Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - Signed 2-Year Deal with Traktor Chelyabinsk

[StreetHawk]

What a disappointing outcome for a player given all the tools but none of the resilience to realize his potential. Him signing in Russia just tells me he is simply unwilling to put in a summer of work, to put in the necessary effort to play in the best league in the world. I have no respect for a player like that.

Pretty much knew that coming in. Just hoped a change of scenery would kickstart him, but it didn't.

One key thing about drafting someone from overseas is to gage their willingness to play in the A down the line, be it right after the draft or upwards of 3 years from the draft to adjust to the NHL game or work on finer points of their game. I'm sure all kids are trained and taught to say yes, so only so much you can do.

You get some with Podkolzin's attitude but also some with Kravstov's regarding the A.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Kravstov signing a KHL deal in his situation tells you all you need to know about his NHL ambitions. Hint: they are dead.

The idea behind "low cost bets" is that you can make a lot of them and the odds are that a percentage of them will pan out. The Canucks were wrong about Kravstov but, for a 7th round pick, it was worth the price to give him a shot. Concluding that "the pro scouting on this one stinks" is way over the top hyperbole.

If the Canucks were wrong about Kravtsov after 16 games, their pro scouting is highly suspect. To go from chasing this player to abandoning him on that sample is foolish.

An extremely low sample shouldn’t scuttle even a low cost bet. It means that it wasn’t a bet worth making at all.

 

[Bleach Clean]

It was basically a waiver claim on a top-10 pick who was pretty well documented as being unhappy in his previous organization and with his coach there.

Free hit to see if a fresh start with a new team unlocked something. It didn't, move on.

I have zero problems with it.

It wasn’t a free hit and 16 games shouldn’t swing an assessment from pass to fail (no middle ground). They were reported as having chased this player for some time. You think that doesn’t reflect on their ability to identify the probability of him as a bet? Ok…

 

[tradervik]

If the Canucks were wrong about Kravtsov after 16 games, their pro scouting is highly suspect. To go from chasing this player to abandoning him on that sample is foolish.

An extremely low sample shouldn’t scuttle even a low cost bet. It means that it wasn’t a bet worth making at all.

Kravstov bailed on the Canucks, not the other way 'round.

 

[MS]

It wasn’t a free hit and 16 games shouldn’t swing an assessment from pass to fail (no middle ground). They were reported as having chased this player for some time. You think that doesn’t reflect on their ability to identify the probability of him as a bet? Ok…

It was a free hit. A 7th in 2026 or whatever is totally worthless. Lockwood is UFA.

Kravtsov is a talented player, and he had a couple games here where he competed harder and you could see that he had the ability to be an NHL player if he could compete like that every night. I don't think it was a terrible bet to take a free hit on a guy like that and see if a new organization and new coach could hit the right note with him.

Kravstov bailed on the Canucks, not the other way 'round.

I'm guessing it was mutual - to me the writing was on the wall when he was healthy scratched for the last couple games of the season.

 

[tradervik]

I'm guessing it was mutual - to me the writing was on the wall when he was healthy scratched for the last couple games of the season.

I'd guess the Canucks told Kravstov (or his agent) that he'd probably have to play in the AHL and work his way back to the big league. If they don't bother qualifying him, we'll know what they really think.

 

[MS]

I'd guess the Canucks told Kravstov (or his agent) that he'd probably have to play in the AHL and work his way back to the big league. If they don't bother qualifying him, we'll know what they really think.

It would be silly to not qualify him at this point as there's zero downside to it.

You protect his rights in case he has a massive season in the KHL and it doesn't cost you anything.

 

[tradervik]

It would be silly to not qualify him at this point as there's zero downside to it.

You protect his rights in case he has a massive season in the KHL and it doesn't cost you anything.

How long will they retain his rights?

 

[MS]

How long will they retain his rights?

I think until he hits UFA age. Same situation as Tryamkin.

 

[krutovsdonut]

you miss all of the shots you don't take.

 

[Hodgy]

It wasn’t a free hit and 16 games shouldn’t swing an assessment from pass to fail (no middle ground). They were reported as having chased this player for some time. You think that doesn’t reflect on their ability to identify the probability of him as a bet? Ok…

The Canucks would have known it was unlikely that he would pan out....that's why he was traded for a 7th round pick. This isn't a pro-scouting "fail" in that it is probably the result their pro scouts expected. Again, he was traded for a 7th round pick.

Also, the Canucks aren't necessarily cutting bait after 16 games. I am sure they'd be fine with re-signing Kravstov if he was willing to play in the AHL to start the year. But obviously he wasn't willing to do that and that's why he's in the KHL. The Canucks can now qualify him and if they get really lucky then maybe he breaks out in the KHL and comes back in a couple of years as an NHL player.

 

[tradervik]

I think until he hits UFA age. Same situation as Tryamkin.

I just listened to a clip from Donnie & Dahlie, who reported the Canucks can retain his rights until 2027!

 

[Bleach Clean]

Kravstov bailed on the Canucks, not the other way 'round.

It’s both. He bailed on the team and they failed to understand the situation around this player. Net result, 16 mean nothing games and he’s gone.

 

[Hodgy]

It’s both. He bailed on the team and they failed to understand the situation around this player. Net result, 16 mean nothing games and he’s gone.

That's not actually the net result though.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

@EdJovanovski

You doing alright, dude?

 

[Bleach Clean]

It was a free hit. A 7th in 2026 or whatever is totally worthless. Lockwood is UFA.

Kravtsov is a talented player, and he had a couple games here where he competed harder and you could see that he had the ability to be an NHL player if he could compete like that every night. I don't think it was a terrible bet to take a free hit on a guy like that and see if a new organization and new coach could hit the right note with him.

It was not free. A 7th has a worth that reflects the opportunity to get a Pavelski, McDonough, Haula, Hansen (off the top of my head). That is not zero value.

I'm sure you could find times where he put in the effort in NYR too. This is hope based thinking. Banking everything on environment change and a player epiphany. Meanwhile, this particular player has shown traits anathema to coaching tendencies and has a very low exit threshold compared to NA only bets. Again, stupid bet, even if low.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

No joke, you have a better chance of "winning" this trade now that he's gone.

 

[F A N]

If the Canucks were wrong about Kravtsov after 16 games, their pro scouting is highly suspect. To go from chasing this player to abandoning him on that sample is foolish.

An extremely low sample shouldn’t scuttle even a low cost bet. It means that it wasn’t a bet worth making at all.

It wasn’t a free hit and 16 games shouldn’t swing an assessment from pass to fail (no middle ground). They were reported as having chased this player for some time. You think that doesn’t reflect on their ability to identify the probability of him as a bet? Ok…

I agree with the principles of what you are saying. I would say that it’s ok to change your mind about a player after seeing the player up close. It’s not unusual for “change of scenery” players to suddenly play well after a change of scenery and there being a multitude of reasons for the prior struggles that you really can’t see or know without being in the room so to speak.

With that said, you are right in asking essentially “what changed?” Were the Canucks expecting Kravtsov to step in and look like a middle 6 winger? His own coach talked about Kravtsov’s problems putting in the puck in the net and was too easily pushed off the puck in NY. He came advertised here which is disappointing but nevertheless should be in the realm of expectations for the Canucks. He needed a big summer and like you said 16 games shouldn’t typically swing an assessment.

It’s possible that this was merely situational. When I suggested giving him a 2 year contract a lot of posters here were against it because he hasn’t earned it. But the problem is that if the Canucks really have little to no confidence in Kravtsov having a place on the team next season then management probably expressed that too him either directly or indirectly. Kravtsov decided to take the sure thing.

This isn’t worst case scenario of course. Kravtsov will be a RFA in two years time and might be ready to be a good player in the NHL then.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The Canucks would have known it was unlikely that he would pan out....that's why he was traded for a 7th round pick. This isn't a pro-scouting "fail" in that it is probably the result their pro scouts expected. Again, he was traded for a 7th round pick.

Also, the Canucks aren't necessarily cutting bait after 16 games. I am sure they'd be fine with re-signing Kravstov if he was willing to play in the AHL to start the year. But obviously he wasn't willing to do that and that's why he's in the KHL. The Canucks can now qualify him and if they get really lucky then maybe he breaks out in the KHL and comes back in a couple of years as an NHL player.

Kravtsov wasn't willing to do that because the coach is effort and 2way play focused. It was inevitable that we would exit to the easier path given that environment.

The pro scouting expected this player to wash out of the system, effectively, after 16 games? I'll push back there. The pro-scouting and/or the GM should never expect a bet to wash out that quickly, even if the cost is low.

 

[Nick Lang]

They took a very small risk to see if he could put it together in a new situation. It didn't work out so far, good venture, but nothing gained nothing lost.

 

[Hansen]

It was not free. A 7th has a worth that reflects the opportunity to get a Pavelski, McDonough, Haula, Hansen (off the top of my head). That is not zero value.

I'm sure you could find times where he put in the effort in NYR too. This is hope based thinking. Banking everything on environment change and a player epiphany. Meanwhile, this particular player has shown traits anathema to coaching tendencies and has a very low exit threshold compared to NA only bets. Again, stupid bet, even if low.

How many thousands of players drafted in the 7th round not named along aside those four?

Its basically future considerations. It is the lowest nominal asset in the game

 

[MS]

It was not free. A 7th has a worth that reflects the opportunity to get a Pavelski, McDonough, Haula, Hansen (off the top of my head). That is not zero value.

I'm sure you could find times where he put in the effort in NYR too. This is hope based thinking. Banking everything on environment change and a player epiphany. Meanwhile, this particular player has shown traits anathema to coaching tendencies and has a very low exit threshold compared to NA only bets. Again, stupid bet, even if low.

A 7th is worthless. There's no difference between that and just signing and extra undrafted UFA. If anything the 7th has a lower success rate.

It's a weird thing to be upset about.

This was a talented player and high draft pick who pretty notoriously had a rocky relationship with his prior club (where he was also stuck behind two other high draft picks in Kaako and Lafreniere who were being prioritized). It cost basically nothing to see if a change of scenery could get something more out of him.

When Benning was trading 2nds and 3rds for this type of asset that was worth being mad about. This is literally nothing.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The 2026 7th round pick..the key pick to forever secure the NYR dynasty.

 

[Bleach Clean]

How many thousands of players drafted in the 7th round not named along aside those four?

Its basically future considerations. It is the lowest nominal asset in the game

The lowest asset price would be a waiver pick up/signing.

Again, if you don't want the chance, which are slight I know, trade the pick for 16 games of nothing.

 

[VanJack]

Probably the best result for both player and the Canucks......based on the 16-game sample size at the end of the season, there was no room for him on the Canucks.

Hard to even say if he'd even been qualified, at which point the Canucks would lost him for nothing. At least now, they retain his NHL rights. We'll see how he performs over the next two years in the KHL.....but not expecting we'll ever see him in NA again.