes back to December when Boston was looking at getting Perron, and if people remember, the Wings scouted Boston like 6 games in a row. They were looking at DeBrusk and Lauko mostly. They’d like a secondary winger to replace Perron, but with more speed and the ability to drive that 3rd line IF he’s slumping. A player they can move down the lineup, who can create pace. Both those players can do it. DeBrusk can really do it well, and his pace would be great with Larkin.

The big goal though, is finding two standout partners for their two young minute eaters on the blue line. Partners for the next few years that make their Top 4 very hard to play against. Then let Chiarot, Petry and Johansson, fill out their bottom pairing. Plus upgrading their net if they can.

One other thing to mention.. There was a reason Albert Johansson was playing the right side towards the end of the season in GR.

Good bet he shares time, rotating in and out with Petry, playing with Chiarot… but also don’t be surprised if Johansson gets some time with Seider in training camp, to see how that looks. Obviously that would be back on the left. He’s a very solid player.

To have a player with those wheels, who’s really solid technically, will open things up for Seider.. Or at least it could. Keep an eye on that come camp. Especially if they don’t land that partner for Seider.

They really like Johansson. He won’t get a lot of fanfare but could turn into a player very much like Matt Roy. He does all the little things right defensively. All the things coaches appreciate and fans ignore. Yet every team, every year, does nothing but praise him. His speed and how he processes the game quickly, should help him make a pretty smooth transition into the NHL. We’ll see. Don't sell him short though. Stats aren’t everything.

The main goal though, is to find two really good role players, to play with Seider and Edvinsson moving forward.

Great post and appreciate the time/effort to go into so many possible scenarios. There are always a dozen balls in the air at this time of year.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Boys, FA is just around the corner and we all know that most of the big fish already made their decision behind the scenes where they'll go. I trust Stevie already knows what is coming July 1st. So with that in mind Imma wait why he felt this move was necessary.

BTW: Can somebody explain these Walman off-ice issues that some in here have alluded to?

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

The analogy I picture is a kid running a lemonade stand with a sign that reads, "Lemonade 2.00$ a glass!" A thisty jogger approaches and orders a glass of lemonade. The kid responds, "Here's your lemonade and here's your 2.00$."
When an observer asks why the kid paid the jogger on top of giving him the lemonade, he explains that he wants to clear the lemonade cooler out of the garage to make room for a new car.

I mean, it's a good reason to want to make room in the garage, but he could still take the customer's 2 bucks and still be clearing out the lemonade. It's lemonade, the shit sells itself.

Yeah, your analogy is reasonable. We're all going to spin this to fit what we think are the most important facts, including me to fit my feeling that this is not nearly so big a deal as it is being made out to be. In mine, the unexplained part was that the tow truck driver was a buddy going to Cabo this weekend; $200 now would come in handy, and in exchange the buddy promised to give him a free tow in the future, Or at least give it some consideration.

Regardless of how we all look at this and the story we invent for it, the most important element is how this turns out: What does SY do with the Cap space he now has available? That's the only known benefit of the trade and I will be disappointed if he doesn't put it to good use. If he does, we can debate later to what extent if any having the extra Cap space now contributed. He can go over the Cap during the summer, maybe he has a lot more things in mind.

 

[better Red than Dead]

I still believe there is something bigger in play here, believe me, if this was a move to just sign our own free agents and bring back the same team, minus Kane, with a higher cap number I’ll be getting my pitchfork and torch out as well

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Boys, FA is just around the corner and we all know that most of the big fish already made their decision behind the scenes where they'll go. I trust Stevie already knows what is coming July 1st. So with that in mind Imma wait why he felt this move was necessary.

That’s pretty much all I was saying.

Yzerman is not an idiot. Holland wasn’t an idiot.

Holland got to be overly conservative, high on his own supply with “late draft pick success” and complacent on the details (like strength and conditioning upgrades, woof)

They weren’t actively making bad trades to suck. There was a logic and a sound logic. Holland just never got out of “Detroit is hockey town, guys should want to come here or stay here mode”. He got absolutely slaughtered by the 2012, 2014, and 2016 FA periods.

2012 with Parise and Suter playing him like a sap for $10m more from Leipold
2014 when he walked in with a blank check for a top 4 D and he was turned down by everyone he offered and had to give Kyle Quincey a raise to come back after he told him to kick rocks.
2016 when Stammer didn’t even take their call and he then gave the Stamkos money to Nielsen and Helm.
* I will always stand on Stamkos didn't want to leave Tampa at all and wanted to hear everyone... but Toronto misunderstood Stammer as a person and pulled out the LeBron-level red carpet with the CEO of Canadian Tire and a whole big hulabaloo and Stamkos was like and was just done after that point.

Yeah, your analogy is reasonable. We're all going to spin this to fit what we think are the most important facts, including me to fit my feeling that this is not nearly so big a deal as it is being made out to be In mine, the unexplained part was that the tow truck driver was a buddy going to Cabo this weekend; $200 now would come in handy, and in exchange the buddy promised to give him a free tow in the future, Or at least give it some consideration.

Regardless of how we all look at this and the story we invent for it, the most important element is how this turns out: What does SY do with the Cap space he now has available? That's the only known benefit of the trade and I will be disappointed if he doesn't put it to good use. If he does, we can debate later to what extent if any having the extra Cap space now contributed. He can go over the Cap during the summer, maybe he has a lot more things in mind.

And yup. That was my point too. Let’s stop adjudicating the trade as it is… because everyone knows it was a bad value proposition and start asking the question “what will yzerman do with the freed up money” with the assumption that Yzerman isn’t a moron.

 

[HoweFan]

I keep checking in here hoping that the future considerations will be revealed in the form of a high draft pick. Hmm don’t think it will happen

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

A few weeks ago there was a discussion about us getting #2 center. I don't remember which player it was. However, some posters thought that my idea was crazy and too low to obtain the player.

This trade confirms that I was right. Cap space is an asset and sometimes it can be a big one.

And once the rebuilding teams reach the cap floor, the price of salary dumps likely goes way up this year as the silly season approaches, the other things now open are 2 contract slots and one LHD roster spot, it cost a prospect swap to get those thigs, I liked Gibson, but depending on the next couple of weeks, his path to the wings would likely closed for several years, so a swap for a forward that may have a chance seems logical to me. The fact we got a pick to allow the dump is gravy.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

I keep checking in here hoping that the future considerations will be revealed in the form of a high draft pick. Hmm don’t think it will happen

Maybe there is something going on with SJ now having the 11th OA pick. In a vacuum, Walman and a 2nd wouldn't be far off as compensation for a swap with 15, it all coming down possibly to a specific player being on the board at 11. Odds against the FC turning into something so significant, but musing about possibilities is a good way to get through the rest of the day.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Maybe there is something going on with SJ now having the 11th OA pick. In a vacuum, Walman and a 2nd wouldn't be far off as compensation for a swap with 15, it all coming down possibly to a specific player being on the board at 11. Odds against the FC turning into something so significant, but musing about possibilities is a good way to get through the rest of the day.

Yeah, I'm guessing the FC are something like "If this one player San Jose really wants isn't there, they agree to trade their first for ours plus a third or whatever."

At this point there are two reasonable interpretations of events. 1. The future considerations are somehow valuable like in the scenario above. 2. Yzerman hated Walman so much that he completely misunderstood his value and didn't take enough time asking around to realize how far off he was. You're not going to convince me that the cap space was worth the price when Mangiapane is getting traded for assets. Furthermore, the whole "Holl waiver NTC bypass theory" has expired. I find the second option deeply disturbing so I have to hope that it's the first.

I think Grier might have pulled one over on Yzerman moving up to 11 even if we're in scenario 1 though. At that 11, whoever San Jose wants is probably a lot more likely to be there than at 14 and so he decreased the odds of having to pay the FC.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Maybe there is something going on with SJ now having the 11th OA pick. In a vacuum, Walman and a 2nd wouldn't be far off as compensation for a swap with 15, it all coming down possibly to a specific player being on the board at 11. Odds against the FC turning into something so significant, but musing about possibilities is a good way to get through the rest of the day.

If this turns out to be Catton for 15OA+Walman+2nd, then it is a home run!

 

[jaster]

We're really bad on defense.

Detroit's D wasn't a whole heap better, and we healthy scratched Walman for the last dozen or so games of the season. I think you'll see Walman get big minutes in SJ, but not #1 minutes. He just doesn't have the tools to fill that kind of role. Someone like Ferraro is far more likely to be minute-munching in a #1 role, even if he too is not ideal.

Walman's a nice special weapon who can create some exciting plays and score some flashy goals, but he's irresponsible with the puck, inconsistent, and seems to frustrate coaches (and GMs, lol). Since he plays the same side as Ferraro, I'd guess Walman gets big minutes from the 2nd pair for you guys.

 

[Frk It]

So are you guys expecting to swap picks with SJ in either round 1 or round 2?

 

[Hammettf2b]

So are you guys expecting to swap picks with SJ in either round 1 or round 2?

The people holding out hope that there's more to the trade are. Personally, I think it's over and done.

 

[jaster]

lol, here we go with the hyperbole.

He’s fine. People are so extreme.

Walman's fine on defense? News to me.

I think the whole, "this guy will put up big points in his contract year and then suck after getting a contract" thing is exaggerated, but Walman is probably actually a good example. But instead of putting up big points in his contract year, he refined his defensive game, became more responsible with the puck, and made a nice partner for Mo. But then, this year after getting his contract, he totally regressed. Mo had to work overtime to cover for all of Walman's gaffes and free-wheeling chaos, to the point where they were separated and Walman was healthy scratched.

The Walman of this past season was a different player than the previous season. A much worse one. Pretty apparent he was far from "fine."

 

[Frk It]

The people holding out hope that there's more to the trade are. Personally, I think it's over and done.

Yeah I don't know. Obviously I am hoping a pick swap or a big time free agent happens and then we get something that looks like it justifies this move. At this point, I just don't know.

I am starting to wonder if Yzerman is a bit tempermental as a GM and if maybe that is one of his negative traits. It seems like when he decides he is "done" with a player he just does whatever to get rid of them and doesn't take his time to try to extract the best value. I wonder with both Vrana and Walman if he took a bit of a more measured approach if he could have found more value.

 

[jkutswings]

Yeah I don't know. Obviously I am hoping a pick swap or a big time free agent happens and then we get something that looks like it justifies this move. At this point, I just don't know.

I am starting to wonder if Yzerman is a bit tempermental as a GM and if maybe that is one of his negative traits. It seems like when he decides he is "done" with a player he just does whatever to get rid of them and doesn't take his time to try to extract the best value. I wonder with both Vrana and Walman if he took a bit of a more measured approach if he could have found more value.

Good question. On the one hand, I think people are treating a second round pick as if there's a chance you could land the next McDavid with it, rather than it likely being a coin flip between a depth player and an outright bust. That said, you can give somebody the "bye Felicia" treatment without losing another asset in the process.

Here's to hoping for a great rest of the summer and a significantly improved roster, regardless of this particular move.

 

[sepster]

I got some more insight yesterday and the bottom line is that Walman, down the stretch when the team was going through their two extended slumps, really burned some bridges in the locker room. That's why he's gone.

Keeping with what Yzerman told the entire organization when he was brought in, that everyone (from coaching staff down to arena staff) is expected to go above and beyond your job requirements, or you will not be part of the organization, Walman (just like Mantha, Vrana, Bertuzzi, Zadina) gets himself removed from the organization. Yzerman has been trying to trade him since the end of the season with absolutely no takers. The part about other GMs being surprised that he was available? "Total bullshit" was the response to that.

 

[ZDH]

I was open to the idea that there might be something going on with a first round pick swap with SJ when they were a pick before us.

Now that's completely out the window with SJ moving up a few more spots. Doesn't make any sense now.

 

[TCNorthstars]

. Furthermore, the whole "Holl waiver NTC bypass theory" has expired.

Why do you think this theory has expired?

 

[heyfolks]

Two takes from my perch:

The "Trade"

The "trade" that wasn't a "trade": You get something in return for a trade. The Wings not only gained NOTHING, they gave up a pick to move Walman. I have not read a post saying he was not a NHL level D'man. Top 4 seems to be a good estimate. Heck, call him a 4 or 5. Still NHL level. He has a 3.4M cap hit. Very reasonable. BY CAP HIT he is the 90th ranked D man (tied with Holl!!)

I contend the Wings were FLEECED and any person saying this was a trade doesn't understand the definition of the word or tries to sell the return as "cap relief." Relief gained by waiving Holl and not signing a few UFAs. JW had positive value and, instead, the Wings gave away an asset to move him. Makes zero sense in any context.

1. : to give one thing in exchange for another. 2. a. : to engage in the exchange, purchase, or sale of goods.

2024 NHL Salary Rankings

Listing the top salaries, cap hits, cash, earnings, contracts, and bonuses, for all active NHL players.

www.spotrac.com

The D:

It was NOT great, hardly improved but it wasn't exactly on Walman. Yzerman signed some dead weight for which Jake is paying the price. Neither Petry nor Holl should be on this roster. How to get better? That cat is out of the bag. Simon will make the D better. Is he an instant partner with Mo? I have no idea, but he is top 4. It do think finding that stable #2 for Mo is an issue that must be addressed.

The D is now:
Mo, ???
Chiarot, Simon
Maata, Petry
Holl

People speak about signing Ghost but he isn't a top 4 guy.

The over-all discussion appears focused on a netminder. The D, with this move, got worse. The only way to say it improved is adding Simon. Now, I still believe Johansson is a better fit than Holl or Petry, but after this move who knows.


Summary: I don't mind moving Walman, but the penalty to take him off the roster is a head scratcher.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Why do you think this theory has expired?

Holl would be on waivers right now.

 

[Vandalay Industries]

Couple things heading into the draft and July 1…

Walman was always gonna be the wildcard, out of the 3 they want to get rid of. At least on what his return would be…. Make no mistake though, he had almost no chance of returning. He’d played his way into the press box. As a former Dman, and it’s solely my opinion, but I know it’s shared by many “hockey people”….. he’s the most frustrating type of Dman to watch. He has all the physical tools you could want, but drives you nuts NOT doing the basics. Normal things 12 year olds do consistently. The biggest comment I hear? He plays like a roller Dman. Everything is circling and wide open. So frustrating to watch on the ice. Especially because 50% of his mistakes are unforced. All the blind passes, chipping the puck when he should control it, reversing it the wrong direction, etc, etc. It’s always been his problem though. Every team’s known exactly who Walman has been because he’s so physically talented. The Wings just thought he’d finally turned a corner, but went right back to being the player he was in college and St Louis… after he got paid.

You just hoped a team thought better of him than teams obviously did. Now they’ll try getting rid of Holl and Maatta. That’s always been the plan. One should obviously be easier than the other. Holl may have to be bought out. The fact we haven’t heard that yet, tells me someone may have interest. Maybe it’s San Jose on waivers?? Don’t think they want to retain anything with him though. Maatta should be pretty easy to move. I’d heard Utah on him, but Vancouver would be smart to step up and throw the Wings a 3rd, 4th or 5th rounder, if they’re not re-signing Zadorov.

Whether they sign Ghost again, will have a lot to do with what type of Dmen they can add. If he signs this week, that means they don’t have too much confidence they’ll sign/trade for a blue liner with any real offense.

Two names I’ve heard about for months now, other than Roy as a UFA (likely wanting to sign in Detroit if he hit the market, and the money is right) has been Shea Theodore (if Vegas does move him) and the other being Justin Faulk, who there was talk about pre-deadline.

Theodore is the more consistent of the two, but both could add a nice piece to their blue line. Faulk has been the more up and down player, but he’s still a good, role playing dman. Don’t ask him to do too much, and he’ll be a solid Dman for any team.

Roy obviously has been the biggest UFA name connected for obvious reasons. He does participate in some summer skates, etc. So those guys are always speculated to come home. He does like playing in LA though, and would probably re-sign if that deal was right. As of now, looks like he’s hitting the market. With a lot of interest around the league, don’t be surprised if someone sends the Kings a pick, to get his negotiating rights and a jumpstart on signing him. Once that happens, teams can be real convincing.

Like I said, they’re gonna want some offense from one of the two they obtain, and that’s not Roy. If they ended up with Zadorov and Roy, then Edvinsson is gonna have to be more involved offensively, earlier then they have planned. Have heard they were real happy about how he created offense. Whether with his quick puck movement or his transporting the puck.. Just think of that Toronto game. Very few young Dmen have games like that early in a career. So would I be shocked at two Defensive Dmen added? No, but I do think one of them will have some offense to his game, and that’s why we still hear Ghost mentioned so much as well. Know he earned a ton of respect (in the organization) after how he played down the stretch. Especially the last few games. He played a playoff type roll. Can’t take that away from him..

Don’t forget about Brady Skjei either. That would be a sneaky signing someone told me Detroit may sneak in on.

Cernak from Tampa could be another one. Yzerman has traded for him before I believe and Tampa could move a dman.

As for Trouba, I’ve only ever heard of people speculating. As in fans and media types. I know he’d like to play in Detroit at some point, and Yzerman does like that type of dmen, so maybe we should speculate more. All of that group of local players would love to play in Detroit one day. So would Tory Krug and Cam Fowler. Doesn’t mean they ever will. Although, like Petry, it can happen real quick. Fowler would be great to have around, but just think he’s too important for what Anaheim is trying to do with their young Dmen. They need him.

I haven’t heard anyone talking about Pesce or Tanev with Detroit. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be interested though. Pesce could also be a great partner for Edvinsson, but think Roy may fit better, because if let’s say ASP is just so great after this year, he’s coming straight to the NHL, Roy can move down to the bottom pairing and actually “carry the pair.” That’s a big deal.

Signing/trading for any of these Dmen AND signing Roy for the money they shaved off the blue line, would be a steal.

You’d be talking about roughly $12 million off the books, and probably adding $11-$12m. Not counting trading for Trouba. That would obviously skew some numbers.

Heard something today about possibly buying out Petry too. He’s so cheap though, they wouldn’t save much. Also heard they could trade Chiarot (if they had to) in one of these deals, to make the money right. They’d prefer he be the leader on their bottom pairing right now though. His name came up talking to someone about Trouba, saying they could see Chiarot going in that trade somehow. Pure speculation from an evaluator though. We do know his name was thrown around last August/September when they were sniffing around Hanifin. The Wings like Chiarot, and to be fair to him, he played well down the stretch with Seider, unlike when he first got to Detroit, and tried leading Seider, rather than supporting Seider.

If they pull off adding two legit, higher end, role playing dmen, for basically money out-money in, they’d still have money for other things, and it would be a coup really. Upgrading for the same money.

Up front? Think they will be in on one big name, and then a secondary scorer type. No clue who that forward will be, but they’d like it to be a C or someone who can drive a line from the wing. Those guys aren’t easy to get though. Even as UFAs. Obviously other teams throw money around too. Reinhart could be a sneaky add, and he can play C. He drives a line. Stamkos is Stamkos. Lindholm can help you the middle. So could Chandler Stephenson. Although I consider him more of a secondary move.

Two names to keep an eye on (on the secondary market) are Anthony Duclair and Jake DeBrusk. DeBrusk goes back to December when Boston was looking at getting Perron, and if people remember, the Wings scouted Boston like 6 games in a row. They were looking at DeBrusk and Lauko mostly. They’d like a secondary winger to replace Perron, but with more speed and the ability to drive that 3rd line IF he’s slumping. A player they can move down the lineup, who can create pace. Both those players can do it. DeBrusk can really do it well, and his pace would be great with Larkin.

The big goal though, is finding two standout partners for their two young minute eaters on the blue line. Partners for the next few years that make their Top 4 very hard to play against. Then let Chiarot, Petry and Johansson, fill out their bottom pairing. Plus upgrading their net if they can.

One other thing to mention.. There was a reason Albert Johansson was playing the right side towards the end of the season in GR.

Good bet he shares time, rotating in and out with Petry, playing with Chiarot… but also don’t be surprised if Johansson gets some time with Seider in training camp, to see how that looks. Obviously that would be back on the left. He’s a very solid player.

To have a player with those wheels, who’s really solid technically, will open things up for Seider.. Or at least it could. Keep an eye on that come camp. Especially if they don’t land that partner for Seider.

They really like Johansson. He won’t get a lot of fanfare but could turn into a player very much like Matt Roy. He does all the little things right defensively. All the things coaches appreciate and fans ignore. Yet every team, every year, does nothing but praise him. His speed and how he processes the game quickly, should help him make a pretty smooth transition into the NHL. We’ll see. Don't sell him short though. Stats aren’t everything.

The main goal though, is to find two really good role players, to play with Seider and Edvinsson moving forward.

Exceptional post. I only have one very minor "claim":

It seems to me, that Stamkos is to old too fit the mold of what Yzerman is building here.

It's absolutely possible to take a player at Stamkos' age, but not for that piece in the whole puzzle.

As I see it, Yzerman is still waiting to sort of catch a break on two spots, that you can barrely miss if you are going to go all in on a championship run: A sure shot goalie and a legit 1-2 punch at the center.

Now, when building a master class contender that will be able to challenge for 4-6 years (at least) you will need a strong (and steady) top goalie, a first, a second and a third center and a first, a second and a third defenseman with a nice mix of skills. I'll get back to that.

By top goalie I don't mean a goalie that is among the five besy in the league or anything measurable otherwise. I mean a goalie that doesn't lose games you were supposed to win. A goalie who will play as many games as needed and saving the shots the team "knows" he will take. I'm talking about a steady guy keeping us in the lane all the time. A back up is of course also needed, but they are easier to find.

On the D I need one offensive minded defenseman who can skate like only few other D's and create plays from the back, join the rush to a certain degree, maybe even do some rushes on his own when the opposition is caught out of position for whatever reason and quarterback the powerplay. I also need a top dog two way player with a physically strong presence on the back end, never losing his marks, checking hard, taking guys out in front of the net and so on and a capability to start plays from his own end, be it lead out passes, skating the puck to the middle of the ice or whatever. And a third D that is a top defensive player in the game without being so hopeless with the puck that you can only play third pairing. This third guy should be able to make the right decision with the puck all the time, but most of the time the easy solution is also the best. So, mostly: Just stay simple. But always be reliable. And defensively just being a wall that everyone hates playing against. I always think of Adam Foote as the best of these guys from the generation when I sort of developed this little model in my mind.

OK, on forward I'm concentrating on the C's: I need a real top offensive center. I don't need details here, right? On the second C though I need this guy to be a sure shot two way force. A Selke candidate. Hitting like 60-80 points a season and serving as the man who can also shut down the opposition. The third C would be a lot like the 2C just on a lower level, probably just producing some 45-60 points on good seasons, but always one of the guys ruining the day for the opposition'sbest offensive weapons buy reading plays defensively like a champ.

So... this is not rocket science - only a lot of what you all are thinking put into words, right?

Now, with Detroit, I think you have a mix of D's that will develop your top 3 D-men in a few years centered around Seider and Edvisson. The third guy in that mix will be easier to get on the market once the club is ready to throw the gautlet and go for the championship, but he might also develop from one more of the pretty good bunch of prospects, right? You don't have a top goalie ready yet, but of course you hope Cossa will turn out to be the guy. Might also hit the jackpot on the market, goalies are so confussing to grasp.

The big reason, though, I think Yzerman is still being very patient about it all is that you still need a top center. You need this teams top players to be within an age group that makes it doable to make a run for 4-6 years, so this center has to be a little younger than Stamkos, and these young centres are not easy to buy in the market, and not easy to trade for. I can hear some protests saying that Larkin is clearly a top first center, but I disagree. He is really, really good, but in this perfect scenario (which you need to be a perennial challenger) Larkin is perfectly fitted to be the 2C-extra ordinaire. I don't know if Michael Rasmussen is quite a top 3C, but I think he will do.

I know it's crazy to leave out the wingers and rest of the team, but this is just a framework that I have been noticing over the years as golden for spotting when you see a challenger developing in front of you.


All this just to say, why I think Yzerman is still being slightly patient on his bets: He does want to do his best with the team every year, but so far he has not sacrified anything to ruin the possibility to go for gold within the next couple of years. Let's see what he manages to bring aboard the next few days.

The Walman trade: Well, he won so many trades over the years and picked up so many extra picks in the draft, he can afford to lose a few trades and in this case a paid one of many 2nd's he won in other trades to do so. Can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs.

Also remember that we are so far in the build up now that a second rounder in this years draft will probabaly not even be a player on this team when going for a run in one or two years. Yzerman's strategic view on draft choices will therefore change a little bit now to be able to optimize elsewhere. He's not gonna just start throwing them away, but he sure can afford passing on this one pick to SJ. Earlier in the rebuild he needed more picks to raise the possibility to find all these different pieces to the puzzle. Sometimes they fall from the sky when you didn't expect so (hello Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Datsyuk and so on), so early in a rebuild just stoke up as many picks as you can collect.

 

[Vandalay Industries]

Exceptional post. I only have one very minor "claim":

It seems to me, that Stamkos is to old too fit the mold of what Yzerman is building here.

It's absolutely possible to take a player at Stamkos' age, but not for that piece in the whole puzzle.

As I see it, Yzerman is still waiting to sort of catch a break on two spots, that you can barrely miss if you are going to go all in on a championship run: A sure shot goalie and a legit 1-2 punch at the center.

Now, when building a master class contender that will be able to challenge for 4-6 years (at least) you will need a strong (and steady) top goalie, a first, a second and a third center and a first, a second and a third defenseman with a nice mix of skills. I'll get back to that.

By top goalie I don't mean a goalie that is among the five besy in the league or anything measurable otherwise. I mean a goalie that doesn't lose games you were supposed to win. A goalie who will play as many games as needed and saving the shots the team "knows" he will take. I'm talking about a steady guy keeping us in the lane all the time. A back up is of course also needed, but they are easier to find.

On the D I need one offensive minded defenseman who can skate like only few other D's and create plays from the back, join the rush to a certain degree, maybe even do some rushes on his own when the opposition is caught out of position for whatever reason and quarterback the powerplay. I also need a top dog two way player with a physically strong presence on the back end, never losing his marks, checking hard, taking guys out in front of the net and so on and a capability to start plays from his own end, be it lead out passes, skating the puck to the middle of the ice or whatever. And a third D that is a top defensive player in the game without being so hopeless with the puck that you can only play third pairing. This third guy should be able to make the right decision with the puck all the time, but most of the time the easy solution is also the best. So, mostly: Just stay simple. But always be reliable. And defensively just being a wall that everyone hates playing against. I always think of Adam Foote as the best of these guys from the generation when I sort of developed this little model in my mind.

OK, on forward I'm concentrating on the C's: I need a real top offensive center. I don't need details here, right? On the second C though I need this guy to be a sure shot two way force. A Selke candidate. Hitting like 60-80 points a season and serving as the man who can also shut down the opposition. The third C would be a lot like the 2C just on a lower level, probably just producing some 45-60 points on good seasons, but always one of the guys ruining the day for the opposition'sbest offensive weapons buy reading plays defensively like a champ.

So... this is not rocket science - only a lot of what you all are thinking put into words, right?

Now, with Detroit, I think you have a mix of D's that will develop your top 3 D-men in a few years centered around Seider and Edvisson. The third guy in that mix will be easier to get on the market once the club is ready to throw the gautlet and go for the championship, but he might also develop from one more of the pretty good bunch of prospects, right? You don't have a top goalie ready yet, but of course you hope Cossa will turn out to be the guy. Might also hit the jackpot on the market, goalies are so confussing to grasp.

The big reason, though, I think Yzerman is still being very patient about it all is that you still need a top center. You need this teams top players to be within an age group that makes it doable to make a run for 4-6 years, so this center has to be a little younger than Stamkos, and these young centres are not easy to buy in the market, and not easy to trade for. I can hear some protests saying that Larkin is clearly a top first center, but I disagree. He is really, really good, but in this perfect scenario (which you need to be a perennial challenger) Larkin is perfectly fitted to be the 2C-extra ordinaire. I don't know if Michael Rasmussen is quite a top 3C, but I think he will do.

I know it's crazy to leave out the wingers and rest of the team, but this is just a framework that I have been noticing over the years as golden for spotting when you see a challenger developing in front of you.


All this just to say, why I think Yzerman is still being slightly patient on his bets: He does want to do his best with the team every year, but so far he has not sacrified anything to ruin the possibility to go for gold within the next couple of years. Let's see what he manages to bring aboard the next few days.

The Walman trade: Well, he won so many trades over the years and picked up so many extra picks in the draft, he can afford to lose a few trades and in this case a paid one of many 2nd's he won in other trades to do so. Can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs.

Also remember that we are so far in the build up now that a second rounder in this years draft will probabaly not even be a player on this team when going for a run in one or two years. Yzerman's strategic view on draft choices will therefore change a little bit now to be able to optimize elsewhere. He's not gonna just start throwing them away, but he sure can afford passing on this one pick to SJ. Earlier in the rebuild he needed more picks to raise the possibility to find all these different pieces to the puzzle. Sometimes they fall from the sky when you didn't expect so (hello Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Datsyuk and so on), so early in a rebuild just stoke up as many picks as you can collect.

I see, I left a loose end:

With the D's not exactly done developing into the 3-top-D nucleus he needs yet, Yzerman also has to stay patient a little bit longer. Had these guys been in place and with the 2C and 3C in place he could go harder on the market for the top C and also the G.

But I think Edvisson will take a long step next year and when he enters the frame Seider will also be even better since he will be asked to do slightly less, which will optimize his game in my opinion. Who will be the third D, I don't know, but it's not worrying me too much.