Proposal: Vancouver - Montreal

[Johnsie19]

12min regular season
10min post season

Spin however you'd like lol

Again I told you this before but just to drive it home he played 80% of the season on the 4th line. Scored 24 goals in that role. Not one player on the entire Montreal roster scored 24 even strength goals. The own you think you are making is just revealing your ignorance of the situation. I commend you for outing yourself so vehemently.

Armia was 4th in goals for the Habs...
RHP was 4th the year before...

That's a pretty irrelevant metric.

It's very relevant when your argument was that he was the beneficiary of great teammates.

Sorry, thought you were a nucks fan and would be aware of the quality of offensive players that led the way to the teams 6th OA scoring....

He scored most of his point while in the bottom 6. Three strikes you're out.

 

[bud12]

Again I told you this before but just to drive it home he played 80% of the season on the 4th line. Scored 24 goals in that role. Not one player on the entire Montreal roster scored 24 even strength goals. The own you think you are making is just revealing your ignorance of the situation. I commend you for outing yourself so vehemently.


It's very relevant when your argument was that he was the beneficiary of great teammates.

He scored most of his point while in the bottom 6. Three strikes you're out.

Played 80% on the 4th line but his most commun linemate was Petterson. Something doesn't add on

 

[Miller Time]

Again I told you this before but just to drive it home he played 80% of the season on the 4th line. Scored 24 goals in that role. Not one player on the entire Montreal roster scored 24 even strength goals. The own you think you are making is just revealing your ignorance of the situation. I commend you for outing yourself so vehemently.

You are arguing with yourself.

If you don't understand how usage works in pro sports, that's a you issue. How many goals a 4th liner scores is a pretty irrelevant metric, no matter how much it excites you.

It's very relevant when your argument was that he was the beneficiary of great teammates.

Again, your complete lack of understanding of how team sports work is apparent.

That you think Hoglander operated in a vacuum is laughably ignorant. I'm sure there are some hockey 101 YouTube videos that could help.

He scored most of his point while in the bottom 6. Three strikes you're out.

Maybe stick to baseball, if that's a sport you understand better


For Hockey, consider that your GM went out and signed 2 veteran wingers to bolster the Nucks forward group, even though their big offseason loss was at C (Lindholm) and that they've got your "24 goals on the 4th line" 23 year old winger in house and barely played him last season... Gee, I wonder why Allvin didn't have confidence that the underused in-house winger assets weren't good enough to help the team improve

 

[Breakers]

So that's a yes? You'd rather your little heart and soul LW play 4th line centre duties than Jake Evans? Different positions hermano, different needs. Your hate is clouding your reason.

So I trade a quality player simply for position

Brilliant logic, truly brilliant
Evan’s sucks in the his current role
Hoglander on the other hand doesn’t

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Played 80% on the 4th line but his most commun linemate was Petterson. Something doesn't add on

You sure about that?

Nils Höglander is now one of the NHL’s top 5v5 goal-scorers (and it’s a real good thing the Canucks didn’t trade him) - CanucksArmy

Written 4 months ago:

"Höglander’s most frequent linemate this year? Sam Lafferty."

 

[Antiillafire]

If MTL wants to keep a face puncher/physical guy around maybe they should have tried Brendan Smith.

Veteran and elite penalty killer.

He sucks at every other aspect of hockey but he would have at least helped MTLs utterly atrocious PK

Didn’t Nemec say that Smith was an ass who wouldn’t communicate at all when he was paired with him? Quick text to Slaf would be funny to see that

 

[Johnsie19]

Played 80% on the 4th line but his most commun linemate was Petterson. Something doesn't add on

Which part are you having trouble with?

 

[PettersonHughes]

Fair trade. Not saying I’d do it as I really like Xhekaj but it’s a fair deal.



If Vancouver really wants Harris they can just claim him when he hits the waivers. There’s a reason every Habs fan on the planet wants to trade the guy. He can’t even win a full-time spot on one of the worst Dcore in the league.

Also stupid question I’m sure, but what would Montréal have to give to get Lekkerimäki? I have a prospect crush on the dude, he’s gonna be sooooo good.

For Lekkerimaki, either Kaiden Guhle or David Reinbacher. We need more top-4 D on ELCs behind Hughes and Hronek (though Lekki would also be an elite blue-chip asset to add to our offense).

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Wi-Fi is a unique player, but a 1st is an overpay.

 

[Johnsie19]

You are arguing with yourself.

If you don't understand how usage works in pro sports, that's a you issue. How many goals a 4th liner scores is a pretty irrelevant metric, no matter how much it excites you.

This is interesting...it just doesn't matter how successful a player is if he played on the 4th line?

Again, your complete lack of understanding of how team sports work is apparent.

That you think Hoglander operated in a vacuum is laughably ignorant. I'm sure there are some hockey 101 YouTube videos that could help.

Your argument is that his teammates were so good and thats why he did so well. And yet some of his most common linemates were Lafferty, Beauvillier. He made his way to the first line as a guy trying to spark plug Pettersson who basically turned into a useless player after December. Again not stuff that you can find simply on stats. Again though I appreciate the faux conviction but it doesn't really help when I have the actual day-to-day of the team in my back pocket.

Lafferty and Beauvillier are just so dang good that they elevated Hoglander, but then the coach didn't want to elevate them to a higher line he wanted the biggest passenger on the line to play up the lineup. Do you hear yourself ahah.

Maybe stick to baseball, if that's a sport you understand better


For Hockey, consider that your GM went out and signed 2 veteran wingers to bolster the Nucks forward group, even though their big offseason loss was at C (Lindholm) and that they've got your "24 goals on the 4th line" 23 year old winger in house and barely played him last season... Gee, I wonder why Allvin didn't have confidence that the underused in-house winger assets weren't good enough to help the team improve

We won the division last yr dude. Hoglander played a pretty big role in that. In his first full season he went from having to make the team to playing high minutes with Pettersson to finish the season. You're idea about losing Lindholm having anything to do with Hoglander makes zero sense. We tried to sign him and smartly walked away when the contract got too big. There were almost no good centers in UFA so we'll just slide Suter back to center and take advantage of market opportunities on the wing. Which we did.

You're take is that Allvin should have saved money on wingers and just not spent to the cap if Hoglander is so good haha. I have to ask again, do you hear yourself? I assume we'll probably just not even tender Hoglander an offer next yr right, he's that bad.

You really don't know what's going on with this team at all. And yet somehow you think if you act confident to compensate it might all just blow over. Unfortunately you face planted on this one.

 

[bud12]

You sure about that?

Nils Höglander is now one of the NHL’s top 5v5 goal-scorers (and it’s a real good thing the Canucks didn’t trade him) - CanucksArmy

Written 4 months ago:

"Höglander’s most frequent linemate this year? Sam Lafferty."

Look like it

 

[Qwijibo]

For Lekkerimaki, either Kaiden Guhle or David Reinbacher. We need more top-4 D on ELCs behind Hughes and Hronek (though Lekki would also be an elite blue-chip asset to add to our offense).

What are you adding to Lekkerimaki? Because him alone doesn't come close to fetching either guy

 

[Miller Time]

This is interesting...it just doesn't matter how successful a player is if he played on the 4th line?

Nope.
"Success" is a subjective term. You seem to believe a 23 yr old forward in his 3rd pro season that can't get regular minutes is worth a lot more than the GM of your own team thinks. I don't share your idea of "success" either, if what we are talking about is the value of a player to a team with cup contention aspirations.

Fyi, Armia had 17 goals last year, despite not even making the Habs out of camp. Goals from a "4th liner" are great. A guy who can't get regular minutes despite goal scoring ability, not so much. Pretty simple really.

Even for the lowly Habs, only AHL call ups, rookies getting a taste of NHL time & waiver fodder players got as little ice time as hoglander earned in Van last year... Despite his 24 es goals and 20% shooting %. You'd think a team would be eager to increase a player's usage with that kind of output, not staple him to the bench when it matters most...unless :naught

Your argument is that his teammates were so good and thats why he did so well. And yet some of his most common linemates were Lafferty, Beauvillier. He made his way to the first line as a guy trying to spark plug Pettersson who basically turned into a useless player after December. Again not stuff that you can find simply on stats. Again though I appreciate the faux conviction but it doesn't really help when I have the actual day-to-day of the team in my back pocket.

Lafferty and Beauvillier are just so dang good that they elevated Hoglander, but then the coach didn't want to elevate them to a higher line he wanted the biggest passenger on the line to play up the lineup. Do you hear yourself ahah.

Still Nope. You continue to argue with yourself while missing the point.

Playing on strong teams inflated the offensive production of depth players. Pretty simple and obvious.

We won the division last yr dude. Hoglander played a pretty big role in that.

His ice time disagrees with you, as does Tocchet's evaluation of his value to a post season roster.

In his first full season he went from having to make the team to playing high minutes with Pettersson to finish the season. You're idea about losing Lindholm having anything to do with Hoglander makes zero sense. We tried to sign him and smartly walked away when the contract got too big. There were almost no good centers in UFA so we'll just slide Suter back to center and take advantage of market opportunities on the wing. Which we did.

You're take is that Allvin should have saved money on wingers and just not spent to the cap if Hoglander is so good haha. I have to ask again, do you hear yourself? I assume we'll probably just not even tender Hoglander an offer next yr right, he's that bad.

Apparently the cap is something you don't understand either

 

[dgibb10]

Didn’t Nemec say that Smith was an ass who wouldn’t communicate at all when he was paired with him? Quick text to Slaf would be funny to see that

Who knows. Maybe that's why he was such a bad partner for Luke/Nemec as they developed

 

[dgibb10]

Ok .Basic math here.
Monty-2428min 127Ga
CP-1325 min 66GA
2428+1325=3753min
3753 divided by 60 =62.55games
127+66=193 goals against
Divide 193 by 62.55=3.08 GAA
Multiply 3.08x82=252.56 prorated
The Habs allowed 289 goals last year
289-252.55=36.45 goals
This alone would have placed them as a middling team in goals against
Don't care about what Hellebuyuck or Brossoit or Swayman or Ullmark did as Winnipeg as those teams are at a different part of their competitive window and don't know why they are even part of your discussion.
Both Monty and CP whether you like it or not are still the window where growth in their play can be expected.
The blueline for the last 2 years have been the least experienced in the league and likely if not then in the running for it again. It's more than reasonable to expect to see improvement year over year. If you expect to see these kids to out of the league in a year then please clarify that position.


One of the youngest teams in the league with the youngest blueline. Situation will rectify itself.

That math relies on the assumption that MTL will not pull their goalie a single time next year, and that empty net goals do not exist. You are blaming every empty net goal that MTL allowed on Jake Allen

Montembault/Primeau had a GAA about 0.6 lower than allen.

Allen played 20 games (against a lot more playoff teams than primeau played against).

0.6x20=12 goals, and again, that implies Primeau, who went 0-6 letting in just under 5 goals a game vs playoff teams, will do better against those harder matchups, and that Montembault will do as well with less rest and a larger workload.

 

[dgibb10]

Nope.
"Success" is a subjective term. You seem to believe a 23 yr old forward in his 3rd pro season that can't get regular minutes is worth a lot more than the GM of your own team thinks. I don't share your idea of "success" either, if what we are talking about is the value of a player to a team with cup contention aspirations.

23 year old Hoglander getting 3rd/4th line minutes while playing in every game and doing quite well in those minutes: harrassment
23 year old xhekaj getting 7D minutes, spending a bunch of time in the AHL, and struggling in the minutes he does get: flirting

Ok .Basic math here.
Monty-2428min 127Ga
CP-1325 min 66GA
2428+1325=3753min
3753 divided by 60 =62.55games
127+66=193 goals against
Divide 193 by 62.55=3.08 GAA
Multiply 3.08x82=252.56 prorated
The Habs allowed 289 goals last year
289-252.55=36.45 goals
This alone would have placed them as a middling team in goals against
Don't care about what Hellebuyuck or Brossoit or Swayman or Ullmark did as Winnipeg as those teams are at a different part of their competitive window and don't know why they are even part of your discussion.
Both Monty and CP whether you like it or not are still the window where growth in their play can be expected.
The blueline for the last 2 years have been the least experienced in the league and likely if not then in the running for it again. It's more than reasonable to expect to see improvement year over year. If you expect to see these kids to out of the league in a year then please clarify that position.


One of the youngest teams in the league with the youngest blueline. Situation will rectify itself.

Your problem is the goals you attribute to Allen.

You are saying Allen is responsible for all non Primeau/Montembault goals (96 goals).

But Allen only let in 72 goals.

You have attributed 24 goals that Jake Allen did not let in as Jake Allen's fault.

 

[Wayfarer13]

That math relies on the assumption that MTL will not pull their goalie a single time next year, and that empty net goals do not exist. You are blaming every empty net goal that MTL allowed on Jake Allen

Montembault/Primeau had a GAA about 0.6 lower than allen.

Allen played 20 games (against a lot more playoff teams than primeau played against).

0.6x20=12 goals, and again, that implies Primeau, who went 0-6 letting in just under 5 goals a game vs playoff teams, will do better against those harder matchups, and that Montembault will do as well with less rest and a larger workload.

No.But it maybe an indicator of being on the right side of more 1 goal games

 

[dgibb10]

No.But it maybe an indicator of being on the right side of more 1 goal games

Again, MTL likely does not play in as many overtime games next year (there is very little correlation in amount of games that go to overtime on a year to year basis). Their record in 1 score games this year was also perfectly in line with their record in non 1 score games.

 

[Wayfarer13]

23 year old Hoglander getting 3rd/4th line minutes while playing in every game and doing quite well in those minutes: harrassment
23 year old xhekaj getting 7D minutes, spending a bunch of time in the AHL, and struggling in the minutes he does get: flirting


Your problem is the goals you attribute to Allen.

You are saying Allen is responsible for all non Primeau/Montembault goals (96 goals).

But Allen only let in 72 goals.

You have attributed 24 goals that Jake Allen did not let in as Jake Allen's fault.

He had to deal with 2 shoulder injuries dating back to junior. He was playing well when they shut him down.There was mo reason as with Canfield to play through it.
What is in error in my math?

 

[HabzSauce]

Nice proposal. I like the value for both teams but I wouldn't do it for Habs.

Xhekaj is too valuable for Habs right now for a team that needs more toughness, not less. Young, big, one of the toughest guys in the league and he has skill with a nice shot, and lots of room to grow still. Very unique player, no clue why some others seem to think he's a dime a dozen player that you can just scoop up in free agency.

Hoglander would be nice, but in this case it just doesn't make sense for habs. Hoglander is small, we need bigger guys upfront. Would be another 2nd/3rd liner which we have plenty of already.

If Habs really wanted Hog (or someone similar), Id rather see us trade their surplus of draft capital and B prospects. Don't want to part ways with these prospects at least until another year when we know more of what we have in them.

But if you want Anderson, we could maybe work something out

 

[Wayfarer13]

23 year old Hoglander getting 3rd/4th line minutes while playing in every game and doing quite well in those minutes: harrassment
23 year old xhekaj getting 7D minutes, spending a bunch of time in the AHL, and struggling in the minutes he does get: flirting


Your problem is the goals you attribute to Allen.

You are saying Allen is responsible for all non Primeau/Montembault goals (96 goals).

But Allen only let in 72 goals.

You have attributed 24 goals that Jake Allen did not let in as Jake Allen's fault.

Comparing the progression of a forward to a defenseman?

 

[Miller Time]

23 year old Hoglander getting 3rd/4th line minutes while playing in every game and doing quite well in those minutes: harrassment
23 year old xhekaj getting 7D minutes, spending a bunch of time in the AHL, and struggling in the minutes he does get: flirting

That you can't tell the difference (& need to embellish Hog's role), speaks volumes

 

[HabsAddict]

X will be paired with Mailioux.

The potential ceiling there makes both untouchable.

 

[dgibb10]

He had to deal with 2 shoulder injuries dating back to junior. He was playing well when they shut him down.There was mo reason as with Canfield to play through it.
What is in error in my math?

The error in your math is you took all goals Montembault let in, all goals Primeau let in, and then, instead of taking 10 seconds to look at jake allen's stats and realize he let in 74 goals, you simply used every other goal MTL allowed, which was 96.

So in that, you have attributed 24 extra goals against as jake allen's fault, despite him letting none of them in.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Imagine thinking Xhekaj is just a tough guy.

Its not that surprising as most fans don’t know the strengths and weaknesses of players on other teams as they know their own team’s players. They see other teams’ players periodically, watch high lights and parrot and assume the prevailing concensus.

I would suggest, that unless the deal is heavily in Montreal’s favour Hughes will be quite hesitant to trade any of his current young defencemen until he has better idea that his touted defensive prospects ( Mailloux, Engstrom, Hutson, Reinbacher, etc.) are ready to make the next step and be a contributing Player in the NHL.

As for Xhekaj, if he overcome his injury woes, I can’t see Hughes trading a young player who has shown surprising skill levels, provided a menacing / intimidating element to this overall passive team and has quickly become a team leader and fan favourite.