Victims of "bad" tanks and rebuilds: How soon did you know something was going wrong?
- Thread starter ReHabs
- Start date
CaptainShark
Registered User
After hours and hours of highly scientific research, I can confirm that the most telling sign is this.
Nogatco Rd
Pierre-Luc Dubas
- Apr 3, 2021
- 3,360
- 6,237
Great question by OP. Something I’ve wondered about and I’m surprised isn’t discussed more often. Looking forward to some serious answers.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Luigi Lemieux
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2003
- 22,398
- 11,221
I think a troubling sign is if your young players are regressing.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
MarkusNaslund19
Registered User
- Dec 28, 2005
- 5,802
- 8,735
I genuinely think that a lot of people don't understand how important intent is in situations like this.
Like the Penguins, Blackhawks, Kings, and Lightning cores were built, in part, with high picks, yes. But mostly these were teams going through serious ownership adversity, or other kinds of limiting factors while trying their darndest.
One can overcome adversity if one maintains their integrity and pride. This is especially true of interdependent groups. Overcoming a big hurdle is possible.
But intentionally quitting, throwing in the towel. I firmly believe that this creates a stink that is very, very hard to shake.
The Sabres did it and haven't looked like a top half team in the league for more than half a season at a time since.
The Oilers did it and it took ten years to even approach competence and that was because they won the lottery of lotteries, and then won another lottery with Draisaitl becoming so good (I also suspect that playing with McDavid raised his ceiling) and then some competent hockey men came in because they wanted to build around McDavid. This cannot be reliably replicated.
The Hawks look utterly lost.
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Accepting reality is one thing. Trading upcoming free agents, not signing old guys and taking your lumps while your young players learn.
But trading every competent player and laying down on the road ruins a team's culture.
Look at the Sabres in 2015, look at the Hawks recently with Hagel, DeBrincat, etc.
Look at the Rangers right now (different situation, but a similar cultural problem where the players feel like management has literally quit on them).
Group psychology in sports is woefully, woefully misunderstood.
Like the Penguins, Blackhawks, Kings, and Lightning cores were built, in part, with high picks, yes. But mostly these were teams going through serious ownership adversity, or other kinds of limiting factors while trying their darndest.
One can overcome adversity if one maintains their integrity and pride. This is especially true of interdependent groups. Overcoming a big hurdle is possible.
But intentionally quitting, throwing in the towel. I firmly believe that this creates a stink that is very, very hard to shake.
The Sabres did it and haven't looked like a top half team in the league for more than half a season at a time since.
The Oilers did it and it took ten years to even approach competence and that was because they won the lottery of lotteries, and then won another lottery with Draisaitl becoming so good (I also suspect that playing with McDavid raised his ceiling) and then some competent hockey men came in because they wanted to build around McDavid. This cannot be reliably replicated.
The Hawks look utterly lost.
-
Accepting reality is one thing. Trading upcoming free agents, not signing old guys and taking your lumps while your young players learn.
But trading every competent player and laying down on the road ruins a team's culture.
Look at the Sabres in 2015, look at the Hawks recently with Hagel, DeBrincat, etc.
Look at the Rangers right now (different situation, but a similar cultural problem where the players feel like management has literally quit on them).
Group psychology in sports is woefully, woefully misunderstood.
when we signed Tavares.
It wasn't signing Tavares it was hiring Dubas.
You notice how Dubas isn't here and they are 1st in the Atlantic, battling for 1st in the NHL?
This is what happens when you have a REAL GM and and REAL coach
MakoSlade
Registered User
Serious answer, you have to hit on most of your draft picks, and lottery luck helps. Devils started their rebuild with Pavel Zacha, a good player but not someone who lived up to his draft position in any way, shape or form. They followed that up with Mikey MacLeod, another good player but they missed on better options after.
The turnaround started with lottery luck and good decisions with that luck. Cornerstones Hischier and Hughes were picked over terrible options (Nolan Patrick and Kappo Kakko), both in drafts where the 1 / 2 were a toss up. (I still think the Hughes / Kakko debate was manufactured for attention, I never for one microsecond thought the Devils were going to pick KK).
So yeah, draft is huge. And also a good GM. GMTF has been brilliant for the Devils. He turned around a shattered defense in months 3 years or so back, didn't make any panic moves last year, and addresses their biggest weaknesses this year. He has an eye for need and a solid plan.
The turnaround started with lottery luck and good decisions with that luck. Cornerstones Hischier and Hughes were picked over terrible options (Nolan Patrick and Kappo Kakko), both in drafts where the 1 / 2 were a toss up. (I still think the Hughes / Kakko debate was manufactured for attention, I never for one microsecond thought the Devils were going to pick KK).
So yeah, draft is huge. And also a good GM. GMTF has been brilliant for the Devils. He turned around a shattered defense in months 3 years or so back, didn't make any panic moves last year, and addresses their biggest weaknesses this year. He has an eye for need and a solid plan.
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