I wouldn't say it's a weird league. The KHL is closer to the AHL than NHL. Success in the KHL tends to translate very well to the AHL (although not as much vice versa). A star AHL player who isn't slow by AHL standards will likely do well at the KHL level. It probably has a lot to do with time and space and defense. A lot of star AHL players can't translate their games to the NHL because of time and space and defense.
Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I wouldn't say it's a weird league. The KHL is closer to the AHL than NHL. Success in the KHL tends to translate very well to the AHL (although not as much vice versa). A star AHL player who isn't slow by AHL standards will likely do well at the KHL level. It probably has a lot to do with time and space and defense. A lot of star AHL players can't translate their games to the NHL because of time and space and defense.
ChilliBilly
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Depends on what sort of salary they were offering him in the AHL methinks. And he spent a year in the AHL already. It really depends on what sort of money he is getting. Certainly he is more likely to want to play in Russia where he is at home if there is no financial benefit of playing in the AHL.
give him a decent 2 way contract next year with an out clause in it allowing him to go home. Say $1.2M / $500K. He's not an UFA until 2027 (I Think) and I don't think he has to clear waivers next year. I can understand him not want to play in the minors on an ELC. Have no idea what his AHL salary was when he was here.
Edit - just a note, when he got sent to the minors in NY he was getting $70/yr . I can see why he left for Russia when they tried to assign him the next time around. Its a flaw in the system. Sadly, North American players don't have this option.
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Lindgren
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I get the money issue. If that's what he prioritized, again, I think that tells us he's gone. He wouldn't bet on himself to make his AHL stay a short one.
Well, yes. That's the point. Shabanov is doing the sorts of things that will earn you an NHL contract as a skill player from the KHL. Kravtsov is not.
ChilliBilly
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Have no idea what he makes in the KHL, but a decent AHL salary might entice him to give it another shot. He can try a year where he accepts time in Abby to try and get to a NHL salary. I doubt he makes much more than NHL minimum. From what I could find out a few years ago, most of the teams have a total payroll in the KHL of about 20% of the NHL.
edit - so it's likely that salaries average out at about 20% of NHL on average, but but lesser players probably make a higher percentage of a teams salary. A reasonable take is that someone like Kravtsov makes about 40% of an NHL salary, or about $400K/yr. I am, of course, pulling these numbers out of my ass. If someone has real knowledge, please illuminate me.
Edit 2 - Okay so I found this - KHL Ultimate Guide- The Wildest League In The World - which sort of confirms what I posted above. Their cap is 10% of the NHL cap right now, but lots of reason to believe you can probably double that for the better off teams, since it is a soft cap.
Edit 3 - By the way that article is a worthwhile read for anyone who wants to know more about what the KHL is like. Not sure when it was written, but the exchange rate is only down a little from what is indicated here. Of note, their minimum salary cap is about $3M US. The Max is around $10M, but I gather no checks to see if someone is getting paid under the table.
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Lindgren
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I hope he rocks the rest of the season in the KHL, comes back and rocks the AHL, and is playing terrifically in the Canucks top 6 by November 2026.
I'm also hoping to hear back from The New Yorker about that story I submitted in '89.
Quinning
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The biggest challenge for NHL teams competing with the KHL talent for veteran players isn't player salaries. It's the limitation of entry-level contracts.
Newly drafted players into the NHL can earn $725,000 to $825,000, but only if they stick in the NHL. If they end up in the minors, the salary plummets to the $60,000 - $75,000.
It's the reason why a lot of Russian players who can't make the NHL in their first year or so, end up going home. They're just 'following the money'.
My impression of Kravstov is that he liked the City of Vancouver and has expressed an interest in returning to the NHL. It's just a question of whether his defensive game could ever pass muster with Tocchet.
Internet Anagram Server has 292 options for "Vitali Kravstov" so if this thread ever gets to post #709, I can make sure there's a third thread about a player who will probably never play for the Canucks ever again.
I stand ready to serve. So does Vital Viva Stork.
ChilliBilly
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You realize that my post, along with my previous one, were essentially trying to point out this exact point. And that he may be enticed back if he knows he will make as much in the AHL with the potential of a lot more if he succeeds. Then its a "show me" contract.
EdJovanovski
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Kravtsov is a good KHL player, but there isn't much to suggest he's improved enough to be a top 6 player in the NHL.
RobertKron
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He's obviously holding back to conserve energy in his finite battery for when he rejoins the Canucks.
Lindgren
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RobertKron
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EdJovanovski
#RempeForCalder
2nd on the team in scoring, KHL is significantly lower scoring than the NHL.
plus there's all the assists that were stolen from him by scorekeepers conspiring to keep him out of the nhl
Lindgren
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It won't be his scoring stats that determine if Kravtsov ever reappears in the NHL. It'll be his defense. If he could ever refine his two-way, 200 foot game, he might have a future in Tocchet's system.
But that's the hardest thing to determine in his KHL career--is he actually getting any better on the defensive side of the puck?
Lindgren
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Saying that Kravtsov needs to "refine" his two way game is like saying Alvin needs to fluff up his hair a bit.
He's not coming back.
I think the biggest obstacle is that Kravtsov wants to play in the NHL or he goes back to the KHL. We aren't willing to give him a guaranteed NHL spot as he hasn't earned it. Giving him an KHL assignment clause (which likely requires some negotiations with his KHL team) is unusual. Plus we qualified him to hold his rights.
If Tocchet could co-exist with Kuzmenko for a season and a half; and even Daniel Sprong for training camp and the first 10 games of this season, he could learn to live with Kravtsov.....provided of course his defensive game showed any sign of improvement.
Hockey DB lists him at 6'2" and close to 200. Given some of the smurfs the Canucks are trotting out on their current forward lines, a guy that size would be a nice 'add' if he was able to show anything.
What are you talking about? The discussion (which you raised) is whether Kravtsov can "refine" his two-way 200 foot game. Tocchet can "co-exist" with any player. The fact that he can "co-exist" with a player is irrelevant to the discussion as it doesn't mean Kravtsov can/has refined his two-way 200foot game and that Tocchet will play/utilize such player.
