Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[AKL]

People are losing their minds, claiming Mark Stone is faking his injury, as if he hasn't been injured his entire career.

I could be wrong, I didn't read through this entire thread. I don't think most people are claiming Stone is faking the injury. As usual, I would guess most people believe the injury is legit, but that the timeframe surrounding the injury is questionable.

Of course we'll have to see how the rest of the season plays out, but you have to admit when guys get injured in January/February, go on the LTIR, their team replaces that cap hit, and then the injured player is ready for game 1 of the playoffs, the timeline of that injury lining up 100% perfectly for the team is a little suspicious. A day sooner and the team would be way over cap, a day later and that player misses an important game. There's a one day window and they absolutely nailed it?

In a situation like that, do you think there's at least a chance that the team is holding him out until the cap no longer matters, even though he would otherwise be healthy enough to play?

 

[Three On Zero]

Mark Stone has a lacerated spleen. The lengths Vegas goes to to circumvent the cap is astounding. Real championship caliber.

95% of the replies are some a single fan base, it’s easy to see why this is such an issue for them. They risk once again being knocked out by Vegas

I could be wrong, I didn't read through this entire thread. I don't think most people are claiming Stone is faking the injury. As usual, I would guess most people believe the injury is legit, but that the timeframe surrounding the injury is questionable.

Of course we'll have to see how the rest of the season plays out, but you have to admit when guys get injured in January/February, go on the LTIR, their team replaces that cap hit, and then the injured player is ready for game 1 of the playoffs, the timeline of that injury lining up 100% perfectly for the team is a little suspicious. A day sooner and the team would be way over cap, a day later and that player misses an important game. There's a one day window and they absolutely nailed it?

In a situation like that, do you think there's at least a chance that the team is holding him out until the cap no longer matters, even though he would otherwise be healthy enough to play?

Teams can’t withhold healthy players though, the NHL employs doctors who also check in on these players. These guy are probably still deemed injured but they’ll still start the playoffs even if not 100%

 

[AKL]

95% of the replies are some a single fan base, it’s easy to see why this is such an issue for them. They risk once again being knocked out by Vegas


Teams can’t withhold healthy players though, the NHL employs doctors who also check in on these players.

Yeah they can't withhold healthy players in the same way that citizens living in a country can't commit tax fraud, or theft, or insider trading, or any other numerous things generally considered "crimes". That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There was just a huge scandal with the Mets GM abusing the IL in a similar way. You would be foolish to think teams won't try whatever they can to get a competitive advantage.

I'm not saying that's for sure what's happening here, again, if Stone misses actual playoff games or comes back before the regular season is over, it obviously isn't what's happening in this instance. But it would be naive to think teams don't try to game the system despite there being "rules" in place.

 

[Crede777]

They're not circumventing the cap since players don't receive a salary in the postseason - hence no cap.

If they're breaking any rules, it is in regards to LTIR and player health. If players are healthy enough to return in the regular season, teams should be forced to remove them from LTIR otherwise insurance is paying for player salaries when they shouldn't. Otherwise, if players are being forced to return before they're actually healthy enough to do so, then the players are risking further more extensive injury. Either way, the league should have more overview of when players go on and off LTIR.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Bad narrative is bad, Knights were cap compliant when they played in the finals. It’s no coincidence that the thread was made by a fan of the team they beat last year

Lol, no it's not. A quick glance at my username should let you know, I know, who is posting over at HFPanthers

 

[Dazed and Confused]

For me, I see an easy fix.

Just make it so if you're unable to suit up for games 80 through 82 (basically the last week of the season), then you're unable to come off LTIR for the first round. (at least)

 

[Three On Zero]

Lol, no it's not. A quick glance at my username should let you know, I know, who is posting over at HFPanthers

?

 

[Chaos2k7]

?

You said the thread was made by a Panthers fan, it wasn't

 

[Three On Zero]

You said the thread was made by a Panthers fan, it wasn't

No no no, misunderstanding. I meant it was made by an Oilers fan. The finals comment was just about being cap compliant and not about who made it.

I know Panther fans wouldn’t make comments like this

 

[iCanada]

Don't they have LTIR space for Hamilton... I actually thought they would be the first team to do it this season.

Kovalchuk told them not to circumvent the cap.

 

[snag]

Except it’s not sketchy at all. The NHL even has its own doctors checking up to help confirm things. Who do you trust more, the doctors, who are experts in this topic, or the average fan that is a hater?

Sketchy is returning in Game 1 after months of "recovery". Stone did it. Kucherov did it. And both won the Cup.

 

[DRW895]

Vegas is having too many injuries this year. 3+ years after Kucherov`s case many people are trying to look for the same case, but it`s almost impossible to repeat

 

[Shane Diesel]

Sketchy is returning in Game 1 after months of recovery. Stone did it. Kucherov did it. And both won the Cup.

View attachment 823874

Dr. Hadi Shah? We're honored by your presence. Isn't revealing patient information unethical? Who pressured you to file false medical information with the league? Will you be going to the authorities with your accusations? How did the NHL respond to your fears Kucherov was held out against the rules?

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Fun thread of fans of teams that aren’t in the playoffs and don’t give two shits about them doing it and the fans of teams that are more than likely going to get screwed over by this.

If I’m Edmonton, Dallas, Colorado, or Vancouver, I am going everything in my power to do the exact same shit as them.

Get a getting war going for Guentzel please and thanks.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Next CBA without a doubt they're gonna make sweeping changes where somehow you're gonna get dinged in the postseason....its gonna suck for teams who suffer a major injury late before the TDL but I would be beyond surprised if it does not happen.

Prepare to be beyond surprised, because it's not going to happen.

OK, let me say it another way: it's likely they won't do anything because the NHLPA will have to agree to it, and I don't know what the NHL is giving up in exchange for that [because the NHLPA is definitely giving up something], but if something does happen it's guaranteed to be a shitty non-solution to the actual problem, kind of like how dramatically reducing contract lengths [which then increased cap hits for players ... which then caused fans to scream about the inability of teams to keep players together because of the sudden lack of cap space] and dramatically reducing back-diving front-loaded contracts didn't fix the real problem: teams were offering ultra-long contracts by tacking on low-dollar years where the player was very unlikely to be playing, in order to circumvent the cap ... and, those teams signing those contracts never had to realize the cap savings they gained from those contracts.

Oh, and it will probably create unintended problems that fans will then bitch about and demand solutions for. But, that should be obvious.

I think having your game day lineup aav not exceeding the regular season cap hit is fair.

So if I have a team that I put together for $80 million on an $85 million cap, I ran it for 4/5ths of the season and had saved $4 million on the cap, then used that cap space to go add guys at the trade deadline and the after-TDL roster had a collective cap hit of $100 million - which means at the end of the season I'd only spent $84 million in total against the cap - I can only play players whose collective cap hits add to $85 million.

Even though, were it Game 82 of the regular season, I could play all $100 million and it would be perfectly legal.

That definitely won't be a problem, and no team will object.

Cause if not you have teams that are like 10+mill winning the cup which is unfair to the other teams.

Life isn't fair.

 

[0494]

Sketchy is returning in Game 1 after months of "recovery". Stone did it. Kucherov did it. And both won the Cup.

View attachment 823874

The Hawks also won in 2015 while using this loophole if I recall correctly.

 

[snag]

The Hawks also won in 2015 while using this loophole if I recall correctly.

Yep...and it raised eyebrows then too (and they started it all)

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The latest Tape2Tape looks at Frank Seravalli's uncovering of the Patrick Kane loophole in the NHL's playoff salary and how it needs to be looked at.

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[iCanada]

Prepare to be beyond surprised, because it's not going to happen.

OK, let me say it another way: it's likely they won't do anything because the NHLPA will have to agree to it, and I don't know what the NHL is giving up in exchange for that [because the NHLPA is definitely giving up something], but if something does happen it's guaranteed to be a shitty non-solution to the actual problem, kind of like how dramatically reducing contract lengths [which then increased cap hits for players ... which then caused fans to scream about the inability of teams to keep players together because of the sudden lack of cap space] and dramatically reducing back-diving front-loaded contracts didn't fix the real problem: teams were offering ultra-long contracts by tacking on low-dollar years where the player was very unlikely to be playing, in order to circumvent the cap ... and, those teams signing those contracts never had to realize the cap savings they gained from those contracts.

Oh, and it will probably create unintended problems that fans will then bitch about and demand solutions for. But, that should be obvious.


So if I have a team that I put together for $80 million on an $85 million cap, I ran it for 4/5ths of the season and had saved $4 million on the cap, then used that cap space to go add guys at the trade deadline and the after-TDL roster had a collective cap hit of $100 million - which means at the end of the season I'd only spent $84 million in total against the cap - I can only play players whose collective cap hits add to $85 million.

Even though, were it Game 82 of the regular season, I could play all $100 million and it would be perfectly legal.

That definitely won't be a problem, and no team will object.


Life isn't fair.

I think @CycloneSweep is saying that instead of having daily call accruals make the cap a flat number; any given 20 man roster dressed for a game must have AAV total below the cap for any given game. None of this daily accrual or buried in the minors stuff - if you're in your full AAV counts, if you're out none of your AAV counts.


Easy. Simple.

 

[Vegas07]

Sketchy is returning in Game 1 after months of "recovery". Stone did it. Kucherov did it. Sketchy is returning in Game 1 after months of "recovery". Stone did it. Kucherov did it. And

So where is the proof for a miracle? A guy has back surgery, returns months later and that’s it? That’s the case?

Okay, you guys say it’s suspicious because he came back for game 1. But that isn’t evidence the player is fully recovered. Yet I see posts here saying people came back 100%. How do they know that? There was video of Stone limping in practice after game 1. I don’t know about you, but if someone is limping after another back surgery chances are he is still hurt.

Just because a guy plays in the NHL doesn’t mean he is 100%, unhurt, or even close to 100%. Players in the NHL do play with injuries. How do we know he didn’t rush back too early to play in the playoffs? Oh wait, if we consider that possibility we are being too logical.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I think @CycloneSweep is saying that instead of having daily call accruals make the cap a flat number; any given 20 man roster dressed for a game must have AAV total below the cap for any given game. None of this daily accrual or buried in the minors stuff - if you're in your full AAV counts, if you're out none of your AAV counts.


Easy. Simple.

That would kill the trade deadline for the most part.

 

[TheNumber4]

 

[Vegas07]

Lots of posts here saying people will cheat. But it should also be mentioned that there are also false accusations of cheating that happen too.

 

[TheNumber4]

You know for all we know Stone has had this lacerated spleen issue for awhile. And let’s say it’s a level 1 out of 5 severity injury. Has been playing with it and playing through it. Told to hold off on getting it properly addressed. Then told yesterday it’s time to go and get that minor surgery with a reliable and near 100% success rate of recovery. That’s one way this cap cheating can happen without even needing doctor corruption involved or faking of an injury.

 

[Panteras]

I’m sorry, can someone explain to me like I’m 5 years old exactly why the cap is somehow impossible to implement during the playoffs the same it’s done during the regular season?

 

[Vegas07]

No idea what 'board' you are talking about. But i can assure you I'm not on it.

Vegas is not in threat of not making the playoffs. Please quote me when they fall our of the playoffs.

Please quote me after the TDL when Vegas doesn't pick up any significant players. Really let me have it. I was wrong about Leafs winning without Reilly recently. Totally admitted I was wrong. Happy to do that here too.

I think there is definitely a change of missing the playoffs. In my opinion it’s more likely than winning another cup. Two years ago people said there was no way the team would miss the playoffs and then it happened.