Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[VivaLasVegas]

Another way would be to simply enforce the cap for the entire league year including playoffs, allowing for any possible overages only during the offseason while teams build and then once again become cap compliant before the next league year.

Like every other cap based league.

If you have to play even shorthanded at times during the regular season to be compliant, why would it all fly out the window once the stakes are at their highest?

It's not cheating per se, but its also intellectually dishonest to say that it cannot create an advantage if everything comes together with impecable timing.

My personal belief is that the teams iced for the playoffs should be cap-compliant based on their regular-season pay, as Vegas was last season by sitting a number of players such as Quick.

Whether the NHLPA will go along with such a rule is another story because of their interest in seeing as many players paid as much as possible, and of course the NHLPA hates the cap in the first place anyway. I'm also skeptical that a majority of GMs and owners will go along with it as well. If there are any meaningful changes, I seriously doubt they will occur before the next collective bargaining agreement.

 

[TheBeard]

Has Vegas ever placed a played on LTIR post trade deadline?

 

[GOilers88]

Memo to Vegas.

If it is your plan to stash guys on IR in order to field a cheat code team for the post-season, make sure you make the post-season first.

Memo to HFBoards

If you think teams plan to keep their best players out for long stretches of the year, and players are faking injuries in order to cheat their way to a Cup, just don't.

 

[DickSmehlik]

I think that they would rather players like Mike Stone play, there is no question in my mind. They were just taking advantage of the situation. All the power to them. I don’t think they were arrogantly thinking they will make the playoffs easily while stashing guys away on LTIR. I don’t see why there is a need for people to be so outraged lol.

Memo to HFBoards

If you think teams plan to keep their best players out for long stretches of the year, and players are faking injuries in order to cheat their way to a Cup, just don't.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Stone isn't/wasn't hurt.

But if he can come back in three weeks magically when the cap no longer counts, he could likely come back in the regular season and help them save their playoff spot.

But alas, they are over the Cap and now he cannot help them in their playoff push.

 

[Voight]

Memo to Vegas.

If it is your plan to stash guys on IR in order to field a cheat code team for the post-season, make sure you make the post-season first.

It's not a cheat code. They aren't cheating.

 

[GOilers88]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Stone isn't/wasn't hurt.

But if he can come back in three weeks magically when the cap no longer counts, he could likely come back in the regular season and help them save their playoff spot.

But alas, they are over the Cap and now he cannot help them in their playoff push.

Lots of people have been implying he hasn't really been that hurt going back to last year.

 

[AvroArrow]

It's not a cheat code. They aren't cheating.

A loophole is an accidental technicality or unclear section of a written document that allows someone to avoid following a rule or fulfilling an obligation.


It's cheating and everyone knows it. Abusing loopholes is just a way to get around the rules without getting in trouble.

 

[Voight]

A loophole is an accidental technicality or unclear section of a written document that allows someone to avoid following a rule or fulfilling an obligation.


It's cheating and everyone knows it. Abusing loopholes is just a way to get around the rules without getting in trouble.

They aren't abusing a loophole tho. Stone and Lehner are injured and out for a significant amount of time, so Vegas placed them on LTIR giving them the ability to add replacement players. The same thing every other team does/can do.

 

[AvroArrow]

They aren't abusing a loophole tho. Stone and Lehner are injured and out for a significant amount of time, so Vegas placed them on LTIR giving them the ability to add replacement players. The same thing every other team does/can do.

Right and then reactivating them in the playoffs when the cap doesn't count, like they did last year. I'm sure they'll be far too hurt to play in game 82, but absolutely healthy with minimal risk of re-injury for game 1. Everyone knows what they're doing.

 

[Mez]

Right and then reactivating them in the playoffs when the cap doesn't count, like they did last year. I'm sure they'll be far too hurt to play in game 82, but absolutely healthy with minimal risk of re-injury for game 1. Everyone knows what they're doing.

Exactly...the cheating part comes in when players are magically healthy enough to play in the first few games of the playoffs but not in game 82 of the regular season.

 

[Kegs]

Exactly...the cheating part comes in when players are magically healthy enough to play in the first few games of the playoffs but not in game 82 of the regular season.

Vegas isn’t cheating. They love signing injury prone super stars. They found a glitch in the matrix

 

[Voight]

Right and then reactivating them in the playoffs when the cap doesn't count, like they did last year. I'm sure they'll be far too hurt to play in game 82, but absolutely healthy with minimal risk of re-injury for game 1. Everyone knows what they're doing.

That isn't cheating. Nor is it really a loophole.

If the Vegas medical staff deems Stone cannot play the final week, then that's their decision. They may very well be of the opinion he needs an extra couple days of rest.

 

[nucks88]

Here’s hoping the Wild can keep winning and squeeze them out…..hilarious…

 

[Ted Hoffman]

That isn't cheating. Nor is it really a loophole.

If the Vegas medical staff deems Stone cannot play the final week, then that's their decision. They may very well be of the opinion he needs an extra couple days of rest.

And if the NHL wants to dispute it, it can choose a doctor to examine Stone and decide if he's able to play or not.

And if that doctor decides Stone can play, then they find a 3rd doctor that both sides agree upon who examines Stone and makes a determination.

I don't know why this is difficult, except for people who want to swear to f***ing god there's a great conspiracy and the league is forcing everyone to take part in it and swearing them all to secrecy for fear of them losing their jobs, their kids, their pets and their firstborn's firstborn for the next 7 generations.

 

[TheBeard]

That isn't cheating. Nor is it really a loophole.

If the Vegas medical staff deems Stone cannot play the final week, then that's their decision. They may very well be of the opinion he needs an extra couple days of rest.

Lol

 

[Vegas07]

Right and then reactivating them in the playoffs when the cap doesn't count, like they did last year. I'm sure they'll be far too hurt to play in game 82, but absolutely healthy with minimal risk of re-injury for game 1. Everyone knows what they're doing.

Lehner hasn’t played in almost 2 years. Yet people use his cap hit to argue that Vegas goes way over the cap.

 

[AvroArrow]

Lehner hasn’t played in almost 2 years. Yet people use his cap hit to argue that Vegas goes way over the cap.

Yeah the Lehner one doesn't make sense, IDC about that lol, it's Stone.

 

[Vegas07]

Exactly...the cheating part comes in when players are magically healthy enough to play in the first few games of the playoffs but not in game 82 of the regular season.

But that’s not uncommon in sports for teams to rest injured players at the end of the season when the games are meaningless and bring them back in the playoffs when they still are not 100% yet.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Memo to HFBoards

If you think teams plan to keep their best players out for long stretches of the year, and players are faking injuries in order to cheat their way to a Cup, just don't.

to be fair, they could easily ask a player thats injured to take an extra week or 2 off if they are expected to be healthy before playoffs so they can make upgrades and give them a better chance to win a cup. it's possible more than possible.

but no I agree no player is going to agree to take off long periods of the year off. but maybe sit out the final week or 2.... maybe

 

[hairylikebear]

That isn't cheating. Nor is it really a loophole.

The date of injury is recorded as the date that a doctor declared the player unfit to play according to the paperwork filed with the league. The loophole would be artificially delaying or rushing these dates for any reason other than the player's health and well being.

Even if Vegas is innocent, the loophole exists.

 

[pantherbot]

One other wrinkle I've thought of regarding implementing a cap during playoffs, how does it take into account things like salary retention and buyouts? During the regular season that would be a negative, but then does that come off in the playoffs or does that count against the roster?

If those don't count, then a team with retention/buyouts could LTIR a player until playoffs, bring in people from deadline, then activate LTIR player, stay under the cap, but basically benefit by not having retention/buyouts.

If you want to count retention/buyouts, does that then need to be adjusted if you're just applying cap to the 20-man iced roster? Not really fair to count the full retention/buyout hit - maybe it should be adjusted up since during regular season its a 23-man roster, so the retention/buyout hit should be relatively the same; conversely you could argue it to be adjusted down, since both teams apply cap to 20-man roster, it would be relatively more punitive compared to the other team.

Flat cap in playoffs has a lot of variables to consider, more complicated than at first brush. Hence why I think no cap after deadline makes most sense.

 

[hairylikebear]

One other wrinkle I've thought of regarding implementing a cap during playoffs, how does it take into account things like salary retention and buyouts? During the regular season that would be a negative, but then does that come off in the playoffs or does that count against the roster?

If those don't count, then a team with retention/buyouts could LTIR a player until playoffs, bring in people from deadline, then activate LTIR player, stay under the cap, but basically benefit by not having retention/buyouts.

If you want to count retention/buyouts, does that then need to be adjusted if you're just applying cap to the 20-man iced roster? Not really fair to count the full retention/buyout hit - maybe it should be adjusted up since during regular season its a 23-man roster, so the retention/buyout hit should be relatively the same; conversely you could argue it to be adjusted down, since both teams apply cap to 20-man roster, it would be relatively more punitive compared to the other team.

Flat cap in playoffs has a lot of variables to consider, more complicated than at first brush. Hence why I think no cap after deadline makes most sense.

Buyouts are ineligible to play, they wouldn't count. Retained contracts would count if they are dressed.

I hate this idea because it makes the coach have to worry about the salary cap. There would need to be some kind of "playoff roster" submitted like in the MLB that has to be compliant with ... something ... and then once the series actually starts anyone on that list is fair game for the coach to use.

My issue with the no cap after deadline idea is it rearranges dates without addressing the core issue, though it makes the contract stashing portion of the year longer, so that's a disincentive I guess. It's also a nuclear approach to a relatively small issue, IMO.

 

[pantherbot]

Buyouts are ineligible to play, they wouldn't count. Retained contracts would count if they are dressed.

I hate this idea because it makes the coach have to worry about the salary cap. There would need to be some kind of "playoff roster" submitted like in the MLB that has to be compliant with ... something ... and then once the series actually starts anyone on that list is fair game for the coach to use.

My issue with the no cap after deadline idea is it rearranges dates without addressing the core issue, though it makes the contract stashing portion of the year longer, so that's a disincentive I guess. It's also a nuclear approach to a relatively small issue, IMO.

I think you're missing what I mean. Teams get hit with buyout and retention, that takes up cap space in the regular season. If you go into playoffs, do those count against the cap? If not, then that's an advantage for a team, and if it does then you'll need to settle on a method to be fair, that's not going to be easy.

What's the core issue? Pretty sure its unfairness in competition due to having injury luck. this basically evens the playing field. Removing the cap at the trade deadline does solve that. Yes a team could stash a player on LTIR and wait until after the deadline, but that team would be bidding against all the other teams that can add players too.

 

[Nemec]

Memo to HFBoards

If you think teams plan to keep their best players out for long stretches of the year, and players are faking injuries in order to cheat their way to a Cup, just don't.

It is very naive to believe that teams won't try anything and everything within the margins of the rulebook to give them an advantage.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

One other wrinkle I've thought of regarding implementing a cap during playoffs, how does it take into account things like salary retention and buyouts? During the regular season that would be a negative, but then does that come off in the playoffs or does that count against the roster?

You're getting closer to realizing why "let's just have a cap for the playoffs" isn't nearly as simple as it sounds. Next: realizing why

Hence why I think no cap after deadline makes most sense.

Also has lots of potential issues. [Spoiler: one of them is the very topic of this thread.]