Prospect Info: Vitali Kravtsov: Part IX

[dshea19]

My hope is that when he comes over, he observes Panarin and is influenced by him. He doesn't need to copy his game, but just pick up his work ethic and motor. Just a little bit of that will pay dividends that will push him closer to the 70pt guy than the 40pt.

 

[nyr2k2]

He was scoreless today with 2 SOG. He did log 20:27 which was third on the team and second among forwards.

 

[Sayba]

Sounds a lot like Kovalev when he was here

At essentially the same age Kovalev had a 56 point season and 21 points in the playoffs as a major piece of our 94 cup win. Yes they're both Russian but Kratvsov isn't even close to him at this stage.

 

[True Blue]

At essentially the same age Kovalev had a 56 point season and 21 points in the playoffs as a major piece of our 94 cup win. Yes they're both Russian but Kratvsov isn't even close to him at this stage.

Who said anything about anything having to do with both of them being Russian?

The entire context of the conversation that I had with Edge was regarding sometimes you see and they are dominating and sometimes being invisible; both not being drivers so much and may need to play with better players. Inconsistent. I have not realized that such traits are solely reserved for when comparing Russian players.

 

[Lua]

We should consider ourselves lucky if Kravtsov ever becomes a 50 point player

 

[Edge]

At essentially the same age Kovalev had a 56 point season and 21 points in the playoffs as a major piece of our 94 cup win. Yes they're both Russian but Kratvsov isn't even close to him at this stage.

I think it's meant more in the sense that you have players with very showy, world-class level skills, in a style that is not as emphasized in North America/other parts of Europe, and that the expression of those skills sometimes doesn't quite produce the results one might imagine.

 

[Richard Banger]

We should consider ourselves lucky if Kravtsov ever becomes a 50 point player

What the f*** is happening? What went wrong in these past few weeks?

everyone needs to chill. he’s going to be either an important player for NYR or he’s going to be part of a trade that gets us the player that gets NYR over the edge.

 

[Mikos87]

I'd be curious to learn if he gets guidance from the Rangers while he's in Russia on a consistent basis, or if the KHL team oversees everything. If much of the game is mental with Vitali, then playing with a clear head and having fun should bring the best out of him.

 

[Sayba]

I think it's meant more in the sense that you have players with very showy, world-class level skills, in a style that is not as emphasized in North America/other parts of Europe, and that the expression of those skills sometimes doesn't quite produce the results one might imagine.

I get the style comparison but I think there is only 1 Kovalev. His skills were just on another level with the puck handling.

Not saying he is on the same level but it's like when ppl compare running backs to Barry Sanders.

 

[CaptTennille]

I've made it a point to watch almost all of Kravtsov's games this season and I can't honestly say I'm all that disappointed. He's on a cold streak right now, but like most catch-and-release shooters he is either going to be red hot or stone-cold. If anything, I think NYR brass would rather see how he responds when the goals aren't coming (Is he cheating to re-ignite his offense?Is he gripping the stick too hard?Is his frustration visible? etc.)

If the front office was hoping Vitali could re-wire some of those neurons to be more engaged without the puck, he is currently in one of the best possible positions to do so.

 

[kovazub94]

I've made it a point to watch almost all of Kravtsov's games this season and I can't honestly say I'm all that disappointed. He's on a cold streak right now, but like most catch-and-release shooters he is either going to be red hot or stone-cold. If anything, I think NYR brass would rather see how he responds when the goals aren't coming (Is he cheating to re-ignite his offense?Is he gripping the stick too hard?Is his frustration visible? etc.)

If the front office was hoping Vitali could re-wire some of those neurons to be more engaged without the puck, he is currently in one of the best possible positions to do so.

Exactly. One of the things that are clearly apparent is that he is not finding / taking shooting opportunities as much as earlier in the season and it's natural for a prospect during the cold streak to actual start deferring his shots to linemates rather than continue to shoot to get out of the slump.

 

[Edge]

I get the style comparison but I think there is only 1 Kovalev. His skills were just on another level with the puck handling.

Not saying he is on the same level but it's like when ppl compare running backs to Barry Sanders.

I honestly think it was strictly meant as a style comparison in terms of having top shelf talent, but not necessarily always have a consistent way to apply it.

 

[Edge]

What the f*** is happening? What went wrong in these past few weeks?

everyone needs to chill. he’s going to be either an important player for NYR or he’s going to be part of a trade that gets us the player that gets NYR over the edge.

I think in the absence of hockey in North America a lot of fans are following, or at least tracking leagues across the world. That can be a good thing.

It can also be easy to get fixated on the ebb of flow of prospects, sometimes over-analyze things and then either get too high or too low on a prospect.

Kravtsov has looked outstanding at times this season, and looked average at other times. Unfortunately, this isn't really new for him and jives with the chatter back in 2018 that you're looking at a player who, from a skill standpoint, was near the top of his class, but didn't always perform like the best in his class.

I think we have to bump the breaks on bust talk, etc. Busts still don't do typically do what he's done to this point, even if that means he doesn't hit the Tarasenko, or Kutznetsov production levels. (And BTW the latter didn't start to resemble the player we've come to know until his age 23/24 season).

 

[nyr2k2]

I think we have to bump the breaks on bust talk, etc. Busts still don't do typically do what he's done to this point, even if that means he doesn't hit the Tarasenko, or Kutznetsov production levels. (And BTW the latter didn't start to resemble the player we've come to know until his age 23/24 season).

Sure, in the NHL. In the KHL between the ages of 19-21 he played 100 games and had 88 points. I don't think anyone is expecting Kravtsov to jump to the NHL this year or next and become Kuznetsov, but his KHL production isn't even remotely close. And Kuzy wasn't buoyed by awesome teammates or anything--he was the best player and leading scorer on his team those two seasons. I'm just looking for consistent production in the KHL; I'm not even worried about the NHL at this stage.

 

[Edge]

Sure, in the NHL. In the KHL between the ages of 19-21 he played 100 games and had 88 points. I don't think anyone is expecting Kravtsov to jump to the NHL this year or next and become Kuznetsov, but his KHL production isn't even remotely close. And Kuzy wasn't buoyed by awesome teammates or anything--he was the best player and leading scorer on his team those two seasons. I'm just looking for consistent production in the KHL; I'm not even worried about the NHL at this stage.

That's fine, but he doesn't have to be Kuznetsov to have a very good NHL career. And based on what he's done, warts and all, that tends to point to more than a 40 point player.

I know you're not saying this, but it's not Kuztnetsov or bust. And that's ultimately what I hope people remember.

 

[romba]

What the f*** is happening? What went wrong in these past few weeks?

everyone needs to chill. he’s going to be either an important player for NYR or he’s going to be part of a trade that gets us the player that gets NYR over the edge.

Edit: I see your point now, the poster you quoted said we should consider ourselves lucky if VK hits 50 and that's a pretty low bar to consider ourselves 'lucky'.

 

[Edge]

Edit: I see your point now, the poster you quoted said we should consider ourselves lucky if VK hits 50 and that's a pretty low bar to consider ourselves 'lucky'.

I dunno, would you be happy with Chris Kreider like production?

He's never scored more than 28 goals, or scored more than 53 points in a season, and we've joked that he is consistently inconsistent from a production standpoint.

But let's say Kravtsov's career follows a similar production arch, that's good value there. Maybe not the 70 point ceiling you'd hope for, but if you get a 50 point forward, and maybe two other NHL players from that draft, that's pretty much a homerun.

Around 50 points would put you near the top 100 or so scorers in the NHL. Heck, getting just 6 more points bumps you up into high 70s or low 80s among NHL scorers.

 

[romba]

I dunno, would you be happy with Chris Kreider like production?

He's never scored more than 28 goals, or scored more than 53 points in a season, and we've joked that he is consistently inconsistent from a production standpoint.

But let's say Kravtsov's career follows a similar production arch, that's good value there. Maybe not the 70 point ceiling you'd hope for, but if you get a 50 point forward, and maybe two other NHL players from that draft, that's pretty much a homerun.

Around 50 points would put you near the top 100 or so scorers in the NHL. Heck, getting just 6 more points bumps you up into high 70s or low 80s among NHL scorers.

I'd be VERY happy with CK like production, but would I consider us 'lucky'? Probably not.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I dunno, would you be happy with Chris Kreider like production?

He's never scored more than 28 goals, or scored more than 53 points in a season, and we've joked that he is consistently inconsistent from a production standpoint.

But let's say Kravtsov's career follows a similar production arch, that's good value there. Maybe not the 70 point ceiling you'd hope for, but if you get a 50 point forward, and maybe two other NHL players from that draft, that's pretty much a homerun.

Around 50 points would put you near the top 100 or so scorers in the NHL. Heck, getting just 6 more points bumps you up into high 70s or low 80s among NHL scorers.

The problem with a bunch of fans (not pointing fingers here at you of course) is that they have a "star-or-bust" mentality when it comes to players. A lot of fans are unhappy with Buchnevich because he isn't putting up 80 points.

You still need middle-six players. If Kravtsov tops out as a 50-55 point player, you can say it's diappointing considering where he was drafted but in the context of what other players in the 8-10 range put up, it wouldn't be wildly out of place.

You will never have 6 P/GP players on your team. With Kakko on the right, Lafrenière and Panarin on the left having Kravtsov chip in with 50 points would give us great top-6 depth on the wing

 

[bl02]

The problem with a bunch of fans (not pointing fingers here at you of course) is that they have a "star-or-bust" mentality when it comes to players. A lot of fans are unhappy with Buchnevich because he isn't putting up 80 points.

You still need middle-six players. If Kravtsov tops out as a 50-55 point player, you can say it's diappointing considering where he was drafted but in the context of what other players in the 8-10 range put up, it wouldn't be wildly out of place.

You will never have 6 P/GP players on your team. With Kakko on the right, Lafrenière and Panarin on the left having Kravtsov chip in with 50 points would give us great top-6 depth on the wing

question is whether Kravtsov can bring the energy and style of play to be a bottom 6 guy. Will his defense be good enough.
When he was drafted most of us were expecting a no doubt top 6 guy.
Of course I would be happy with him being a 50-60 point guy. Hopefully with the incredible depth at wing we won’t need him to be even close to a ppg player.
I know he’s still super young but watching him he doesn’t strike me as an effective bottom 6 line kinda guy. I’m still truly hoping he can fill what Buch does plus maybe a little more IF Buch gets traded or let go down the line.

 

[Edge]

The problem with a bunch of fans (not pointing fingers here at you of course) is that they have a "star-or-bust" mentality when it comes to players. A lot of fans are unhappy with Buchnevich because he isn't putting up 80 points.

You still need middle-six players. If Kravtsov tops out as a 50-55 point player, you can say it's diappointing considering where he was drafted but in the context of what other players in the 8-10 range put up, it wouldn't be wildly out of place.

You will never have 6 P/GP players on your team. With Kakko on the right, Lafrenière and Panarin on the left having Kravtsov chip in with 50 points would give us great top-6 depth on the wing

If Kravtsov is in the 50-60 point range, I personally would be okay with us taking him where we did. Obviously you'd love to get 60-70 points, but I don't think I'd be terribly disappointed either.

The reality is that regardless of how nice it is to dream, even if we become an offensive powerhouse like Toronto or Tampa, you're not going to see a roster where Lafreniere, Kakko, Zibanejad and Panarin all hover around 90-100 points, while Kravtsov, Chytil and Kreider all score 60-70, and Buch, ADA and Fox all score 50+, with Miller, Lundkvist and company all trending upward offensively.

I know the immediate reaction to that statement is, "Of course not, Edge. Most people know that."

That's true, most people do know that. But let's be honest, on some level we do kind of hope for that and part of us wants to see how close to that we can get. We don't want to imagine any of those names performing at "less than" those levels. Shit, I'll throw my name into that hat.

My gut tells me that if Kravtsov sticks around (and that's not a given, going all the way back to talks with Toronto), he's probably going to be one of those guys that fans and the board debate a bit. In that sense, he'll probably occupy the real estate currently owned by Buch and Kreider on the wings.

That's not a bad ROI by any strech, but it will be seen as "less than" by a lot of fans --- and that's understandable.

 

[Edge]

question is whether Kravtsov can bring the energy and style of play to be a bottom 6 guy. Will his defense be good enough.
When he was drafted most of us were expecting a no doubt top 6 guy.
Of course I would be happy with him being a 50-60 point guy. Hopefully with the incredible depth at wing we won’t need him to be even close to a ppg player.
I know he’s still super young but watching him he doesn’t strike me as an effective bottom 6 line kinda guy. I’m still truly hoping he can fill what Buch does plus maybe a little more IF Buch gets traded or let go down the line.

One of the things to also keep in mind is that there's a decent production spread when we look at top six scoring in the NHL.

You have your line drivers and core players, but they tend to be spread out. So you might have a situation where Kravtsov is playing on a first line with Lafreniere and scoring 50 points, whereas Kakko is on the "second" line scoring 80.

I say that mainly because top six production, depending on team makeup and combinations, can be anywhere from 50 points to 100. I hate to use the word nuanced again, because it's become a crutch word for me lately, but it really is a little more detailed than 5o vs. 60 points, or first line vs. second line.

I think Kravtsov is talented enough to put up points in a support role, especially if Lafreniere and Kakko fulfill their potential. He just probably won't be the catalyst his skill level dicates he could. Frankly, a guy like Chytil will probably end up in the same boat.

But, if indeed Kakko and Lafreniere hit their ceilings, it's okay if Chytil and Kravtsov aren't quite the 60+ guys we'd really hoped them to be.

 

[nyr2k2]

If Kravtsov became a big, strong, 50+ point wing who was committed if not excellent on the defensive side, I would take that every day of the week.

 

[bl02]

One of the things to also keep in mind is that there's a decent production spread when we look at top six scoring in the NHL.

You have your line drivers and core players, but they tend to be spread out. So you might have a situation where Kravtsov is playing on a first line with Lafreniere and scoring 50 points, whereas Kakko is on the "second" line scoring 80.

I say that mainly because top six production, depending on team makeup and combinations, can be anywhere from 50 points to 100. I hate to use the word nuanced again, because it's become a crutch word for me lately, but it really is a little more detailed than 5o vs. 60 points, or first line vs. second line.

I think Kravtsov is talented enough to put up points in a support role, especially if Lafreniere and Kakko fulfill their potential. He just probably won't be the catalyst his skill level dicates he could. Frankly, a guy like Chytil will probably end up in the same boat.

But, if indeed Kakko and Lafreniere hit their ceilings, it's okay if Chytil and Kravtsov aren't quite the 60+ guys we'd really hoped them to be.

Yep Kakko (hopefully) and Lafreniere have eased the worries of Kravy having to be a line driving force kinda guy. He's still gonna have show he would belong on a first or second line with the likes of Zibby and Lafreniere. Will he fit on a line like that vs a guy who brings a different style of game?
We will have to be patient and see what kind of player Kravtsov develops into. Hoping by 2022-2023 we will see what we have with him.
I'm thinking the Rangers hopefully see him as a guy who could replace Buch. If Kakko and Lafreniere come close to or hit their ceiling that would be totally ok.

 

[bl02]

If Kravtsov became a big, strong, 50+ point wing who was committed if not excellent on the defensive side, I would take that every day of the week.

Totally ok with that and mostly because we were fortunate enough to pick two wingers AFTER 2018 who are/should be better than him.