Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[blankall]

So now Kuz is a better player than Lindholm, wow......wow.

Who's out to lunch here again?

That was clearly a mistake. You can really tell which posters are actually reading the entire posts through.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

That was clearly a mistake. You can really tell which posters are actually reading the entire posts through.

My bad man, deleting the post.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Love how people keep bringing this up all while ignoring the fact that the Pens wanted Hoglander and we would never have given him up.

Would have been easier to get the Pens off of Hoglander if the Canucks didn’t piss away their 1st this year on the Lindholm trade.

Hindsight is 20/20 but with what the Pens ultimately got from the Hurricanes, I am sure 99% of Canucks fans would have rather went the Guentzel route than Lindholm presently.

 

[Zilo44]

The flames Sean Monahaned the Canucks

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

My bad man, deleting the post.

Nucklehead. So sensitive!

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Would have been easier to get the Pens off of Hoglander if the Canucks didn’t piss away their 1st this year on the Lindholm trade.

Hindsight is 20/20 but with what the Pens ultimately got from the Hurricanes, I am sure 99% of Canucks fans would have rather went the Guentzel route than Lindholm presently.

No bud it wouldn't have, again they wanted a player like Hoglander, instead they got Bunting.

We couldn't have gotten him without giving up a player like Hoglander, we wouldn't have done that.

A low 1st in this years draft wouldn't have changed that.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

No bud it wouldn't have, again they wanted a player like Hoglander, instead they got Bunting.

We couldn't have gotten him without giving up a player like Hoglander, we wouldn't have done that.

A low 1st in this years draft wouldn't have changed that.

So is it Hoglander or a player “like” Hoglander?

The goal posts are moving already.

The Pens didn’t even get back a true first in the trade and the only way it becomes a 1st is if the Hurricanes make the Stanley cup.

Why even bring up the low 1st when the Hurricanes first has equal chances of being just as low as the Canucks? So the Pens ultimately received a very low second.

If you don’t think the Canucks having their 1st in the negotiation would have played a major part in getting Guentzel…

All I can do is chuckle to myself and move on.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Nucklehead. So sensitive!

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

So is it Hoglander or a player “like” Hoglander?

The goal posts are moving already.

The Pens didn’t even get back a true first in the trade and the only way it becomes a 1st is if the Hurricanes make the Stanley cup.

Why even bring up the low 1st when the Hurricanes first has equal chances of being just as low as the Canucks? So the Pens ultimately received a very low second.

If you don’t think the Canucks having their 1st in the negotiation would have played a major part in getting Guentzel…

All I can do is chuckle to myself and move on.

A player of Hoglanders ilk, they specifically wanted Hoglander, either way we weren't willing to give that up, no goals post changing just facts.

You brought up the 1st, I just pointed out it's lack of significance.

Look up all the talk about the trade, they wanted a player more than a pick, they still have Crosby, Malkin, Karlsson, Letang etc. and still want to try and win.

I chuckle at how clueless you seem to be at this, maybe try doing some research instead of basing all you opinions on general assumptions, it really helps.

 

[Rowlet]

Would have been easier to get the Pens off of Hoglander if the Canucks didn’t piss away their 1st this year on the Lindholm trade.

Hindsight is 20/20 but with what the Pens ultimately got from the Hurricanes, I am sure 99% of Canucks fans would have rather went the Guentzel route than Lindholm presently.

A 1st in June doesn't help the Canucks this year when the playoffs are in April and May.

Hoglander has 20 ESG this year, at a rate among the highest in the league per60. A late first may never score 20 goals in his career, and definitely won't help when the Canucks are contending the next few years.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

A 1st in June doesn't help the Canucks this year when the playoffs are in April and May.

Hoglander has 20 ESG this year, at a rate among the highest in the league per60. A late first may never score 20 goals in his career, and definitely won't help when the Canucks are contending the next few years.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

A player of Hoglanders ilk, they specifically wanted Hoglander, either way we weren't willing to give that up, no goals post changing just facts.

You brought up the 1st, I just pointed out it's lack of significance.

Look up all the talk about the trade, they wanted a player more than a pick, they still have Crosby, Malkin, Karlsson, Letang etc. and still want to try and win.

I chuckle at how clueless you seem to be at this, maybe try doing some research instead of basing all you opinions on general assumptions, it really helps.

The only sources you have that they 100% wanted Hoglander are people that said that here.

You are acting as if no other trade could have happened without Hoglander in it. It’s comical and just a small brain thought.

A 1st in June doesn't help the Canucks this year when the playoffs are in April and May.

Hoglander has 20 ESG this year, at a rate among the highest in the league per60. A late first may never score 20 goals in his career, and definitely won't help when the Canucks are contending the next few years.

What? I was saying they could have used their first for more bargaining power to acquire Guentzel. Not keep it.

 

[gianni]

Just like Jim Rutherford said, it was likely that Andrei Kuzmenko would bounce back offensively where he could play his style, but it wasn't gonna be on the Canucks.

It was obvious that Kuzmenko couldn't, or wouldn't adjust to Rick Tocchet's system; he was literally the only player on the roster that didn't. Also, the team's internal expectation, and him being a non-factor/liability on a 1st place team (for most of the season) likely made him feel overwhelmed/inadequate: I actually felt bad for him.

Anyway, the jury is still out on the trade (for the Canucks) until Elias Lindholm plays his last game this season, and depending what management does w/ that 5.5m in cap space this summer.

 

[DFF]

If you blame all of Lindholm’s problems on injuries, you will be in for a big surprise

Dude has not produced since Gaudreau and Tkachuk left 2 yrs ago. Pretty sure he hasn’t been injured that whole time. He is mediocre, propped up by his line mates. The injury just made it little worse but that’s not the main reason.

 

[Szechwan]

Just like Jim Rutherford said, it was likely that Andrei Kuzmenko would bounce back offensively where he could play his style, but it wasn't gonna be on the Canucks.

It was obvious that Kuzmenko couldn't, or wouldn't adjust to Rick Tocchet's system; he was literally the only player on the roster that didn't. Also, the team's internal expectation, and him being a non-factor/liability on a 1st place team (for most of the season) likely made him feel overwhelmed/inadequate: I actually felt bad for him.

Anyway, the jury is still out on the trade (for the Canucks) until Elias Lindholm plays his last game this season, and depending what management does w/ that 5.5m in cap space this summer.

The real key was the reaction of the players, who all liked him.

None of them gave any indication they thought the trade was unfair or ill-advised. In fact, multiple players said he could use a reset and hoped a different situation would work out for him.



Fact is, the Canuck's entire ethos is built around defensive responsibility and hard forechecking, it's the reason why they are a top 5 defensive team since Christmas. You can't give a player a pass on that unless MAYBE he's true star, or everyone else on the team starts questioning the system and it crumbles. But Kuz wasn't putting the puck in the net at any point of the season with enough regularity to justify getting a pass on playing the system. He was a net negative because he wouldn't forecheck and was clueless in his own end.

 

[SensontheRush]

Kuzmenko is a better player than Lindholm and I'm tired of people pretending otherwise.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

The only sources you have that they 100% wanted Hoglander are people that said that here.

You are acting as if no other trade could have happened without Hoglander in it. It’s comical and just a small brain thought.


What? I was saying they could have used their first for more bargaining power to acquire Guentzel. Not keep it.

Actually it was reported by the media multiple times, research is your friend, it also helps you come off as less clueless, just a tip.

I said Hoglander, or player of his ilk, pay attention man.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Actually it was reported by the media multiple times, research is your friend, it also helps you come off as less clueless, just a tip.

I said Hoglander, or player of his ilk, pay attention man.

And none of those sources have any idea what is happening behind the scenes.

If you can’t put together that the Canucks didn’t have a first rounder so the Penguins would have to aim for better prospects or Hoglander, then I simply can’t help your ineptness.

Not trading for Lindholm and having the 1st, Kuzmenko and a solid group of prospects gets you Guentzel. Which was the original point. Their trade for Lindholm looks awful in hindsight.

 

[CF84]

Anyone trying to argue that Lindholm has been the better player since the trade has happened is obviously wrong. However, Lindholm is the better player when taking his entire career into account and he needs to at least partially become that player again during the playoffs for the Canucks to not regret this trade. I've watched Lindholm all season and Kuzmenko has easily been the better player since the trade. In the meantime, Lindholm has regressed even further on the Canucks while likely battling some health issues.

Do the Flames win the trade if there was no such thing as playoffs? Yes.
But guess what! The Canucks are going to the playoffs and he could be the difference maker that Kuzmenko was never going to be on a Canucks team.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

And none of those sources have any idea what is happening behind the scenes.

If you can’t put together that the Canucks didn’t have a first rounder so the Penguins would have to aim for better prospects or Hoglander, then I simply can’t help your ineptness.

Not trading for Lindholm and having the 1st, Kuzmenko and a solid group of prospects gets you Guentzel. Which was the original point. Their trade for Lindholm looks awful in hindsight.

Ahh so now its the sources, before it was only of HF, lol it was widely reported which means it's within the realm of possibility that it's exactly what happened, of course none of us know, but speculation from people in the know is better to go off of than someones opinion on HF. If you can't understand that I don't know what to tell ya bud.

The Pens wanted an actual player that could help them win now, this was widely speculated, and given what happened makes complete sense,, like, your literally arguing your opinion as fact here over what was said all along in the media, we offered a 1st next year (which is supposed to be a much deeper draft) and they said no, they weren't enamoured with draft picks, they wanted guys that we couldn't afford to give up like Hog, Lekk, and WIllander, having a 1st wouldn't have changed that.

I can't possibly make that more clear for you, unless reading comprehension is beyond you.

You can't possibly know that, my god, the level of delusion.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Ahh so now its the sources, before it was only of HF, lol it was widely reported which means it's within the realm of possibility that it's exactly what happened, of course none of us know, but speculation from people in the know is better to go off of than someones opinion on HF. If you can't understand that I don't know what to tell ya bud.

The Pens wanted an actual player that could help them win now, this was widely speculated, and given what happened makes complete sense,, like, your literally arguing your opinion as fact here over what was said all along in the media, we offered a 1st next year (which is supposed to be a much deeper draft) and they said no, they weren't enamoured with draft picks, they wanted guys that we couldn't afford to give up like Hog, Lekk, and WIllander, having a 1st wouldn't have changed that.

I can't possibly make that more clear for you, unless reading comprehension is beyond you.

You can't possibly know that, my god, the level of delusion.

Man you are simply wrong here. Take the L and move on.

 

[Haatley]

Yes, he has, maybe watch him play for us?

I have. And his defensive stats are very close to what I have seen. Not good.

 

[Double Dion]

Kuzmenko is a better player than Lindholm and I'm tired of people pretending otherwise.

Flames fan here. This is...oof. Bad. Kuzmenko has been giving goaltenders sunburns since he got to Calgary. He's been scoring at an unbelievable rate. Despite a PDO that is off the charts high and huge goal and point totals he's -10 in 26 games here with heavy Ozone deployment.

At his worst Lindholm is a better player when it comes to winning hockey games than Kuzmenko is at his best.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Lindholm should have signed that flames offer on the table. He left all that money on the table.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

View attachment 850990

lol. what do you call it when you think someone thinks Kuz is better than Lindholm and you lose your mind? Seems like someone’s a little sensitive….

No need to get worked up about a 3C. He’s not even top 6. Won’t be a big factor in the Canucks playoffs.

Ahh so now its the sources, before it was only of HF, lol it was widely reported which means it's within the realm of possibility that it's exactly what happened, of course none of us know, but speculation from people in the know is better to go off of than someones opinion on HF. If you can't understand that I don't know what to tell ya bud.

The Pens wanted an actual player that could help them win now, this was widely speculated, and given what happened makes complete sense,, like, your literally arguing your opinion as fact here over what was said all along in the media, we offered a 1st next year (which is supposed to be a much deeper draft) and they said no, they weren't enamoured with draft picks, they wanted guys that we couldn't afford to give up like Hog, Lekk, and WIllander, having a 1st wouldn't have changed that.

I can't possibly make that more clear for you, unless reading comprehension is beyond you.

You can't possibly know that, my god, the level of delusion.

Epic meltdown is epic.