OT: Video Game Talk (oh, also the Week before the All-Star Break Pre-Game Talk "archive")

[henchman21]

Is 450 dollars for how far off they have graphically going to be a good move? I don't necessarily care about graphics, but considering PS5 Pro is being built strictly on graphics, I am not sure Switch II can go the same marketing direction.

It is a different market and $450 is a price point that people are clearly willing to pay. $700 for a console has never worked. At somepoint it will... doubtful Sony makes this one work.

Nintendo has the handheld console space all to itself, it just also happens to be something you can play on your TV. The Steamdeck is the closest comparable and it has its own quirks... plus it has not made good inroads into Japan. The Steamdeck with 512gb (which is what I'd expect for the Switch 2 on storage) is $450. If the rumors are to be believed, the Switch 2 is somewhere between double and triple the power of the Steamdeck (still short of XSS power but portable). The lowest I can see at the power level they are talking about is $400 and that is probably at a slight loss. Nintendo has been unwilling to sell at a loss recently... so $450 seems like the number.

 

[sethro109]

Just having an SSD and more RAM would help the switch immensely. Nintendo has never really cared about being a graphics powerhouse. They're all about style and gameplay.

Hell the one time they teased a graphically good looking Zelda game, it almost sank the franchise. Because people were expecting that more realistic looking Zelda game, it completely destroyed the sales of Wind Waker in the West.

 

[henchman21]

Just having an SSD and more RAM would help the switch immensely. Nintendo has never really cared about being a graphics powerhouse. They're all about style and gameplay.

Hell the one time they teased a graphically good looking Zelda game, it almost sank the franchise. Because people were expecting that more realistic looking Zelda game, it completely destroyed the sales of Wind Waker in the West.

At this point we know the basics of the Switch specs, just not the actual clocks. We know it is the T239 variant of the T234 Nvidia chip that at estimated clocks will be somewhere in the high 2s to 4 TFlops (though we should probably judge actual power differently), have a full DLSS implementation, 12gb of LPDDR5 Ram (102 Gb/s), and either 256 or 512Gb of storage. It will be decidedly short on power compared to even the XSS. Baked in DLSS will be a big help, but I have doubts that it will even surpass the XSS when docked. In handheld, they'll be targeting a 1080p resolution... so with DLSS they can probably go down to the 540p ish internal resolution and have it still look good. It should be powerful enough for that. In docked mode... 720p internal with a 1200p output is probably the best we can hope for and in the Nintendo fashion they'll have a 30/60 set of games depending on the type. 120 is likely out of the picture here.

I think the GameCube burned Nintendo. The N64 tried to lead, same with SNES... GameCube is where they just got one upped by Microsoft with the OG Xbox and knew they didn't have the ability to play that game. So they pivoted with mixed success. IMO Nintendo has found a great niche here. Dominate the handheld market, but have just enough power to attract some 3rd party AAA games.

 

[S E P H]

It is a different market and $450 is a price point that people are clearly willing to pay. $700 for a console has never worked. At somepoint it will... doubtful Sony makes this one work.

Nintendo has the handheld console space all to itself, it just also happens to be something you can play on your TV. The Steamdeck is the closest comparable and it has its own quirks... plus it has not made good inroads into Japan. The Steamdeck with 512gb (which is what I'd expect for the Switch 2 on storage) is $450. If the rumors are to be believed, the Switch 2 is somewhere between double and triple the power of the Steamdeck (still short of XSS power but portable). The lowest I can see at the power level they are talking about is $400 and that is probably at a slight loss. Nintendo has been unwilling to sell at a loss recently... so $450 seems like the number.

Good points, but at 450 dollars, you are competing with superior systems of the original Xbox X and PS5. I love my Switch and we already know how good the game library is, but I use my PS5 for more than just games...I can stream music, entertainment, and as a sports hub. Switch cannot do 98% of those features and I hear that YouTube sucks on it. I always feel that Switch is superior because of its fun games and system, which cost half as much as other consoles. That was one of the major marketing points of why you should go Nintendo instead of "blank company." If 450 is the true price, it will be very interesting to see if people in that range of purchasing power would still buy it or another system besides the Nintendo fanbois and techies.

 

[S E P H]

I think the GameCube burned Nintendo. The N64 tried to lead, same with SNES... GameCube is where they just got one upped by Microsoft with the OG Xbox and knew they didn't have the ability to play that game. So they pivoted with mixed success. IMO Nintendo has found a great niche here. Dominate the handheld market, but have just enough power to attract some 3rd party AAA games.

Might not be part of your argument, but the best Gamecube games are as good as any system ever made. I do think the system lacked depth, but the top games for the GC are legendary quite easily. Wii was probably the lowest point for Nintendo that hurt them the most financially, but they made the smartest decision from that low point. In terms of being too widespread in the gaming market, they stopped their DS line and made the Switch the "first ever hybrid car" sort of console that appealed to the masses. It isn't the most sold console ever as the PS2 and DS are, but it is comfortably in third place based on the quick Googling I did. Making a system that has all the DS qualities, but is a superior PSP that can also plug into the telly was brilliant.

 

[henchman21]

Good points, but at 450 dollars, you are competing with superior systems of the original Xbox X and PS5. I love my Switch and we already know how good the game library is, but I use my PS5 for more than just games...I can stream music, entertainment, and as a sports hub. Switch cannot do 98% of those features and I hear that YouTube sucks on it. I always feel that Switch is superior because of its fun games and system, which cost half as much as other consoles. That was one of the major marketing points of why you should go Nintendo instead of "blank company." If 450 is the true price, it will be very interesting to see if people in that range of purchasing power would still buy it or another system besides the Nintendo fanbois and techies.

Those superior systems are not portable though and that is the key difference. Especially with kids. They can take their Switch on the family roadtrip, they can play at home without taking up a TV, it can be used on planes and trains... it just has more of a use case to go along with the Nintendo reputation.

On streaming, yeah the Switch today sucks at it... but the new Switch is going to be 4k capable and more powerful than any dedicated streaming box out there. So odds are it'll be fine in that area. With that though, with the proliferation of smart TVs, outside of a few niche use cases like Multiview, why is that needed?

Might not be part of your argument, but the best Gamecube games are as good as any system ever made. I do think the system lacked depth, but the top games for the GC are legendary quite easily. Wii was probably the lowest point for Nintendo that hurt them the most financially, but they made the smartest decision from that low point. In terms of being too widespread in the gaming market, they stopped their DS line and made the Switch the "first ever hybrid car" sort of console that appealed to the masses. It isn't the most sold console ever as the PS2 and DS are, but it is comfortably in third place based on the quick Googling I did. Making a system that has all the DS qualities, but is a superior PSP that can also plug into the telly was brilliant.

I'd have a correction here. The Wii/DS generation for Nintendo was a gold mine. Their best financially in the history of the company. The WiiU/3DS generation was only kept from being a disaster because the 3DS held firm. The Wii U was a financial disaster that caused the Switch being rushed out.

The Switch lifetime will probably come close to PS2/DS. They should come close to 150m in total with an outside chance of hitting that 155 top number... and they did it with primarily a $300 machine that never really dropped in price (the lite is less, but OLED balances it). It'll be by far the highest revenue console of all time unless the PS5 tops 110ish m.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

The Wii U was a needless console. Nobody needed an upgrade to the Wii as it was and the games they made for the Wii U weren't any better than the games that existed on the Wii. It was more of an expensive refresh than an actual generational upgrade.

 

[henchman21]

The Wii U was a needless console. Nobody needed an upgrade to the Wii as it was and the games they made for the Wii U weren't any better than the games that existed on the Wii. It was more of an expensive refresh than an actual generational upgrade.

I'd disagree there. The WiiU was a marketing disaster and nobody really understood it. But there were some absolute bangers of games on that system... Mario Kart 8, Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Toad Treasure Tracker, Smash, Mario Maker, Mario Super 3D World, Splatoon, and even Breath of the Wild. Excluding the last because of the timing and simultaneously releasing on Switch, those all started out as exclusives for the Wii U. Those are just the Nintendo exclusives and there were others. For as brief of life as it had, there are some real gems of games on it. Now most have been ported over or had better successors on the Switch... so kinda pointless now for the Wii U (unless you really need the HD Zelda games and Color Smash)... but in the midst of that time, it was a supremely underrated console. Ever so slightly more powerful than the X360 and PS3, but hit too late in that generation to gain the market share needed to get real 3rd party support. If it dropped in late 2010 or early 2011, it might have been better received. Just a year before PS4 and XO (and releasing only a few months before their announcements), it didn't have a chance to gather 3rd party support.

 

[AvsMakar08]

Going back in the days were some old blokes who used to just download more Ram from internet.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

I somewhat don't get the wild reaction to the PS5 pro. It's a luxury console for those who want the best performance on current gen consoles, an enthusiast product that is not mandatory. It was always going to be expensive, epecially since Xbox has failed to compete with Sony since the 360 and won't release their own pro console.

It's pricy but nothing too wild. If you wanna talk about absurd prices in gaming, SNES games used to go for 100€ in Finland back in the 90s.

 

[sethro109]

I somewhat don't get the wild reaction to the PS5 pro. It's a luxury console for those who want the best performance on current gen consoles, an enthusiast product that is not mandatory. It was always going to be expensive, epecially since Xbox has failed to compete with Sony since the 360 and won't release their own pro console.

It's pricy but nothing too wild. If you wanna talk about absurd prices in gaming, SNES games used to go for 100€ in Finland back in the 90s.

It's an entertainment product, nothing is mandatory. Console has always been the affordable, no hassle go to for casual and enthusiast gamers. That price point was never going to fly with console gamers. The only other console that was priced similarly was the PS3, and that was also highly scrutinized at its launch. But that also had the benefit as doubling as a Blu-ray player. This digital only provides the customer with nothing but a little bit bigger hard drive and is still highly limited by its underpowered processor. Then Sony was so stingy, they couldn't even provide a vertical stand for the thing.

This is basically just a marketing ploy to extort gamers that want the best experience for GTAVI, since Rockstar isn't releasing it for PC at launch. Smart Business, but horrible for gamers. Sony and Microsoft used to be willing to eat the cost for these things, but with Xbox failures, Sony doesn't have to do shit anymore.

And Nintendo has basically secured it's own ecosystem away from the other two, so they will just continue doing their own thing.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

It's an entertainment product, nothing is mandatory. Console has always been the affordable, no hassle go to for casual and enthusiast gamers. That price point was never going to fly with console gamers. The only other console that was priced similarly was the PS3, and that was also highly scrutinized at its launch. But that also had the benefit as doubling as a Blu-ray player. This digital only provides the customer with nothing but a little bit bigger hard drive and is still highly limited by its underpowered processor. Then Sony was so stingy, they couldn't even provide a vertical stand for the thing.

This is basically just a marketing ploy to extort gamers that want the best experience for GTAVI, since Rockstar isn't releasing it for PC at launch. Smart Business, but horrible for gamers. Sony and Microsoft used to be willing to eat the cost for these things, but with Xbox failures, Sony doesn't have to do shit anymore.

And Nintendo has basically secured it's own ecosystem away from the other two, so they will just continue doing their own thing.

Sure it would have been a 100 bucks cheaper if Sony had competition in the high end console market, but they don't so it is what it is.

The PS6 will also be very expensive no doubt. The specs needed to run triple A titles well at this point is just not feasible for a cheap console, unless it's sold at a loss.

 

[Soedy]

I just sold my PS5 to my brother. Over the last months, I barely used it. If I used it, I played Red Dead Redemption 1 (which I can play in ultra-wide via Xenia emulator on PC), FIFA, NHL and PAW Patrol. Last one from my son. When my brother inquired if I could order him a PS5 I took the chance and sold him mine for a good price. There is absolutely no game on the console I am looking forward to.

The Switch 2 has my full interest though. I am actually in love with Nintendo games right now. I never had a Nintendo console, except for the original Gameboy and Gamebody Color and I am currently replaying all the 3D Zeldas. Nintendo games just focus so much on what makes gaming fun for me right now. I am just tired about big cinematic video games like Uncharted, God of War, etc.

 

[henchman21]

The problem with the PS5 Pro price is that it pretty much ends up at parity for a similar PC build, and along with that, you get locked into the PS5 ecosystem. Which means less access to games and for more money. I get the premium product and such, but as we have moved to more PC based architecture, the main draw is getting a plug and play box that punches above its weight. A 4-500 box that when it comes out plays like a ~1000 PC with no setup required. The PS5 Pro is a $700 box that plays like an $800 PC. If you're going to charge $700 (without a disc drive) it better perform closer to a $1500 PC.

I'm not even a build a PC person (have posts here about this), but I'd have a really hard time justifying a PS5 Pro when you can build a PC for about the same money, have the ability to utilize Steam/Game Pass/emulation, and being able to incrementally upgrade later. The value proposition is clearly on the PC side here, and arguably, that has never been the case before.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Some people will always prefer the console experience over any mega beefy big boi PC. I have both, but will rather game on a giant ass screen lying in bed, doesn't get much more comfortable than that. However, the more expensive consoles get the more people will convert to the PC master race.

The PS5 pro price is pushing it though. Not that surprising all things considered, but a bit too much. Still I'll get it day one if I can regardless.

 

[henchman21]

Some people will always prefer the console experience over any mega beefy big boi PC. I have both, but will rather game on a giant ass screen lying in bed, doesn't get much more comfortable than that. However, the more expensive consoles get the more people will convert to the PC master race.

The PS5 pro price is pushing it though. Not that surprising all things considered, but a bit too much. Still I'll get it day one if I can regardless.

Yup... the entire problem is once price parity hits, the console value goes out the window. It might be ~100 or so more expensive to build a PC than the PS5 Pro, but one Steam sale can make up that entire difference. If the PS6 ends up a PC in a different form factor and the same cost... it simply doesn't make sense to buy it. Especially when you can build a PC to be a big screen experience pretty easily.

I'm not a PC person, but it is getting harder and harder to say that isn't the best path. Switch 2 + PC might just be the best setup.

 

[TheForsbergShow]

Not only is the price out the gate pretty ridiculous, but you also need to factor in $100 cad annually just to play online. Their game sales are pretty bad In comparison to PC and having to use a controller which will most likely become defective in less than a year is just another reoccurring cost.

This generation of consoles is the first one I've ever skipped (prob will get one when gta6 is out) and just game on my pc. Sonys big thing was always releasing high quality games yearly , and while they still do, development times being crazy long just make them so infrequent and only recently have they even been games i couldn't just play on my ps4. Also just remastering/bundling old games seems to be one of their top priorities, where in the past for every one AstroBot released, there was a ratchet/jak/sly Cooper.

Xbox selling so poorly and Microsoft trying to just get ppl into the game pass ecosystem on PC has made it so Sony can charge whatever for their hardware knowing millions still prefer the plug and play of a console over PC.

 

[CharlesPuck]

Is a Nintendo switch online worth it for the older games? I like Mario golf, tennis, etc.

 

[henchman21]

Is a Nintendo switch online worth it for the older games? I like Mario golf, tennis, etc.

The emulation isn't amazing, but if you're not super picky with that... yeah. The $50 per year plan is a steal comparatively. You get N64, Genesis and GBA games online too... and if you're a MK8 player, you get the new courses too.

 

[CharlesPuck]

The emulation isn't amazing, but if you're not super picky with that... yeah. The $50 per year plan is a steal comparatively. You get N64, Genesis and GBA games online too... and if you're a MK8 player, you get the new courses too.

That’s good to know. I don’t own a switch now, would you recommend it for those older games mixed with some newer ones?

Mainly want a more mobile option, hate iPhone games and have a ps4 now, but not strictly handheld.

 

[henchman21]

That’s good to know. I don’t own a switch now, would you recommend it for those older games mixed with some newer ones?

Mainly want a more mobile option, hate iPhone games and have a ps4 now, but not strictly handheld.

I’d personally wait. The Switch 2 will be out in probably 6-9 months and the Switch money would be better utilized there. Love the system, it’s just at the end of the lifecycle

 

[missionAvs]

I’d personally wait. The Switch 2 will be out in probably 6-9 months and the Switch money would be better utilized there. Love the system, it’s just at the end of the lifecycle

 

[CharlesPuck]

I’d personally wait. The Switch 2 will be out in probably 6-9 months and the Switch money would be better utilized there. Love the system, it’s just at the end of the lifecycle

Thanks for the rec. I have a bad hip injury now, thanks golf and hockey, so that’s part of the reason for wanting a new system to entertain me with.

 

[henchman21]

Thanks for the rec. I have a bad hip injury now, thanks golf and hockey, so that’s part of the reason for wanting a new system to entertain me with.

More or less… gotta decide if that time is worth 300 (or if you trade it in 175ish) until the Switch 2 is out.

 

[CharlesPuck]

More or less… gotta decide if that time is worth 300 (or if you trade it in 175ish) until the Switch 2 is out.

Can you download demos on the switch itself? I’ve never played games like Zelda Breathe of the Wild and would like to try it out before paying $60 for it.