Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[snag]

So you disagree with me and think no other front offices would make deals with “cheaters?” Your point doesn’t make any sense.

You mentioned a few teams. I pointed out what pretty much what every one the teams Vegas has dealth with had in commeon. There was a reason they dealt with the Knights. They were in a position to sell and reap what they could when they could. It isn't a matter of willingness or morality as much as it was opportunity.

Also you said "It sure looks like other front offices are still willing to do deals with the Knights (no matter how many fans accuse Vegas of cap circumvention).)". That is where the conjecture comes in.....what other teams actually completed a deal? Again, it was used how many times in this thread to defend LTIR? The only teams that have done a deal with Vegas in the last couple years other than dumping salary to Carolina, were non-playoffs teams.

I get it, but there does need to be a kitty for teams to dip into when they lose players to injury, or you’ll have teams that can’t even ice a team some games

Maybe it caps at $xM, I don’t know. The cap sucks.

Teams should be able to make actual hockey trades again

No. f*** it. You lose player, sucks to be you. Better luck next year. Or dip into the farm.

 

[McFlyingV]

I get it, but there does need to be a kitty for teams to dip into when they lose players to injury, or you’ll have teams that can’t even ice a team some games

Maybe it caps at $xM, I don’t know. The cap sucks.

Teams should be able to make actual hockey trades again

That's not true. Injuries could give the same cap forgiveness as sending a player to the AHL. There would always be a 1mil or less call up to fill in.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I agree

Vegas has shown the ability to resolve all cap issues in the summer to a lot of peoples bewilderment. They always seem to find that team in the summer desperate to improve.

off season 2023
1. Pittsburgh penguins with Reily Smith

off season of 2022 was a double whammy.
1. Carolina over with Max Pacioretty.
2. Montreal with Evgeni Dadonov.

off season of 2021
1. Mark Andre Fleury gets unloaded to Chicago.

off season of 2020
1. Nate Schmidt
2. Paul Stastny

Geez I just went back looking at their off season trades of significance the last 4 years and they pull it off every summer. And I'm guessing EVERY team they traded with had to some extent buyers remorse?

My guess is that is exactly why McCrimmon picked up Hertl from the discount table, knowing that some desperate GM needing to notch his wall with a high-profile acquisition will take that contract off his hands during the summer. Otherwise, Hertl doesn't make much long-term sense for Vegas.

 

[Pete Taylor]

Fix what? NOTHING needs to be fixed

Oh come on, I would be thrilled if my team did this too, I am not complaining. If you can bend the rules, bend them.

But to not acknowlegde that it is an issue is just silly and honestly moronic.

 

[Three On Zero]

Oh come on, I would be thrilled if my team did this too, I am not complaining. If you can bend the rules, bend them.

But to not acknowlegde that it is an issue is just silly and honestly moronic.

Something is only an issue if you gain an unfair advantage over your competition

Vegas actively trading for players and using assets that ALL 32 teams have to acquire players is not an unfair advantage.

How do you punish teams for being located I desirable markets and using THEIR assets to acquire players?

This isn’t some voodoo magic that only Vegas can use.

It was fine when Chicago did it, it was fine when Tampa did it and it’s still fine that Vegas is doing it

 

[deca guard]

WHINERS GONNA WHINE , LMAO

 

[Vegas07]

You mentioned a few teams. I pointed out what pretty much what every one the teams Vegas has dealth with had in commeon. There was a reason they dealt with the Knights. They were in a position to sell and reap what they could when they could. It isn't a matter of willingness or morality as much as it was opportunity.

Also you said "It sure looks like other front offices are still willing to do deals with the Knights (no matter how many fans accuse Vegas of cap circumvention).)". That is where the conjecture comes in.....what other teams actually completed a deal? Again, it was used how many times in this thread to defend LTIR? The only teams that have done a deal with Vegas in the last couple years other than dumping salary to Carolina, were non-playoffs teams.

I think a bigger complaint isn’t people using conjecture but how there are so many doctors on the internet whenever a player gets hurt. Injuries are not as simple of a topic as people make it seem.

 

[pantherbot]

Fix what? NOTHING needs to be fixed

lol this guy...classic example of someone defending a broken system because they're willing to abuse or benefit from it. If you really think this is how the cap system was meant to work, you're delusional.

Don't disagree with you that what Vegas does is technically within the rules, but disingenuous to think the system is working as intended. And no, Vegas management is not somehow just magically smarter than all the other teams. If a bunch of people on the internet can figure out how to do what they do, pretty sure so can the other teams. They just don't have the money or desire to do so because its clearly stretching the rules.

But you go ahead and celebrate Vegas management's willingness to bend the rules and take advantage of a system that's broken.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

How do you punish teams for being located I desirable markets and using THEIR assets to acquire players?

OMG, this is too simple. We'll make them move so they're less desirable.

And then, when they struggle in that new market, we'll make them move again. Buf if they're still good, we'll make them move again as further punishment.

And then, if they get good in that market, we'll make them move again. But if they don't, we'll make them move anyway for being terrible.

And if they're good but someone else struggles as a result, we'll make both of them move.

And then if one or both of them struggles in the new places, we'll make them move somewhere else.

And then we're going to keep doing that, and doing that, and more teams will get involved, and we'll keep doing that, and we'll do it some more, ...


.... and then eventually, everything will be fair.

And then we'll complain things are too boring, and we'll have to fix that.

 

[TheBeard]

My guess is that is exactly why McCrimmon picked up Hertl from the discount table, knowing that some desperate GM needing to notch his wall with a high-profile acquisition will take that contract off his hands during the summer. Otherwise, Hertl doesn't make much long-term sense for Vegas.

I don't think anything Vegas does makes long-term sense, but it doesn't need to.

 

[Strangle]

No. f*** it. You lose player, sucks to be you. Better luck next year. Or dip into the farm.

You might not be able to have any cap space to ‘dip into the farm’

I guess the league could make injury call-ups not count against the cap, but they currently do

 

[TheBeard]

But you go ahead and celebrate Vegas management's willingness to bend the rules and take advantage of a system that's broken.

It's a broken system, but until it's fixed then c'est la vie.

But anyone that says this isn't the equivalent of Vegas trying to buy a team is just trying to deflect.

You might not be able to have any cap space to ‘dip into the farm’

I guess the league could make injury call-ups not count against the cap, but they currently do

I mean that's how it works in football.

 

[Strangle]

That's not true. Injuries could give the same cap forgiveness as sending a player to the AHL. There would always be a 1mil or less call up to fill in.

Sure, then I’m fine with that. As long as the team can fill out their roster I’m for it

It's a broken system, but until it's fixed then c'est la vie.

But anyone that says this isn't the equivalent of Vegas trying to buy a team is just trying to deflect.


I mean that's how it works in football.

I’d love a similar system to the NFL. Cutting players would swing the balance of power back a little bit to the teams, which would be great

 

[snag]

Something is only an issue if you gain an unfair advantage over your competition

Vegas actively trading for players and using assets that ALL 32 teams have to acquire players is not an unfair advantage.

How do you punish teams for being located I desirable markets and using THEIR assets to acquire players?

This isn’t some voodoo magic that only Vegas can use.

It was fine when Chicago did it, it was fine when Tampa did it and it’s still fine that Vegas is doing it

Not every team does have though.

A healthy team can't.

 

[Three On Zero]

lol this guy...classic example of someone defending a broken system because they're willing to abuse or benefit from it. If you really think this is how the cap system was meant to work, you're delusional.

Don't disagree with you that what Vegas does is technically within the rules, but disingenuous to think the system is working as intended. And no, Vegas management is not somehow just magically smarter than all the other teams. If a bunch of people on the internet can figure out how to do what they do, pretty sure so can the other teams. They just don't have the money or desire to do so because its clearly stretching the rules.

But you go ahead and celebrate Vegas management's willingness to bend the rules and take advantage of a system that's broken.

Systems not broken, it’s working exactly as its intended to

 

[pantherbot]

Something is only an issue if you gain an unfair advantage over your competition

Vegas actively trading for players and using assets that ALL 32 teams have to acquire players is not an unfair advantage.

How do you punish teams for being located I desirable markets and using THEIR assets to acquire players?

This isn’t some voodoo magic that only Vegas can use.

It was fine when Chicago did it, it was fine when Tampa did it and it’s still fine that Vegas is doing it

No one is saying Vegas has an unfair advantage. They're saying Vegas is taking advantage of a broken system. You're just being blind to it so you can feel better about your team.

 

[Three On Zero]

Not every team does have though.

A healthy team can't.

So further punish players for getting hurt? The NHLPA will have a field day with that one

No one is saying Vegas has an unfair advantage. They're saying Vegas is taking advantage of a broken system. You're just being blind to it so you can feel better about your team.

MY team is likely playing against Vegas in the 1st round.

System isn’t broken, it’s working as it was intended to

 

[snag]

So further punish players for getting hurt? The NHLPA will have a field day with that one

But we are punishing teams that stay healthy....

 

[pantherbot]

Systems not broken, it’s working exactly as its intended to

You're telling me when the cap system was put in place, the NHL and NHLPA wanted a situation where one team (Arizona) is getting to the cap floor by taking on LTIR contracts while another team (Vegas) actively manages when players come back from legit injuries so they can go over the cap in the playoffs?

Fact that the Lightning actually complained about it tells you that's not what was intended. You could claim its an unintended consequence of how the rules have been set up and they're just leaving it as is, but this is not what was intended.

 

[TheBeard]

I’d love a similar system to the NFL. Cutting players would swing the balance of power back a little bit to the teams, which would be great

Cutting with dead cap and such. I'm fine with that. Right now Vegas is proving that the risks aren't close to the rewards in terms of making moves. Good on them for exploiting that.

 

[Three On Zero]

But we are punishing teams that stay healthy....

All teams have the field a cap compliant team in the regular season, a healthy team is far less likely to miss than a team with serious injuries.


Do you think a team with a healthy McDavid or a team without mcdavid but 2 $5 million players would fair better? Healthy teams are not being punished

You're telling me when the cap system was put in place, the NHL and NHLPA wanted a situation where one team (Arizona) is getting to the cap floor by taking on LTIR contracts while another team (Vegas) actively manages when players come back from legit injuries so they can go over the cap in the playoffs?

Fact that the Lightning actually complained about it tells you that's not what was intended. You could claim its an unintended consequence of how the rules have been set up and they're just leaving it as is, but this is not what was intended.

do they want it? Maybe not

Do they encourage teams to use what’s provided? Absolutely

 

[JoVel]

I think calling what Vegas does cheating is pretty dumb, because cheating would imply they're doing something the NHL doesn't want them to do. Which is clearly not the case.

 

[TheBeard]

System isn’t broken, it’s working as it was intended to

I'm sure you'll be saying the same thing after Mark Stone's hattrick completes the four game sweep.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

As far as I'm concerned, if 31 other owners are willing to remain complicit in this farce, then it is indeed 'working as intended.'

Let's be clear though, this is very much a farce.

 

[Three On Zero]

Cutting with dead cap and such. I'm fine with that. Right now Vegas is proving that the risks aren't close to the rewards in terms of making moves. Good on them for exploiting that.

Injuries are causing them the free fall in the standings, this isn’t some magic pill

I'm sure you'll be saying the same thing after Mark Stone's hattrick completes the four game sweep.

I will be, because this is the system the league allowed them to have. They haven’t cheated, they haven’t broken any rules