Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[Haatley]

Anytime 2 Canadian team make a trade of this nature it will be 100+ pages when it's all said and done.
Lindholm was brought in for the playoffs, and probably wasn't healthy at any point when he was playing with the Canucks, so tough to judge. With that said, at this stage most would probably rather have paid that price for Guenzel.

He was brought in for the playoffs, eh? You know he has never been a great playoff performer... right?

 

[Rowlet]

He was brought in for the playoffs, eh? You know he has never been a great playoff performer... right?

He was brought in to be a defensive center, not an offensive one. By taking all the d zone faceoffs, it lets Miller and Pettersson start in the o zone every shift.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

It's a pretty standard rental trade.

With a well below average return so far.

 

[Rowlet]

With a well below average return so far.

Yeah, that tends to happen when the main piece is injured for over a month.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

He was brought in to be a defensive center, not an offensive one. By taking all the d zone faceoffs, it lets Miller and Pettersson start in the o zone every shift.

Haha. This is revisionist history.

He was attractive because he was a good 2 way centre. Good offensively and defensively.

A defensive centre with no offensive expectations doesn’t get that return as a rental.

So far - the Canucks have flushed those assets down the toilet, while losing top spot in the west.

Like others have said - let’s see how he produces in the playoffs. That’s clearly the real measuring stick. But so far? Buzz - your girlfriend, woof.

Fair enough, though it tells you that he isn't willing to put in the time an earn a spot, hence why we traded him as he would likely be in the same spot here.



Right now, the playoffs are why we got the guy, so shouldn't the playoffs be where we judge the trade?



Ohhh man if you don't like criticism of young prospects maybe HF is not the site for you.

Agreed. Playoffs are the real measuring stick. A final appearance, or a cup with Elias being a big part of that run will obviously prove out the trade.

Right now though? Bad trade.

Both points can be true at this point in time. Things change though!

Yeah, that tends to happen when the main piece is injured for over a month.

Yup. At his age - injuries are a big part of the risk.

The injury doesn’t negate the terrible return so far. It reinforces it.

 

[Rowlet]

Haha. This is revisionist history.

He was attractive because he was a good 2 way centre. Good offensively and defensively.

A defensive centre with. It offensive expectations doesn’t get that return as a rental.

So far - the Canucks have flushed those assets down the toilet, while losing top spot in the west.

Like others have said - let’s see how he produces in the playoffs. That’s clearly the real measuring stick. But so far? Buzz - your girlfriend, woof.

Of course he was brought in because he can do both, but he's playing shut down C, being able to do both gives the team more options if needed, but he was absolutely playing shut down C when he got injured.

Of course the Canucks have fallen in the standings, their top 5 in the league goalie has been injured for a month, but in that time they've been among the best defensive teams in the league.

As for the assets, it's been said many times that the assets they spent weren't that important to the team.

I don't consider injuries to be that important in this discussion, you can say that about any player or trade, and your implication that he got injured because he's 29 when he got slashed in the wrist is incredibly silly. It's like saying Kevin Bieksa was injury prone because he got stepped on by a skate twice.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Of course he was brought in because he can do both, but he's playing shut down C, being able to do both gives the team more options if needed, but he was absolutely playing shut down C when he got injured.

Of course the Canucks have fallen in the standings, their top 5 in the league goalie has been injured for a month, but in that time they've been among the best defensive teams in the league.

As for the assets, it's been said many times that the assets they spent weren't that important to the team.

He was playing shut down C cause he wasn’t producing offensively and got moved down. No one was happy about that. To state otherwise is totally revisionist.

The dream at the time of trade was he would be a big part of the top 6. That didn’t pan out. At all.

Hopefully he bounces back from injury and finds a role in the top 6 as expected when they traded for him.

Being in a shut down role probably didn’t help his injury status either.

Anyways - glad to see Kumenko finding his offensive spark again. 19 pts in 24 games with the flames. Looking good. Hopefully he keeps it up, and the flames work on defensive aspects of the game next year after having it gutted.

If the Canucks have been amongst the best defensive teams with Lindholm injured maybe his role as shut down centre needs to be revisited on his return. Don’t want to shake up a good thing! Time to bring the O Elias!

 

[CascadiaPuck]

Way too much discussion about this trade and way too much “concern” about what the Canucks gave up. It’s fizzled so far on the Canucks end, but they took a swing with a late 1st, a player who was in the press box and was going to stay there, a meh prospect, and a prospect who could be an NHL contributor but has a long way to go to get there. They freed up cap space and we’ll see if the improved centre depth pays off in the postseason. (That added C depth also gave them some insurance if EP40 wasn’t going to sign.) I don’t think it was a great move but I’ve seen so many worse Canucks deals to be all that worried on this one.

 

[Quinning]

He doesn't like having to earn his opportunities

“I was going to Michigan [University], which is my favourite school,” Hunter said. “It was really hard for me to leave, but obviously I wanted to play a lot more hockey and play more minutes and I needed to do what I needed to do to get to the next level and that was to come to Kitchener.”

Definitely not shy about his ambitions is he?

 

[DJJones]

Way too much discussion about this trade and way too much “concern” about what the Canucks gave up. It’s fizzled so far on the Canucks end, but they took a swing with a late 1st, a player who was in the press box and was going to stay there, a meh prospect, and a prospect who could be an NHL contributor but has a long way to go to get there. They freed up cap space and we’ll see if the improved centre depth pays off in the postseason. (That added C depth also gave them some insurance if EP40 wasn’t going to sign.) I don’t think it was a great move but I’ve seen so many worse Canucks deals to be all that worried on this one.

That's pretty much every trade. You are trading futures for help now. At the time of the trade it appeared okay. Problem being Kuzmenko and Hunter were undervalued by Vancouver and Lindholm was overvalued. Two months later with Lindholm and Kuzmenkos respective performances and a signed Hunter and it looks a lot different.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Way too much discussion about this trade and way too much “concern” about what the Canucks gave up. It’s fizzled so far on the Canucks end, but they took a swing with a late 1st, a player who was in the press box and was going to stay there, a meh prospect, and a prospect who could be an NHL contributor but has a long way to go to get there. They freed up cap space and we’ll see if the improved centre depth pays off in the postseason. (That added C depth also gave them some insurance if EP40 wasn’t going to sign.) I don’t think it was a great move but I’ve seen so many worse Canucks deals to be all that worried on this one.

No concern on my end.

Just calling a bad trade a bad trade - as it stands so far.

Canucks haven’t really gotten anything in return from Lindholm. They got some cap space for next year. Doesn’t really help them now.

Hoping to see Lindholm preform in the playoffs!

 

[Connor McConnor]

Of course he was brought in because he can do both, but he's playing shut down C, being able to do both gives the team more options if needed, but he was absolutely playing shut down C when he got injured.

Of course the Canucks have fallen in the standings, their top 5 in the league goalie has been injured for a month, but in that time they've been among the best defensive teams in the league.

As for the assets, it's been said many times that the assets they spent weren't that important to the team.

I don't consider injuries to be that important in this discussion, you can say that about any player or trade, and your implication that he got injured because he's 29 when he got slashed in the wrist is incredibly silly. It's like saying Kevin Bieksa was injury prone because he got stepped on by a skate twice.

Lindholm doesn’t shut anyone down they almost blew like a 20 pt division lead to a team that was bottom 10 for 1/4 of the season

 

[Rowlet]

Lindholm doesn’t shut anyone down they almost blew like a 20 pt division lead to a team that was bottom 10 for 1/4 of the season

Lindholm and Demko have been injured for a month. Do you need a reminder of how badly the Oilers played when McDavid was playing through an injury?

 

[Connor McConnor]

Lindholm and Demko have been injured for a month. Do you need a reminder of how badly the Oilers played when McDavid was playing through an injury?

I’m just saying dont call Lindholm a shutdown C, he’s never been that and gets worse in the playoffs.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I’m just saying dont call Lindholm a shutdown C, he’s never been that and gets worse in the playoffs.

Maybe he's a shutdown center because he plays better defense than Kuzmenko? In Vancouver it's enough to call a player defensive paragon.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Way too much discussion about this trade and way too much “concern” about what the Canucks gave up. It’s fizzled so far on the Canucks end, but they took a swing with a late 1st, a player who was in the press box and was going to stay there, a meh prospect, and a prospect who could be an NHL contributor but has a long way to go to get there. They freed up cap space and we’ll see if the improved centre depth pays off in the postseason. (That added C depth also gave them some insurance if EP40 wasn’t going to sign.) I don’t think it was a great move but I’ve seen so many worse Canucks deals to be all that worried on this one.

Exactly. That 1st rounder will probably be somewhere around 25th which will most likely net you a 3rd liner or so a few years down the road. It's not a big deal really. Sure you might take a Pastrnak with that pick and everyone will point out how the Canucks gave up a franchise altering pick but that's just not fair judgement. The Canucks are having a great year and chose to go for it and I think that's perfectly fine. For now it looks like they whiffed on it but that's how it plays out for most TDL buyers.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I hope CGY fans are hockey educated enough to see whats happening.

Kuzmenko is a great player for a rebuild team with no structure and playing in loose games. However, he struggles when the game is tight vs teams playing playoff style hockey. Just take a look at his last 15 games.

He has 0 goals vs Edmonton, jets, LA, Van, Car, Florida, Tbay, LA,

Meanwhile he is feasting in loose games vs Ducks and Sharks.

Great for him!! got him 6+mil a year!

This is the same player though that was healthy scratch when cgy was still in it this year and multiple times with Van.

Calgary isnt competing for the next handful of years though so its a good player to target, i doubt they will be able to flip him next trade deadline though becuase no playoff team or playoff coach will be able to ice him in the playoffs with how he currently plays or has played over the last 2 seasons in the nhl.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

I hope CGY fans are hockey educated enough to see whats happening.

Kuzmenko is a great player for a rebuild team with no structure and playing in loose games. However, he struggles when the game is tight vs teams playing playoff style hockey. Just take a look at his last 15 games.

He has 0 goals vs Edmonton, jets, LA, Van, Car, Florida, Tbay, LA,

Meanwhile he is feasting in loose games vs Ducks and Sharks.

Great for him!! got him 6+mil a year!

This is the same player though that was healthy scratch when cgy was still in it this year and multiple times with Van.

Calgary isnt competing for the next handful of years though so its a good player to target, i doubt they will be able to flip him next trade deadline though becuase no playoff team or playoff coach will be able to ice him in the playoffs with how he currently plays or has played over the last 2 seasons in the nhl.

With all your hockey education can you explain why Lindholm has been so terrible?

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Exactly. That 1st rounder will probably be somewhere around 25th which will most likely net you a 3rd liner or so a few years down the road. It's not a big deal really. Sure you might take a Pastrnak with that pick and everyone will point out how the Canucks gave up a franchise altering pick but that's just not fair judgement. The Canucks are having a great year and chose to go for it and I think that's perfectly fine. For now it looks like they whiffed on it but that's how it plays out for most TDL buyers.

Absolutely spot on. A late first rounder has about a 50/50 shot of being an nhl regular, regardless of if it’s first or fourth line. Funny once an actual player is drafted they become untouchable in deadline trades as opposed to the pick.

Anyways - a late first is still a playoff teams best shot at drafting a roster player. It has value.

In a full rental deal like Lindholm for Kuz, hunter a first and the other prospect all the value will be determined in playoff performance. Otherwise, late first or not, assets were wasted and goals weren’t achieved.

West is so tough this year. Will be an exciting first round!

 

[Oilslick941611]

Lindholm and Demko have been injured for a month. Do you need a reminder of how badly the Oilers played when McDavid was playing through an injury?

He's been playing injured all season. He isn't shooting the puck and can't beat anyone one 1 on 1. He's still leading with his play though as good players tend to do. He's also hurt again.

 

[UrbanImpact]

With all your hockey education can you explain why Lindholm has been so terrible?

Every player handles trades differently so i couldnt tell you. I also havent thought Lindholm has been terrible. More offence has been needed in the games he has played for sure but i was really impressed with his 2 way game including faceoffs and penalty kill ( both are very much needed by the Canucks)

Its also much harder to go from a loose system (Flames) to a rigid, staples, X's andO's Tochett system with the Canucks. Cant freestyle loosely.

If his offence comes in the playoffs while he provides that excellent 2 way ability then this is a great trade for the Canucks especially since they were able to walk away from the extra year in Kuzmenko's contract next year.

 

[DFF]

Yeah, that tends to happen when the main piece is injured for over a month.

Must be injured for 2 yrs now but go ahead and make more excuses

It’s also much harder to go from a loose system (Flames) to a rigid, staples, X's andO's Tochett system with the Canucks. Cant freestyle loosely.

If his offence comes in the playoffs while he provides that excellent 2 way ability then this is a great trade for the Canucks especially since they were able to walk away from the extra year in Kuzmenko's contract next year.

Make sense if he was performing for the Flames , he wasn’t


Also Kuzmenko is earning his contract for the Flames

 

[TS Quint]

With Hronek and Willander on the right side, there really isn't. Like is research this hard?

So 2 open spots to compete for on the right side alone.

You would think after drafting Podzolkin and Juolevi recently Canucks fans would be just a little humble. But the Canucks are having their first good season in a long time so the fan arrogance is through the roof.

 

[Szechwan]

Flames fans when they see than Van fans aren't upset at the trade:

The fact that this thread is still going is hilarious.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Must be injured for 2 yrs now but go ahead and make more excuses


Make sense if he was performing for the Flames , he wasn’t


Also Kuzmenko is earning his contract for the Flames

If Flames fan are happy to be paying Kuzy 6+mil then congrats to them!

Canucks trying to win playoff games, not stat watching.

I look at the 1st round pick as the cost to get rid of Kuzy contract this year and next year. Thats the usual price for a cap dump..

Lindholm for Bruz is a gamble a playoff contender should take any day of the week even if it works out or not especially since Bruz is a gamble himself.

Getting rid of Kuzy's contract allows the Canucks to either re-sign Lindy or go after someone like Geuntzel in the summer.