Prospect Info: Vitali Kravtsov: Part IX

[barriers]

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I'm not a big Quinn fan but it's crazy to suggest he ruins prospects, IMO. I criticized him heavily for how he used Andersson, but now I think maybe Andersson deserved the treatment and just isn't that good. Based on how he handled himself last season and what he has done this season.

You look at a Fox, or a Lindgren. They're great. People always go, "Oh, well they're just really good, and came to the NHL ready." People don't want to credit the coach for helping develop these guys because they were "ready" from the outset. They're better now than they were. No credit to the coach. Yet Lafreniere, who was supposed to be the most NHL-ready player in the draft, when he struggles it's the coach. Kakko, it's the coach. Do I like the way he uses them? Not necessarily, but I don't think he's ruining them. A lot of people killed him for how he handled DeAngelo, and he helped Tony for a season and a half become one of the preeminent PMD's in the game. Chytil, he's a guy who is up and down. Is that on the coach? It's amazing because you read all the complaining about the line combos and usage, and if you listened to the board collectively we'd have 9 guys getting first-line TOI and PP1 time every game. Doesn't work that way. You have a lot of young guys, you have to do a lot of juggling. Sometimes the young guys will get squeezed. The coach is also trying to win and can't just force a lineup of unproductive young players just because we all want Kakko and Lafreniere to play 20 minutes.

So many are so quick to condemn, but refuse to praise. Look, I don't like it when he seems like he forgets about a guy, or overplays a Brett Howden, or how he force-feeds certain guys big minutes. And I don't think he's the coach for this team long term. But he's not nearly as bad as some here portray him to be (and I'm not talking heat-of-the-moment, fire-everyone stuff).

Exactly. It goes both ways. Like I said, I'm not a Quinn lover but lets be fair.

 

[pblawr]

I'm not a big Quinn fan but it's crazy to suggest he ruins prospects, IMO. I criticized him heavily for how he used Andersson, but now I think maybe Andersson deserved the treatment and just isn't that good. Based on how he handled himself last season and what he has done this season.

You look at a Fox, or a Lindgren. They're great. People always go, "Oh, well they're just really good, and came to the NHL ready." People don't want to credit the coach for helping develop these guys because they were "ready" from the outset. They're better now than they were. No credit to the coach. Yet Lafreniere, who was supposed to be the most NHL-ready player in the draft, when he struggles it's the coach. Kakko, it's the coach. Do I like the way he uses them? Not necessarily, but I don't think he's ruining them. A lot of people killed him for how he handled DeAngelo, and he helped Tony for a season and a half become one of the preeminent PMD's in the game. Chytil, he's a guy who is up and down. Is that on the coach? It's amazing because you read all the complaining about the line combos and usage, and if you listened to the board collectively we'd have 9 guys getting first-line TOI and PP1 time every game. Doesn't work that way. You have a lot of young guys, you have to do a lot of juggling. Sometimes the young guys will get squeezed. The coach is also trying to win and can't just force a lineup of unproductive young players just because we all want Kakko and Lafreniere to play 20 minutes.

So many are so quick to condemn, but refuse to praise. Look, I don't like it when he seems like he forgets about a guy, or overplays a Brett Howden, or how he force-feeds certain guys big minutes. And I don't think he's the coach for this team long term. But he's not nearly as bad as some here portray him to be (and I'm not talking heat-of-the-moment, fire-everyone stuff).

How many of the guys who blame everything on Quinn being a terrible coach do you think are the same guys who blamed everything on AV being a terrible coach?

 

[LORDE]

I'm not a big Quinn fan but it's crazy to suggest he ruins prospects, IMO. I criticized him heavily for how he used Andersson, but now I think maybe Andersson deserved the treatment and just isn't that good. Based on how he handled himself last season and what he has done this season.

You look at a Fox, or a Lindgren. They're great. People always go, "Oh, well they're just really good, and came to the NHL ready." People don't want to credit the coach for helping develop these guys because they were "ready" from the outset. They're better now than they were. No credit to the coach. Yet Lafreniere, who was supposed to be the most NHL-ready player in the draft, when he struggles it's the coach. Kakko, it's the coach. Do I like the way he uses them? Not necessarily, but I don't think he's ruining them. A lot of people killed him for how he handled DeAngelo, and he helped Tony for a season and a half become one of the preeminent PMD's in the game. Chytil, he's a guy who is up and down. Is that on the coach? It's amazing because you read all the complaining about the line combos and usage, and if you listened to the board collectively we'd have 9 guys getting first-line TOI and PP1 time every game. Doesn't work that way. You have a lot of young guys, you have to do a lot of juggling. Sometimes the young guys will get squeezed. The coach is also trying to win and can't just force a lineup of unproductive young players just because we all want Kakko and Lafreniere to play 20 minutes.

So many are so quick to condemn, but refuse to praise. Look, I don't like it when he seems like he forgets about a guy, or overplays a Brett Howden, or how he force-feeds certain guys big minutes. And I don't think he's the coach for this team long term. But he's not nearly as bad as some here portray him to be (and I'm not talking heat-of-the-moment, fire-everyone stuff).

I don't come here for objective, rational, well thought out posts.

Thanks for playin!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

How many of the guys who blame everything on Quinn being a terrible coach do you think are the same guys who blamed everything on AV being a terrible coach?

AV is a terrible coach though?

He has an out of the box playoff roster that he is coaching into lottery territory. Quinn has a shit load of faults, most of them have really reared their ugly head this season but what AV is doing with the Flyers this year is 1000000x worse than what Quinn has done.

 

[kovazub94]

Kravtsov is a 4th goalie?

 

[Trueblue30]

AV is a terrible coach though?

He has an out of the box playoff roster that he is coaching into lottery territory. Quinn has a shit load of faults, most of them have really reared their ugly head this season but what AV is doing with the Flyers this year is 1000000x worse than what Quinn has done.

Not sure about that. Personally I never really liked the flyers roster this year or last year. Thought they were big time overachievers last season.

rangers roster to me is pretty superior to the flyers roster on talent

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not sure about that. Personally I never really liked the flyers roster this year or last year. Thought they were big time overachievers last season.

rangers roster to me is pretty superior to the flyers roster on talent

Top end talent? Sure, they don't have a Panarin or Zibanejad.

Their depth is better than ours. And at the very least they have more established talent. Honestly I look at their roster and just based on the players I would easily take their team over Pittsburgh or NYI.

AV's issues in Philly are the same as they were in NY. He installed a system that he doesn't have the horses for and refuses to adjust it at all. Things looked ugly towards the end of his stay in NY and this year in Philly because he isn't getting the goaltending to bail him out. Im going to laugh when he ends up getting his way and they trade for someone like Marc Staal who is as far from a fit for what they want to do and they end up becoming even worse. It's what AV does.

But heres another way to look at it, Zibanejad sucked for most of the season and Panarin was absent for 9 games and they're still about on the same level as the Rangers. Quinn hasn't helped himself or the team this year either, so that should tell you what you need to know about this AV led Flyers squad.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Top end talent? Sure, they don't have a Panarin or Zibanejad.

Their depth is better than ours. And at the very least they have more established talent. Honestly I look at their roster and just based on the players I would easily take their team over Pittsburgh or NYI.

AV's issues in Philly are the same as they were in NY. He installed a system that he doesn't have the horses for and refuses to adjust it at all. Things looked ugly towards the end of his stay in NY and this year in Philly because he isn't getting the goaltending to bail him out. Im going to laugh when he ends up getting his way and they trade for someone like Marc Staal who is as far from a fit for what they want to do and they end up becoming even worse. It's what AV does.

But heres another way to look at it, Zibanejad sucked for most of the season and Panarin was absent for 9 games and they're still about on the same level as the Rangers. Quinn hasn't helped himself or the team this year either, so that should tell you what you need to know about this AV led Flyers squad.

Imagine being Marc Staal, and hearing that AV was looking into getting him on Philly

He knows damn well that he isn't an NHLer at this point, and that that system is only going to highlight it. He must be terrified.

 

[Kodiak]

I'm not a big Quinn fan but it's crazy to suggest he ruins prospects, IMO. I criticized him heavily for how he used Andersson, but now I think maybe Andersson deserved the treatment and just isn't that good. Based on how he handled himself last season and what he has done this season.

You look at a Fox, or a Lindgren. They're great. People always go, "Oh, well they're just really good, and came to the NHL ready." People don't want to credit the coach for helping develop these guys because they were "ready" from the outset. They're better now than they were. No credit to the coach. Yet Lafreniere, who was supposed to be the most NHL-ready player in the draft, when he struggles it's the coach. Kakko, it's the coach. Do I like the way he uses them? Not necessarily, but I don't think he's ruining them. A lot of people killed him for how he handled DeAngelo, and he helped Tony for a season and a half become one of the preeminent PMD's in the game. Chytil, he's a guy who is up and down. Is that on the coach? It's amazing because you read all the complaining about the line combos and usage, and if you listened to the board collectively we'd have 9 guys getting first-line TOI and PP1 time every game. Doesn't work that way. You have a lot of young guys, you have to do a lot of juggling. Sometimes the young guys will get squeezed. The coach is also trying to win and can't just force a lineup of unproductive young players just because we all want Kakko and Lafreniere to play 20 minutes.

So many are so quick to condemn, but refuse to praise. Look, I don't like it when he seems like he forgets about a guy, or overplays a Brett Howden, or how he force-feeds certain guys big minutes. And I don't think he's the coach for this team long term. But he's not nearly as bad as some here portray him to be (and I'm not talking heat-of-the-moment, fire-everyone stuff).

To a significant number of posters, Quinn is the Bitch Eating Crackers. As far as they are concerned, anything good that happens is in spite of Quinn and anything bad that happens is because of Quinn. There's no conversation to be had there.

 

[Chytilmania]

I'm not a big Quinn fan but it's crazy to suggest he ruins prospects, IMO. I criticized him heavily for how he used Andersson, but now I think maybe Andersson deserved the treatment and just isn't that good. Based on how he handled himself last season and what he has done this season.

You look at a Fox, or a Lindgren. They're great. People always go, "Oh, well they're just really good, and came to the NHL ready." People don't want to credit the coach for helping develop these guys because they were "ready" from the outset. They're better now than they were. No credit to the coach. Yet Lafreniere, who was supposed to be the most NHL-ready player in the draft, when he struggles it's the coach. Kakko, it's the coach. Do I like the way he uses them? Not necessarily, but I don't think he's ruining them. A lot of people killed him for how he handled DeAngelo, and he helped Tony for a season and a half become one of the preeminent PMD's in the game. Chytil, he's a guy who is up and down. Is that on the coach? It's amazing because you read all the complaining about the line combos and usage, and if you listened to the board collectively we'd have 9 guys getting first-line TOI and PP1 time every game. Doesn't work that way. You have a lot of young guys, you have to do a lot of juggling. Sometimes the young guys will get squeezed. The coach is also trying to win and can't just force a lineup of unproductive young players just because we all want Kakko and Lafreniere to play 20 minutes.

So many are so quick to condemn, but refuse to praise. Look, I don't like it when he seems like he forgets about a guy, or overplays a Brett Howden, or how he force-feeds certain guys big minutes. And I don't think he's the coach for this team long term. But he's not nearly as bad as some here portray him to be (and I'm not talking heat-of-the-moment, fire-everyone stuff).

My main question, I won't call it a criticism yet, is why are the NCAA defensemen looking great but our 1st rounders that aren't American struggling? Could be a coincidence, could be he does better with defensemen, could be he does better with NCAA guys. IDK but there seems to be a trend there.

 

[Gr8CornHolio]

I'm not a big Quinn fan but it's crazy to suggest he ruins prospects, IMO. I criticized him heavily for how he used Andersson, but now I think maybe Andersson deserved the treatment and just isn't that good. Based on how he handled himself last season and what he has done this season.

You look at a Fox, or a Lindgren. They're great. People always go, "Oh, well they're just really good, and came to the NHL ready." People don't want to credit the coach for helping develop these guys because they were "ready" from the outset. They're better now than they were. No credit to the coach. Yet Lafreniere, who was supposed to be the most NHL-ready player in the draft, when he struggles it's the coach. Kakko, it's the coach. Do I like the way he uses them? Not necessarily, but I don't think he's ruining them. A lot of people killed him for how he handled DeAngelo, and he helped Tony for a season and a half become one of the preeminent PMD's in the game. Chytil, he's a guy who is up and down. Is that on the coach? It's amazing because you read all the complaining about the line combos and usage, and if you listened to the board collectively we'd have 9 guys getting first-line TOI and PP1 time every game. Doesn't work that way. You have a lot of young guys, you have to do a lot of juggling. Sometimes the young guys will get squeezed. The coach is also trying to win and can't just force a lineup of unproductive young players just because we all want Kakko and Lafreniere to play 20 minutes.

So many are so quick to condemn, but refuse to praise. Look, I don't like it when he seems like he forgets about a guy, or overplays a Brett Howden, or how he force-feeds certain guys big minutes. And I don't think he's the coach for this team long term. But he's not nearly as bad as some here portray him to be (and I'm not talking heat-of-the-moment, fire-everyone stuff).

This is a very well written post. We are lucky to not have to rush our young players and let them develop even if its on the 3rd line.

The one thing I think that irks most people is Quinn is coaching this like its a win now team. Yes Blackwell was playing well for a while, but this team is rebuilding and is a 27 year old journeymen part of our future? Definitely not.

One of Kakko or Laf should of been up on that line with Strome and Panarin if for anything to try and build chemistry and confidence. Even if playing poorly it allows them to sit next to Panarin or Strome on the bench between shifts and be apart of their discussions re strategy.

 

[mrhockey193195]

This is a very well written post. We are lucky to not have to rush our young players and let them develop even if its on the 3rd line.

The one thing I think that irks most people is Quinn is coaching this like its a win now team. Yes Blackwell was playing well for a while, but this team is rebuilding and is a 27 year old journeymen part of our future? Definitely not.

One of Kakko or Laf should of been up on that line with Strome and Panarin if for anything to try and build chemistry and confidence. Even if playing poorly it allows them to sit next to Panarin or Strome on the bench between shifts and be apart of their discussions re strategy.

Playing Devil's Advocate, there's something to be said about what it teaches your young players when you reward a guy like Blackwell with ice time. "See that guy? If you commit yourself like he has, you'll earn a spot on the top line". A lot of people look at situations like Edmonton and feel like that's what happens when you just automatically give top prospects (Eberle, RNH, Hall, etc.) ice time and reward them even if they are being outworked by blue collar teammates.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Playing Devil's Advocate, there's something to be said about what it teaches your young players when you reward a guy like Blackwell with ice time. "See that guy? If you commit yourself like he has, you'll earn a spot on the top line". A lot of people look at situations like Edmonton and feel like that's what happens when you just automatically give top prospects (Eberle, RNH, Hall, etc.) ice time and reward them even if they are being outworked by blue collar teammates.

100%

Playing Blackwell, there, and making Kakko earn that spot was the right move. Without question.

 

[Gr8CornHolio]

Playing Devil's Advocate, there's something to be said about what it teaches your young players when you reward a guy like Blackwell with ice time. "See that guy? If you commit yourself like he has, you'll earn a spot on the top line". A lot of people look at situations like Edmonton and feel like that's what happens when you just automatically give top prospects (Eberle, RNH, Hall, etc.) ice time and reward them even if they are being outworked by blue collar teammates.

Very good point didn't run through my mind at all. On the flip side there was an interesting interview with Buchnevich where he was talking about how all the line juggling got into his head early on, and he was playing more worried about losing ice time then actually playing.

Guess it could work both ways hopefully you are right!

 

[nyr2k2]

To a significant number of posters, Quinn is the Bitch Eating Crackers. As far as they are concerned, anything good that happens is in spite of Quinn and anything bad that happens is because of Quinn. There's no conversation to be had there.

Right. This was the same thing that happened with Sather, once Gorton was hired. Every good move was, "This has Gorton's handprints all over it!" Every move we didn't like, it was, "Sather is awful, he needs to retire and let Gorton run the show."

My main question, I won't call it a criticism yet, is why are the NCAA defensemen looking great but our 1st rounders that aren't American struggling? Could be a coincidence, could be he does better with defensemen, could be he does better with NCAA guys. IDK but there seems to be a trend there.

It's possible. Cultural differences are real, and Quinn may have a harder time getting through to young, non-North American players. I don't know the dynamics well enough to say for sure. Like I said, I don't love the guy, but I do think he has had some positive impacts.

 

[cheech70]

Besides Kandre who is bigger than Vitaly?

 

[TheDirtyH]

Sample size. You shouldn't include players who played 1 or 2 games.

It's interesting though to see the NYR Stats & Info Twitter account talk about GvA/60 all of a sudden

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I guess.

Let the record show I was on the takeaways first lol

 

[mrhockey193195]

Very good point didn't run through my mind at all. On the flip side there was an interesting interview with Buchnevich where he was talking about how all the line juggling got into his head early on, and he was playing more worried about losing ice time then actually playing.

Guess it could work both ways hopefully you are right!

100%. I'm pretty averse to constant line juggling myself. It's definitely not black and white, and there's a right balance in there somewhere...I certainly don't have a clue what that balance is . But I'm sympathetic to the reality that it's not just as easy as "play your 1st round pick on the top line no matter what".

 

[mrhockey193195]

100%

Playing Blackwell, there, and making Kakko earn that spot was the right move. Without question.

And now that Kakko is getting his chance, if he plays like he has these last couple games, he 100% should stay on that top line. Accountability and consistency are crucial. And yes, certainly the top prospects and superstars will get a little more leeway and more chances - as they should.

 

[xsniper11x]

100%

Playing Blackwell, there, and making Kakko earn that spot was the right move. Without question.

Yes, and it’s no coincidence it was a player like Blackwell. A guy with strong ethic, with a motor who works hard to pressure the opposition. That’s what Quinn, Gorton and Co are looking to build and I think it’s the right approach.

Look around the league at all the super young talent around. Have any of their teams had much success despite all their pts? There’s a way to play that allows players to impress stat watchers (see PHI, VAN, WPG, TOR. Avs are TBD) and a way to play that wins cups. Letting players get comfortable floating as long as they put up points isn’t a recipe for success. The sooner our young group learns that, the better off we’ll be as a team in the long run.

 

[LORDE]

Yes, and it’s no coincidence it was a player like Blackwell. A guy with strong ethic, with a motor who works hard to pressure the opposition. That’s what Quinn, Gorton and Co are looking to build and I think it’s the right approach.

Look around the league at all the super young talent around. Have any of their teams had much success despite all their pts? There’s a way to play that allows players to impress stat watchers (see PHI, VAN, WPG, TOR. Avs are TBD) and a way to play that wins cups. Letting players get comfortable floating as long as they put up points isn’t a recipe for success. The sooner our young group learns that, the better off we’ll be as a team in the long run.

Soooo we don't want Crosby... er Ovie... er McDavid

We want? (and yes I used McDavid purposely for his lack of... winning team)

Point being we want talent... but talent in lower leagues doesn't equal talent in the NHL. Let's hope he can play here

 

[NYRFANMANI]

100%

Playing Blackwell, there, and making Kakko earn that spot was the right move. Without question.

Are you guys trying to make the coach look good?!?!

Because let me tell you, it's working.

 

[EXTRAS]

Is kravtsov playing on any specific line at practice?

 

[cwede]

Is kravtsov playing on any specific line at practice?

Mollie's article today:"He skated with the bottom six for a bit, but primarily watched while the team took line rushes ahead of Thursday’s matchup in Philadelphia"
Rangers don’t want pressure piled on Vitali Kravtsov

if i were king, he'd play for Pack tomorrow and Saturday
... but i ain't and he won't