Proposal: Vancouver - Montreal

[FerrisRox]

Xhekaj and Jake Evans for Hoglander, Poolman (IR/LTIR), 2025 1st, and an extra 3rd or 4th round pick.

Hoglander and his 24 goals last season is a cheap top 9 option at $1.1M. Agitator, high energy, offensive skill and could be a complimentary piece to the top 6. Also has breakout potential.

Canucks need a right hand centerman and some depth on the left side considering we are thin. After Hughes, it’s Soucy and Forbort.

The Canadiens need to get bigger and tougher. This trade makes them smaller and significantly less tough. Hoglander, at 5'9 has no chance of playing in the Canadiens top nine. He's absolutely wrong for them.

This is a very easy no for the Canadiens.

 

[HairyKneel]

Hoglander is easily good enough to be playing in the Habs top 9 but I wouldn't make that trade if I'm Montreal.

Vancouver needs to stop hemorrhaging picks.

 

[Wayfarer13]

The error in your math is you took all goals Montembault let in, all goals Primeau let in, and then, instead of taking 10 seconds to look at jake allen's stats and realize he let in 74 goals, you simply used every other goal MTL allowed, which was 96.

So in that, you have attributed 24 extra goals against as jake allen's fault, despite him letting none of them in.

I extended CP

The error in your math is you took all goals Montembault let in, all goals Primeau let in, and then, instead of taking 10 seconds to look at jake allen's stats and realize he let in 74 goals, you simply used every other goal MTL allowed, which was 96.

So in that, you have attributed 24 extra goals against as jake allen's fault, despite him letting none of them in.

There is descrepancy in the numbers and puzzle Herr.The total GA for the 3 goaltenders is 267 while the team is listed as having 289 GA for a difference of 22 not 24.Do we have 22 goals to account for. More Hockey Stats lists the Habs as having 14 EN GA of which 13 I can identify fy which likely are not charged yo the goaltenders.This leaves us 8 goals to account for.1 possible would SOL winning goals which would be 12.Nether together or separate balances the books.
One thing I did learn That Habs lost 15 games in regulation by 2 goals many of which the second goal was the empty goal. To go along with the 41 1 goals makes 56 games they in the thick of things up to the end of regulation.

 

[dgibb10]

I extended CP
There is descrepancy in the numbers and puzzle Herr.The total GA for the 3 goaltenders is 267 while the team is listed as having 289 GA for a difference of 22 not 24.Do we have 22 goals to account for. More Hockey Stats lists the Habs as having 14 EN GA of which 13 I can identify fy which likely are not charged yo the goaltenders.This leaves us 8 goals to account for.1 possible would SOL winning goals which would be 12.Nether together or separate balances the books.
One thing I did learn That Habs lost 15 games in regulation by 2 goals many of which the second goal was the empty goal. To go along with the 41 1 goals makes 56 games they in the thick of things up to the end of regulation.

And yet they had a bottom 5 goal differential in the league

 

[Wayfarer13]

And yet they had a bottom 5 goal differential in the league

Amongst youngest teams in the league with the youngest blueline in year 2 of a rebuild. The defense will come with games played and systems are taught.The offense will come with games played. Lots to find encouraging here. Predicting a lot of this team us overrated posts this year.They were right in on 56 games last year and with very young team the games where things went south that distorted the goal differential stat.

 

[Anardil]

Really? I give Habs fan a bad name?

-Primeau is not a noticeable downgrade on Allen (if not an upgrade).
-If Dach plays like he's shown he can, he's a definite upgrade.
-Our depth on D is better than last year, not sure what you've been watching. Kovacevic was traded because we had too much depth.
- How is our forward core younger? Every young guy is a year older and closer to their prime.

I think you underestimate the ability of the young guys and forget that many key pieces missed good chunks of the season last year.

If the habs stay healthy they will do better than last year and at the very least be competitive vs the rest of the bottom 4 in the division.

No idea where we finish, but the Habs performance should keep climbing up like it did last year.

Not that it means much one way or another, but McCagg recently was on Marinaro's podcast and the title was: The rebuild is over. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Anardil]

6/7 would be an improvement over last year.

I expect the Habs to be somewhere in the 6-15 range. The high variation being due to health and progression of the young guys.

That is very different from stating that the rebuild is over. It is debatable, but also possible that the team will improve, but the blowback that you are getting is due to the fact that one of your first statements was that the rebuild is over, which is just not true, given HuGo lack of movement since the draft, and just looking at the Habs division.

 

[Treb]

That is very different from stating that the rebuild is over. It is debatable, but also possible that the team will improve, but the blowback that you are getting is due to the fact that one of your first statements was that the rebuild is over, which is just not true, given HuGo lack of movement since the draft, and just looking at the Habs division.

To me the rebuild is over when you start climbing back up which I believe is what they're doing.

Other people think the rebuild is over only when you start to contend.

 

[Wayfarer13]

To me the rebuild is over when you start climbing back up which I believe is what they're doing.

Other people think the rebuild is over only when you start to contend.

Words have usages not inherent meaning

 

[Treb]

Words have usages not inherent meaning

When is a rebuild over? Is it:

When the new core is assembled? (Montreal is here)

When the new core makes the playoffs?

When the new core arrive at maturity?

When the new core starts contending?

 

[Wayfarer13]

When is a rebuild over? Is it:

When the new core is assembled? (Montreal is here)

When the new core makes the playoffs?

When the new core arrive at maturity?

When the new core starts contending?

Seems to be centered around whether you like the team or not.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Arber just another in a long line of overrated players that Montreal fans think are deserving of top line compensation. The guy is gonna be a run of the mill 6th defenseman for his career.

 

[Qwijibo]

Arber just another in a long line of overrated players that Montreal fans think are deserving of top line compensation. The guy is gonna be a run of the mill 6th defenseman for his career.

If you say so

 

[Mayday1980]

In the end, this trade really doesn't solve a need for either team. It strikes me as "dead on arrival". Montreal's smurf ratio at FWD is currently too high to absorb a Hoglander, who is a decent piece but alot of Canuck forwards had career scoring rates this past year. I'm not saying they aren't a playoff team next season but the Quinn Hughes magic better continue to work wonders lol

Xhekaj is a late bloomer who is about 2 seasons of hockey XP behind his actual age and Dmen tend to need lots of XP to improve in the NHL. Evans you could have but this is a classic "Sell my assets at their highest, drop some magic beans about the 1st being worth more because who knows how good VAN is next year. Then let's buy low on the toolsy Dman who spent time in the AHL this year and was injured but who also has rag-dolled half of the toughest customers in the NHL in the last 2 years.

The trade is currently an overpay by VAN but it's not the right overpay assets..... You'd have to give up Lekkermaki to get Xhekaj, I don't see anything else that would move the needle enuff for MTL that VAN would consider trading. Xhekaj could just end up being a 6-7th dman if his hockey sense/decision doesn't improve but he could also top out as a 2nd pairing guy that prevents you from having to run a goon in your lineup that can't play hockey.

 

[TBF1972]

Words have usages not inherent meaning

this explains a few things for me

 

[Wayfarer13]

this explains a few things for a

this explains a few things for me

Learned that after having a go to with a street preacher in London a decade ago over the word truth.The common usage of the word truth is something is true because it agrees with being true as in it is a fact. The theological usage would be something is true because one believes it to be not that it is. See a bit of that in here

 

[dgibb10]

In the end, this trade really doesn't solve a need for either team. It strikes me as "dead on arrival". Montreal's smurf ratio at FWD is currently too high to absorb a Hoglander, who is a decent piece but alot of Canuck forwards had career scoring rates this past year. I'm not saying they aren't a playoff team next season but the Quinn Hughes magic better continue to work wonders lol

Xhekaj is a late bloomer who is about 2 seasons of hockey XP behind his actual age and Dmen tend to need lots of XP to improve in the NHL. Evans you could have but this is a classic "Sell my assets at their highest, drop some magic beans about the 1st being worth more because who knows how good VAN is next year. Then let's buy low on the toolsy Dman who spent time in the AHL this year and was injured but who also has rag-dolled half of the toughest customers in the NHL in the last 2 years.

The trade is currently an overpay by VAN but it's not the right overpay assets..... You'd have to give up Lekkermaki to get Xhekaj, I don't see anything else that would move the needle enuff for MTL that VAN would consider trading. Xhekaj could just end up being a 6-7th dman if his hockey sense/decision doesn't improve but he could also top out as a 2nd pairing guy that prevents you from having to run a goon in your lineup that can't play hockey.

Arber Xhekaj IS the goon in your lineup who can't play hockey

 

[bud12]

Arber Xhekaj IS the goon in your lineup who can't play hockey

And you're the one who look like a fool in this thread

 

[HabsAddict]

In the end, this trade really doesn't solve a need for either team. It strikes me as "dead on arrival". Montreal's smurf ratio at FWD is currently too high to absorb a Hoglander, who is a decent piece but alot of Canuck forwards had career scoring rates this past year. I'm not saying they aren't a playoff team next season but the Quinn Hughes magic better continue to work wonders lol

Xhekaj is a late bloomer who is about 2 seasons of hockey XP behind his actual age and Dmen tend to need lots of XP to improve in the NHL. Evans you could have but this is a classic "Sell my assets at their highest, drop some magic beans about the 1st being worth more because who knows how good VAN is next year. Then let's buy low on the toolsy Dman who spent time in the AHL this year and was injured but who also has rag-dolled half of the toughest customers in the NHL in the last 2 years.

The trade is currently an overpay by VAN but it's not the right overpay assets..... You'd have to give up Lekkermaki to get Xhekaj, I don't see anything else that would move the needle enuff for MTL that VAN would consider trading. Xhekaj could just end up being a 6-7th dman if his hockey sense/decision doesn't improve but he could also top out as a 2nd pairing guy that prevents you from having to run a goon in your lineup that can't play hockey.

X and Mailman are a match like no other in the NHL. Huge, tough guys that just need time to gel and reach their potential. They are literally 245 and 225 pounds of nasty but also can play hockey. I don't see them as a top pairing,, but very easily a second pairing that can play the game any way the opposition wants.

Unless there is a massive, massive overpayment, there is no way that either will be available.

 

[Anardil]

To me the rebuild is over when you start climbing back up which I believe is what they're doing.

Other people think the rebuild is over only when you start to contend.

Well, unfortunately, I think that you are going to find next season veeeeeery long.

And just to clarify, I believe that the rebuild will be over when this team is in the discussion of making the playoffs every year without a boatload of "conditional ifs".

 

[Habssince89]

Arber Xhekaj IS the goon in your lineup who can't play hockey

watch some games

 

[dgibb10]

watch some games

I understand MTL fans frame of reference on what competent defensive play looks like is a bit skewed since they have been the worst defensive team in hockey over the last 3 years.

 

[Johnsie19]

Success" is a subjective term. You seem to believe a 23 yr old forward in his 3rd pro season that can't get regular minutes is worth a lot more than the GM of your own team thinks. I don't share your idea of "success" either, if what we are talking about is the value of a player to a team with cup contention aspirations.

Fyi, Armia had 17 goals last year, despite not even making the Habs out of camp. Goals from a "4th liner" are great. A guy who can't get regular minutes despite goal scoring ability, not so much. Pretty simple really.

Even for the lowly Habs, only AHL call ups, rookies getting a taste of NHL time & waiver fodder players got as little ice time as hoglander earned in Van last year... Despite his 24 es goals and 20% shooting %. You'd think a team would be eager to increase a player's usage with that kind of output, not staple him to the bench when it matters most...unless :naught

Again the devil is in the details. His first two NHL season came on a terrible team, he was fast tracked to the NHL because the Canucks had little depth. They then began to accrue players and were able to let him develop for a season as a main guy in the AHL. He comes up scores 24 goals, looks great, ends the yr playing with Pettersson. What more do you want from him? He's a young player learning the game and slowly building trust with his coach.

Still Nope. You continue to argue with yourself while missing the point.

Playing on strong teams inflated the offensive production of depth players. Pretty simple and obvious

Yes of course all players in depth roles on top 6 offensive teams are to be discounted out of hand. This is just a pitiful argument. Ever heard of Verhaeghe, Gourde, Duclair, JT Miller, Zuccarello, Hyman the list could go on forever. These were all at one time depth players because they were learning the defensive side of the game as young players and the teams they were on had better options because they were good teams. Your logic is broken.

His ice time disagrees with you, as does Tocchet's evaluation of his value to a post season roster.

First season, up from AHL, learning defensive side, without pp or pk, still produces 24 goals.

Apparently the cap is something you don't understand either

Literally explained why the Canucks didn't sign Lindholm because he was too expensive against the cap. You are bashing literally one of the best contract on our team and then saying I don't understand the cap. Sure thing pal.

Here's the guy you think is worth more than a 1st plus one of our best young players. Just signed a contract for wow 1.3 mil I wonder why you'd sign him to that? Coincidence that it's the exact amount you can bury him without it affecting your cap? Wonder why they'd do that for a guy in the 2nd percentile for WAR?

 

[Qwijibo]

Again the devil is in the details. His first two NHL season came on a terrible team, he was fast tracked to the NHL because the Canucks had little depth. They then began to accrue players and were able to let him develop for a season as a main guy in the AHL. He comes up scores 24 goals, looks great, ends the yr playing with Pettersson. What more do you want from him? He's a young player learning the game and slowly building trust with his coach.

Yes of course all players in depth roles on top 6 offensive teams are to be discounted out of hand. This is just a pitiful argument. Ever heard of Verhaeghe, Gourde, Duclair, JT Miller, Zuccarello, Hyman the list could go on forever. These were all at one time depth players because they were learning the defensive side of the game as young players and the teams they were on had better options because they were good teams. Your logic is broken.

First season, up from AHL, learning defensive side, without pp or pk, still produces 24 goals.

Literally explained why the Canucks didn't sign Lindholm because he was too expensive against the cap. You are bashing literally one of the best contract on our team and then saying I don't understand the cap. Sure thing pal.


View attachment 898053
Here's the guy you think is worth more than a 1st plus one of our best young players. Just signed a contract for wow 1.3 mil I wonder why you'd sign him to that? Coincidence that it's the exact amount you can bury him without it affecting your cap? Wonder why they'd do that for a guy in the 2nd percentile for WAR?

And yet you want him. Funny how that works.

 

[Essenege]

Arber Xhekaj IS the goon in your lineup who can't play hockey

Abysmal take. Give your head a shake.