Post-Game Talk: Van Ryn's system and Jones hand another loss

[BallardEra]

Link?

I'd like someone to paraphrase this, or give some context. Must be more to it.

I'd paraphrase it to, "That's what a good coached team looks like. That isn't us."

Maple Leafs' many issues exposed in intense loss to Canucks

The weaknesses of the Maple Leafs were on full display in a Saturday night thriller against Canada's top-ranked team. And so were their strengths. The problem is, right now, it's clear they have more of the former than the latter.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Trapper]

Of course not.
However the shots do indicate the Leafs didn't quit.
Leafs gave away the game by their defensive play.
Some of those goals against are definitely on Jones.

And yeah, Nylander's top corner from inside the blueline ... what a shot and how did Demko not see it? There was a screen, but probably never thought a Leafs player would shoot to score without a couple fancy plays and passes. Maybe thought it was marner and was looking to see where Matthews was? ( just a joke before any chaste knights rush to protect marner)

Hard for me to praise a team for coming back that consistently doesn’t start on time and puts themselves in the hole.
10 years of construction and right now take Matthews away and this team is bad. I don’t care about Marner or Nylander. They’d be on a bad team without Matthews.
Take Bergeron/Krejci/Chara away from Boston and well, it’s a good team.
This is what Shanahan has overseen.

 

[Stephen]

Marner might have to go too.if u wanna sign McDavid lol


Keefe got handed the keys to a rogue group that was never gonna listen to anyone

I don’t think they’re all that rogue at all though. Think the core guys tend to be neutral positive, even keeled players but that’s been the organizational messaging this whole time. Think those good vibes only is part of the in-house culture.

 

[Gallagbi]

Being outshot 46 to 21 hardly qualifies as being "ready to go"

They controlled the first period even if they didn't deserve to put up a 3 spot. We were chasing, slow and confused. This team can't handle pushes, they have no defensive composure

 

[Stephen]

Of course not.
However the shots do indicate the Leafs didn't quit.
Leafs gave away the game by their defensive play.
Some of those goals against are definitely on Jones.

It's hard to credit a team for overcoming the adversity they create for themselves though. If they had come out in the first the way they did in the second but sagged, the whole thing would be framed differently. They also came out like crap vs Calgary and followed the same comeback script.

But we also hammer them for fading vs Edmonton and blowing multiple leads to the Isles, Avs and Wings. A lot of this is on Jones, he's come crashing back to earth. But you'd think they'd adjust to protect him too.

So they might just be a non playoff team that finds ways to lose at this point.

 

[ULF_55]

Being outshot 46 to 21 hardly qualifies as being "ready to go"

Except the Canucks played their start to a 3 goal lead.

They were "ready to go".

They just didn't have an opponent ready to go at the same time.

Perhaps the Canucks weren't ready for a team to wake up after a late alarm?

 

[-DeMo-]

Pretty ridiculous that we paid a 1st and a 2nd for a 3rd pairing D.

just out of curiosity why did you leave out the other part of that trade? Lafferty would be 5th in goals and 6th in points on our team with his production on Vancouver. but we decided to keep Reaves instead pretty ridiculous.

 

[The Shrike]

Leafs were down 3-0 early and the shots were 7-1 for the Canucks.

So, a .571 save percentage on those 7 shots is on the skaters or the coach?

When will people get it, the Leafs woes for several years now is a direct result of poor goaltending, either overall, or in playoff elimination games.

That doesn't absolve everyone of blame though, management (past and present) has known this, and have failed to address the issue. That's definately on them.

 

[BallardEra]

So, a .571 save percentage on those 7 shots is on the skaters or the coach?

When will people get it, the Leafs woes for several years now is a direct result of poor goaltending, either overall, or in playoff elimination games.

That doesn't absolve everyone of blame though, management (past and present) has known this, and have failed to address the issue. That's definately on them.

Either way you need to move on from Keefe and see what you have in the team under a new coach/system.

 

[Mess]

Usually I like to make a trip to Vancouver to see the Leafs in person when they come out West, and my brother had the opportunity to get us great tickets for my birthday to boot, but I decided not to brave the winter elements only to face another loss.

 

[Gallagbi]

That doesn't change the fact that those two players have been awful when they were projected to be difference makers.

Tavares is a massive issue at this point.

Nobody should have expected either to be difference makers. Tavares has been slowing as has Brodie, both can contribute, but we needed to insulate and support this summer. We went the opposite route, removing defensive for Brodie and removing C options for Tavares.

 

[ULF_55]

Bertuzzi has gotten a lot of time with Tavares and Nylander, but I think UFA’s might look at this situation like Keefe is going to put me in the dog house plus these guys aren’t doing anything for me stats wise.

Leafs seem to be running a lot of guys into the ground with their play style. It’s all slightly different circumstances but how did Muzzin, Brodie, Holl, Gardiner and Giordano all go from various states of importance to physically and broken down during their Toronto stint?

Perhaps Bertuzzi and Tavares are a good fit at this point in their careers? I get the feeling Nylander would be a better fit on a speed line, and that isn't the former.

Gardiner was never great defensively, but he broke down. He couldn't fulfill half his contract after he signed with Carolina.

Muzzin physically played a tough game broke down.
Brodie has several issues outside hockey that might be zapping his energy, and he isn't young.
Giordano, amazing he's able to play at his age. Maybe on a pair with an experienced, better partner he'd look better, or less minutes, or perhaps playing in front of a starter.

 

[Bomber0104]

Nobody should have expected either to be difference makers. Tavares has been slowing as has Brodie, both can contribute, but we needed to insulate and support this summer. We went the opposite route, removing defensive for Brodie and removing C options for Tavares.

Nobody should expect our $11M centre (also our captain) to be a difference maker.

Got it.

And just what 2nd line “C options” were available exactly for Tavares to shift over to the wing?

 

[The Shrike]

Either way you need to move on from Keefe and see what you have in the team under a new coach/system.

If the goaltending situation remains the same it doesn't matter who the coach is, or what system they deploy. People talk about Berube, but when Binnington wasn't playing lights out, how good was he (or his system} then?

 

[Stephen]

Nobody should expect our $11M centre (also our captain) to be a difference maker.

Got it.

And just what 2nd line “C options” were available exactly for Tavares to shift over to the wing?

Expecting Tavares to be a difference maker is a futile exercise though no matter how much you pound the table. I've lowered my expectations to can you get a normal 5 on 5 shift out of him where he's operating at the pace of everyone else, make cohesive plays and smart decisions throughout the 200 feet of ice? The answer to that seems to be no. So we have a problem.

Shifting Tavares to wing only makes sense if you had managed to lure ROR back, thus having a suitable veteran C carry Tavares' workload, speak for him in the media and supply all the leadership personality Tavares doesn't exhibit but deep down we know is all there.

 

[BallardEra]

If the goaltending situation remains the same it doesn't matter who the coach is, or what system they deploy. People talk about Berube, but when Binnington wasn't playing lights out, how good was he (or his system} then?

Every coach gets tuned out including Berube. Keefe has reached his date of expiry as well.

Put in Boucher and ride out the year.

 

[666]

Usually I like to make a trip to Vancouver to see the Leafs in person when they come out West, and my brother had the opportunity to get us great tickets for my birthday to boot, but I decided not to brave the winter elements only to face another loss.

That's sad. I feel very sorry for you. Perhaps being a sports fan isn't for you.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dude the Pens board is that way. This team would have sucked the same ass it does today if idiot Shanny followed through and extended Dubas.

I don't care where the Pens board is. The person I replied to brought them up.
I care about the fact that the Leafs are worse because Shanahan made a kneejerk bad decision last offseason.

 

[ULF_55]

Hard for me to praise a team for coming back that consistently doesn’t start on time and puts themselves in the hole.
10 years of construction and right now take Matthews away and this team is bad. I don’t care about Marner or Nylander. They’d be on a bad team without Matthews.
Take Bergeron/Krejci/Chara away from Boston and well, it’s a good team.
This is what Shanahan has overseen.

Why would you magically just remove a team's best player though?
That would have them with $11mm unused Cap Space.
Remove Pastrnak from the Bruins ... that would leave them with $11mm in Cap Space to be equal. He's third in scoring and third in goals.

Remove any teams' best player and there would be an impact.

 

[Mess]

That doesn't change the fact that those two players have been awful when they were projected to be difference makers.

Tavares is a massive issue at this point.

John Tavares has Zero points in last 7 games with a boat anchor $11 mil cap hit hanging around the Leafs neck.

Trevling walked away from Brodie and Grandpa Giordano years ago when Flames GM and now he inherited them back. Luckily this is the last years of their deals and both are gone next year.

Samsonov and Murray in net completely useless.

Going to take our new GM Teliving a few years to get out from under this debacle that he inherited from the past clueless GM.

 

[LeafSadist]

View attachment 807516

John Tavares has Zero points in last 7 games with a boat anchor $11 mil cap hit hanging around the Leafs neck.

Trevling walked away from Brodie and Grandpa Giordano years ago when Flames GM and now he inherited them back. Luckily this is the last years of their deals and both are gone next year.

Samsonov and Murray in net completely useless.

Going to take our new GM Teliving a few years to get out from under this debacle that he inherited from the past clueless GM.

Play the kids.

 

[Cleetus]

Very true, but that doesn't necessarily mean he should keep his job.

but judging by the thread title Mike Van Ryn is the only problem, Keefe is the greatest because Dubas hired him! we should under no circumstances Fire Keefe

 

[ULF_55]

Pretty ridiculous that we paid a 1st and a 2nd for a 3rd pairing D.

The Toronto Maple Leafs have acquired defenceman Jake McCabe, forward Sam Lafferty, a conditional fifth-round pick in 2024, and a conditional fifth-round pick in 2025 from the Chicago Blackhawks, the team announced Monday.

The Leafs are sending the Blackhawks a conditional 2025 first-round pick, a 2026 second-round pick, and forwards Joey Anderson and Pavel Gogolev.

And retention.

And a 5th. round pick from Vancouver for Lafferty.

Grebenkin is a 5th. round pick. ;-)

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Play the kids.

Where's Jeremy Williams when you need him

 

[The Shrike]

Hard for me to praise a team for coming back that consistently doesn’t start on time and puts themselves in the hole.
10 years of construction and right now take Matthews away and this team is bad. I don’t care about Marner or Nylander. They’d be on a bad team without Matthews.
Take Bergeron/Krejci/Chara away from Boston and well, it’s a good team.
This is what Shanahan has overseen.

Swayman .923