Confirmed with Link: Veleno signs

[Pavels Dog]

Honestly, I don't know why we didn't just go to the arbitration hearing. I feel like he'd have been awarded 1-1.5 mil AAV by an arbitrator.

I also don't like that we seem to consistently overpay on contracts. Ras, Veleno, Copp, Chiarot, Holl, etc all make too much. If this continues to be a problem once we have some actually big ticket contracts, it's going to make it hard to fill out a good team. You can't afford to overpay depth in the cap era. We had to pay a second to get rid of Walman because of these inefficiencies and we're still doing it

If you think every contract is an overpay it’s generally an indication that you don’t understand the market. Veleno getting 1-1.5 in arbitration is a laughable suggestion.

What kind of unexpected value? Being a warm body on a 3rd line? The only way how you can be successful in NHL with such a low hockey IQ is by being a relentless forchecker with exceptional speed and agility. I fall asleep watching Veleno with the puck.

Maybe we may finally try some other guys there like Danielsson, Berggren or Kasper? Now we need to sit a 3M player for this and it is always a difficult decision.

Did you think Veleno would not be signed? What 3M player are you talking about? Your post sounds more like angry ranting about someone you have a personal issue with rather than objective analysis.

 

[DoMakc]

I don't understand where this Sprong talk is coming from. As far as i know Sprong is not playing center, not killing penalties, not being defenseively reliable while playing not the easiest minutes. I'm actually happy not to have defensive liabilities like Sprong and Fabbri and prefer a proper 4th line Motte/Veleno/Fischer to them.

 

[13to40]

His cap hit vs sprong. Woof.

Sprong = cancer who won’t play defensive hockey when need be.

Veleno = 200ft game, Swiss Army knife (not the best one, but gets the job done)

 

[Henkka]

Hmm, this was weird signing. The price and term. Was 100% sure they go for 1-year.

His production is currently at Zadina level, Zadina was able to scorer better 2 seasons ago.

Also, Veleno has been a 3rd pair penalty-killer, nothing really significant, when Copp-Compher, Ras-Larkin did took all the meaningful shifts. Now Motte was added to make that Top2 - Top4 better.

Veleno was team worst forward with -16 rating. Still praised about defence,

It's weird how this center position is overvalued, when he isn't great at faceoffs either. Last season he did improve to 49.0%, but no any seasons over 50. Former seasons average 45.1%.

Maybe he can still improve, but even as Veleno being 24-yeard old "young" I consider him already as in-prime player, because he is the opposite version of a late bloomer. Exceptional status etc. he has been 1 year ahead of others since junior times.

His transition game is maybe the most valuable skill, which we can't read on any stats, and that could make this contract reasonable.

But he will be there, and Kasper and/or Danielson should outplay him from the roster at some point during next 2 years.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Hmm, this was weird signing. The price and term. Was 100% sure they go for 1-year.

His production is currently at Zadina level, Zadina was able to scorer better 2 seasons ago.

Also, Veleno has been a 3rd pair penalty-killer, nothing really significant, when Copp-Compher, Ras-Larkin did took all the meaningful shifts. Now Motte was added to make that Top2 - Top4 better.

Veleno was team worst forward with -16 rating. Still praised about defence,

It's weird how this center position is overvalued, when he isn't great at faceoffs either. Last season he did improve to 49.0%, but no any seasons over 50. Former seasons average 45.1%.

Maybe he can still improve, but even as Veleno being 24-yeard old "young" I consider him already as in-prime player, because he is the opposite version of a late bloomer. Exceptional status etc. he has been 1 year ahead of others since junior times.

His transition game is maybe the most valuable skill, which we can't read on any stats, and that could make this contract reasonable.

But he will be there, and Kasper and/or Danielson should outplay him from the roster at some point during next 2 years.

Zadina was not a center and depending upon team system, centers are a little more valued, JV did move to wing a bit (as he was moved around) and honestly, I don't fully understand the wings criteria for their advanced stats yet, but they must see some value of JV above other options (they did have Fisher pull center duties a bit last year) available out there.

JV filled a swiss army knife role last year and from memory, much of his -16 (like many like Raymond) came during the horrid streak when both Larkin and Compher were out and they were into massive shifting of what centers they did have into slots they should not be in for any great length of time.

I am OK with the JV price tag, it is market value, I agree the term is a little of a head scratcher, but SY did give JV a prove it deal last year, he proved he is a serviceable bottom 6 willing to do as asked.

I suspect the 2 years is so SY will not have to revisit things in a year, but it also makes him much easier to trade as he has a relatively low cap hit with term and he is a natural center. (I still think SY will make some hockey trades before US Thanksgiving, at least one for a serviceable #2 pair RD, which will have a cost to it, I see JV, Lyons or Ras likely as part of that along with shipping out Holl, but that is another thread discussion)

Looking at the PK/PP (using the 4/8f forward assignment) alignments today, JV is one of the swiss army knifes that can platoon between the two. Even if he is not prefect for either, the versatility versus a Zadina or Sprong does indeed have some value to the team depth.

In the big scheme of things, JV at this cost and term is pretty much a nothing burgher.

 

[Winger98]

Zadina was not a center and depending upon team system, centers are a little more valued, JV did move to wing a bit (as he was moved around) and honestly, I don't fully understand the wings criteria for their advanced stats yet, but they must see some value of JV above other options (they did have Fisher pull center duties a bit last year) available out there.

JV filled a swiss army knife role last year and from memory, much of his -16 (like many like Raymond) came during the horrid streak when both Larkin and Compher were out and they were into massive shifting of what centers they did have into slots they should not be in for any great length of time.

I am OK with the JV price tag, it is market value, I agree the term is a little of a head scratcher, but SY did give JV a prove it deal last year, he proved he is a serviceable bottom 6 willing to do as asked.

I suspect the 2 years is so SY will not have to revisit things in a year, but it also makes him much easier to trade as he has a relatively low cap hit with term and he is a natural center. (I still think SY will make some hockey trades before US Thanksgiving, at least one for a serviceable #2 pair RD, which will have a cost to it, I see JV, Lyons or Ras likely as part of that along with shipping out Holl, but that is another thread discussion)

Looking at the PK/PP (using the 4/8f forward assignment) alignments today, JV is one of the swiss army knifes that can platoon between the two. Even if he is not prefect for either, the versatility versus a Zadina or Sprong does indeed have some value to the team depth.

In the big scheme of things, JV at this cost and term is pretty much a nothing burgher.

I think this is a big thing with JV. I don't love the contract, but I don't think it's a gross overpay. It gives some time to pump his tires a bit, and deal him off later.

 

[Frk It]

There are like 100 things I am more concerned about when it comes to this team than this contract or the one given to Rasmussen.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

There are like 100 things I am more concerned about when it comes to this team than this contract or the one given to Rasmussen.

My main thoughts regarding those two is I want to see Ras playing like he did before he hurt his knee and Veleno playing more like how he started last season.

 

[heyfolks]

Are you seriously upset that Czarnik is no longer on the Wings?

Good on him for filling in but he’s been an AHL/NHL tweener his entire career.

Upset? Not sure why you would think that but if I were "upset" it would be more about the overpay for JV than this signing. I had thought my post made that clear. Your description of Czarnik is mine of Veleno. One is playing in Europe and the other gained over $2M a year to stay with the Wings. That's an over payment.

I can't imagine being arsed about either event. This is <1% of what is going to move the needle for this franchise.

No idea what arsed means but 1) Veleno was over paid (and it will matter when you look to give the big dogs that extra mill and 2) Czarnik was a solid AHL player for the Griffins. I don't see much difference between the two, skill wise. I will use your idiom in regards to their play, neither of them move the needle.

 

[rbartnik]

Czarnik is 31 and had one point last season. We're seriously comparing him to Veleno?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Upset? Not sure why you would think that but if I were "upset" it would be more about the overpay for JV than this signing. I had thought my post made that clear. Your description of Czarnik is mine of Veleno. One is playing in Europe and the other gained over $2M a year to stay with the Wings. That's an over payment.


No idea what arsed means but 1) Veleno was over paid (and it will matter when you look to give the big dogs that extra mill and 2) Czarnik was a solid AHL player for the Griffins. I don't see much difference between the two, skill wise. I will use your idiom in regards to their play, neither of them move the needle.

You referred to the Wings “letting” Czarnik play for the Swiss leagues.

Would you prefer he were on the Wings roster next season?

 

[Geezer WC]

Paying a guy who is slightly better than Emmerton $2.3 a year, I don't know about that.

 

[Henkka]

My prediction will be, that Jonatan Berggren plays like 2.275M valued guy at next season and Veleno plays like 1.1M player (probable Berggren contract value).

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

I think this is a big thing with JV. I don't love the contract, but I don't think it's a gross overpay. It gives some time to pump his tires a bit, and deal him off later.

It is to JV, he was 23 last season, this should give him some price of mind, I watched him in a couple of games in the Q in his early days, he did have the physical tools to be an exceptional exemption player, but I thought he lacked the CPU to truly be one at that time. I think he would have been better off not being thrust upwards too quickly.

The experts claim the brain is not fully matured until age 24/25, so there is little time for him to catch up (I think he he is getting there), I think SY sees him as a potential modern day John Chabot, they got physical tools to play anywhere in the forward lineup, just not too high for too long. Be interesting to see how he makes out this year, I think people may be surprised, I think he will eventually breakout for what he will likely be, a solid bottom 6, 2-way center.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

My prediction will be, that Jonatan Berggren plays like 2.275M valued guy at next season and Veleno plays like 1.1M player (probable Berggren contract value).

I have no doubt Jonatan will be outplaying his 1 year prove it contract, his last call up I like the improved play he had for the 3 games or so he played (he actually hit a couple people and was mindful defensively), it would not surprise me to see the two of them on the same line most of the time next year though, and be quite productive.

Depending upon the team being played, I could see a 3rd line of Berggren, JV and Tank (or Kane) being deployed if the wings are truly rolling 4 lines. Given the team forward depth, I think there will be many interesting combinations used depending upon who they are playing and if home or on the road.

 

[Indrid Cold]

There are like 100 things I am more concerned about when it comes to this team than this contract or the one given to Rasmussen.

THIS

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Paying a guy who is slightly better than Emmerton $2.3 a year, I don't know about that.

Veleno scored more last season than Emmerton did his entire career.

 

[SirloinUB]

Wow. I didn't realize this fanbase was so low on Joe Veleno.

 

[13to40]

Upset? Not sure why you would think that but if I were "upset" it would be more about the overpay for JV than this signing. I had thought my post made that clear. Your description of Czarnik is mine of Veleno. One is playing in Europe and the other gained over $2M a year to stay with the Wings. That's an over payment.


No idea what arsed means but 1) Veleno was over paid (and it will matter when you look to give the big dogs that extra mill and 2) Czarnik was a solid AHL player for the Griffins. I don't see much difference between the two, skill wise. I will use your idiom in regards to their play, neither of them move the needle.

Do you actually watch the hockey games? Or base your analysis off one game you tuned into all season?

One player is 6’1 and can net a few goals a season while playing a 200’ game, actually can handle the puck and not fumble it like a hot potato.

The other is 5’9 energy player who earned 1 assist in 34 games, also has cement mits and handles the puck like a grenade.

I don’t quite understand some of the hate towards Joe Veleno; not just directed towards you. I don’t know if to the average hockey fan that many of the small details go unnoticed?

In no means do I think we are comparing prime Datsyuk vs Abdelkader, but to say one is of equal to the other is still a head scratching analysis at the least.

 

[saska sault]

Wow. I didn't realize this fanbase was so low on Joe Veleno.

Joey V still has potential. 15-15 or 20-20 guys that can play defense are hard to find on good short term deals. He could elevate to that level, even if not the deal is cheap in a rising cap league.

 

[heyfolks]

You referred to the Wings “letting” Czarnik play for the Swiss leagues.

Would you prefer he were on the Wings roster next season?

No, I prefer he was in GR and a call up for center as needed.

 

[heyfolks]

Do you actually watch the hockey games? Or base your analysis off one game you tuned into all season?

One player is 6’1 and can net a few goals a season while playing a 200’ game, actually can handle the puck and not fumble it like a hot potato.

The other is 5’9 energy player who earned 1 assist in 34 games, also has cement mits and handles the puck like a grenade.

I don’t quite understand some of the hate towards Joe Veleno; not just directed towards you. I don’t know if to the average hockey fan that many of the small details go unnoticed?

In no means do I think we are comparing prime Datsyuk vs Abdelkader, but to say one is of equal to the other is still a head scratching analysis at the least.

WOW, the Wings games are televised?

I should have left Austin out. I wasn't comparing the two for the Wings, just comparing the logic of paying JV 2.275 while not trying to keep Austin (A MI native) in the State for GR.

I don't think JV is worth double Fishers pay and, keeping with a Wings player focus more than Janmark, Jarnkrok, heck even the caveman Sunquivst or the holy one Suter.

As said I don't hate the guy. He is a gym rat, stays healthy is good in the room and had a hot streak in a career year. He isn't an Abby (Copp is this group's Abby) but Yzerman is betting on continued to development. Hope it happens. In the meantime, help a guy out.... how do I actually watch the games?!

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[Geezer WC]

Veleno scored more last season than Emmerton did his entire career.

Ok, but we have been patient. Show me a Nate or Kasper already, please and thank you.

 

[Henkka]

I don't think JV is worth double Fishers pay and, keeping with a Wings player focus more than Janmark, Jarnkrok, heck even the caveman Sunquivst or the holy one Suter.

As said I don't hate the guy. He is a gym rat, stays healthy is good in the room and had a hot streak in a career year.

When was this so called hot streak?

 

[14ari13]

This deal is okay. I think it will look very good at the end of contact