Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[Rowlet]

This thread has been a pretty embarrassing look for both Calgary and Vancouver fan bases. Calgary fans pretending Lindholm is some bum and would/will be incapable of helping Vancouver in the playoffs, and Vancouver fans pretending Kuzmenko is just some zero calorie stat padder or that Brzustewicz is a dime a dozen prospect with character issues.

Vancouver got the top centre on the market, and he struggled finding his role and developing chemistry out of the gate. His injury was unfortunate, but your team caught lightning in a bottle this year and you added a potential difference maker to help capitalize on it, and shipped out nothing effecting your chances at accomplishing it.

Calgary got a 1st, a cap dump who happened to be a buy low candidate who fit their team needs pretty perfectly, and a prospect who looks to have taken a massive leap in his development this season. Kuzmenko could be retained if Calgary bounces back next year or flipped for further assets if not, and Brzustewicz looks like his brain alone makes him a good bet to be a top 4D and Valgary has a great record of developing D.

Vancouver tried upgrading their chances at the cup this year, Calgary helped the re-tool. Pretty run of the mill trade, and no Vancouver getting bounced in the 1st round wouldn’t make it a brutal loss for them. Vancouver looks like this again next year and you hope they try the same thing over again next year as well to keep raising their chances.

I think most Canucks fans are happy that Kuzmenko is doing well, many didn't want to see him go. Ultimately, the team was ready to move on from him and when he wasn't scoring, he wasn't a player that the coaching staff saw as needed in the lineup.

As for Brzustewicz, he's an extremely skilled defenseman, but none of that matters when he doesn't want to sign with the team, which makes him very expendable.

 

[Double Dion]

I think most Canucks fans are happy that Kuzmenko is doing well, many didn't want to see him go. Ultimately, the team was ready to move on from him and when he wasn't scoring, he wasn't a player that the coaching staff saw as needed in the lineup.

As for Brzustewicz, he's an extremely skilled defenseman, but none of that matters when he doesn't want to sign with the team, which makes him very expendable.

The Brzustewicz situation was similar to the Fox situation for us. Just for different reasons. Fox would only play with the Rags, so he was a small part of a larger deal. I'm way higher on Brzustewicz than most people. I think his offense won't translate fully (don't see him getting much more than 40 points ever), but I think his compete and relentlessness will eventually translate into more of a soft-shutdown role.

 

[Rowlet]

The Brzustewicz situation was similar to the Fox situation for us. Just for different reasons. Fox would only play with the Rags, so he was a small part of a larger deal. I'm way higher on Brzustewicz than most people. I think his offense won't translate fully (don't see him getting much more than 40 points ever), but I think his compete and relentlessness will eventually translate into more of a soft-shutdown role.

Yeah, Canucks were somewhat lucky that Brzustewicz just wanted to not be stuck behind a top 2 D in the league, and his extremely skilled PMD partner, also that Calgary had previously coveted him. The rumour at the time was that Calgary traded into the 3rd because he was still available but the Canucks took him only a few picks earlier.

Brzutewicz is a very intriguing prospect, he's definitely a swing for the fences type, but swing for the fences offensive PMD's are among the hardest prospects to project. Calgary does well with defensemen, so at worst they have a player there.

 

[ijuka]

For a rental of this calibre, Vancouver paid a good, but not exorbitant price. If Lindy helps them get to where they want to get to, a price well worth it.

This is not true. You can overpay even for beneficial pieces.

Do you pay 5000 dollars for a meal and go "well it tasted good, worth it!"? This is the same argument you're making.

 

[Peter Griffin]

This is not true. You can overpay even for beneficial pieces.

Do you pay 5000 dollars for a meal and go "well it tasted good, worth it!"? This is the same argument you're making.

Well they want to get to winning their first cup in franchise history, so yeah, if he helps get them there, it’s a price well worth it.

 

[Rowlet]

This is not true. You can overpay even for beneficial pieces.

Do you pay 5000 dollars for a meal and go "well it tasted good, worth it!"? This is the same argument you're making.

If you're starving to death you'll pay $5000 for a meal and be happy about it.

Only one team wins the cup in a given year, half a dozen teams will trade their 1st round pick and 5 of them will look stupid, but the one that wins the cup will look like a genius. If Lindholm takes all the tough faceoffs and defensive zone draws allowing Pettersson and Miller to have a 70% OZoneStart% on route to a cup win, nobody will care about the 1st or prospect.

Good teams mortgage the future to try and win while they have the opportunity.

 

[Yepthatsme]

This is not true. You can overpay even for beneficial pieces.

Do you pay 5000 dollars for a meal and go "well it tasted good, worth it!"? This is the same argument you're making.

This line of thinking is so weird. Vancouver paid a late 1st, cap dump, and a non-blue chip great prospect for a rental top 6C. Yes Lindholm struggled to find chemistry and Kuzmenko found a great fit in Calgary, but that doesn’t change the situation of the trade. This version of Kuzmenko doesn’t happen on the current Canucks team, and the original basis of the trade is still a fair deal.

It’s the same thing with people clowning Calgary for the Monahan trade. They used a 1st to offload an injured Monahan, then immediately used that space on Kadri. Montreal being mid rebuild didnt care about the cap or patiently waiting to see what Monahan could be once he put himself back together so they had the ability to boost his stock. Doesn’t change that Calgary got the big upgrade Kadri is over Monahan (and a massive one compared to what injured Monahan was) and paid the price for it. Calgary just had the unique opportunity to do the same for Kuzmenko.

 

[Double Dion]

This line of thinking is so weird. Vancouver paid a late 1st, cap dump, and a non-blue chip great prospect for a rental top 6C. Yes Lindholm struggled to find chemistry and Kuzmenko found a great fit in Calgary, but that doesn’t change the situation of the trade. This version of Kuzmenko doesn’t happen on the current Canucks team, and the original basis of the trade is still a fair deal.

It’s the same thing with people clowning Calgary for the Monahan trade. They used a 1st to offload an injured Monahan, then immediately used that space on Kadri. Montreal being mid rebuild didnt care about the cap or patiently waiting to see what Monahan could be once he put himself back together so they had the ability to boost his stock. Doesn’t change that Calgary got the big upgrade Kadri is over Monahan (and a massive one compared to what injured Monahan was) and paid the price for it. Calgary just had the unique opportunity to do the same for Kuzmenko.

This is a good post. Everything in the league is cyclical. Calgary is in the selling cycle right now. We had a legit case to go and get rentals in the 21/22 year. We paid an absurd price for Calle Jarnkrok. We paid too much for Toffoli. We gave an asset for Ryan Carpenter for some unknown reason.

In total we moved out 7 draft picks and a decent prospect for pieces that did nothing for us that season. It was still way less dumb than not trading Giordano when we were clearly not going to make the playoffs.

 

[TS Quint]

Brzustewics didn't want to sign in Vancouver because of lack of opportunity on the blueline. He went as far as saying publicly "it would be cool to be part of a trade". Wanting him on the blueline doesn't matter.

4 open spots and no opportunity? Maybe there is another more logical reason….

 

[Rowlet]

4 open spots and no opportunity? Maybe there is another more logical reason….

Yeah, he wanted to be gifted powerplay and ice time.

He did the same thing already, leaving the USNTDP, going to the CHL to not have to fight Luke Hutson, Seamus Casey, and Ryan Chelsea for ice time.

 

[TS Quint]

Yeah, he wanted to be gifted powerplay and ice time.

He did the same thing already, leaving the USNTDP, going to the CHL to not have to fight Luke Hutson, Seamus Casey, and Ryan Chelsea for ice time.

With that kind of compete level it sounds like a great player to dump off.

But that’s very different than there being no opportunity because that’s just not true.

 

[Quinning]

Let's not shit on the kid after he's gone. Brzuskewicz is a fantastic prospect and could bite us in the ass for years. It's unfortunate that he likely didn't want to sign here, but that is what it is.

Nevermind the fact that Kuzmenko has substantially outproduced Lindholm, the latter isn't even healthy enough to play, and the 1st rounder might be in the teens if the Canucks don't make it to the conference semifinals.

And on top of that, Calgary can now flip a revitalized Kuzmenko for an additional asset/package next season. They bent the Canucks over in this trade. The only way the Canucks come out even is if they make the conference/SCF and contend for the Cup.

 

[Rowlet]

Let's not shit on the kid after he's gone. Brzuskewicz is a fantastic prospect and could bite us in the ass for years. Nevermind the fact that Kuzmenko has substantially outproduced Lindholm, the latter isn't even healthy enough to play, and the 1st rounder might be in the teens if the Canucks don't make it to the conference semifinals.

And on top of that, Calgary can now flip a revitalized Kuzmenko for an additional asset/package next season. They bent the Canucks over in this trade. The only way the Canucks come out even is if they make the conference/SCF and contend for the Cup.

Picks are only based on playoff progress in the top 4. As of right now, the pick would be like 27th even if the Canucks lose in the 1st round.

 

[Quinning]

Picks are only based on playoff progress in the top 4. As of right now, the pick would be like 25th even if the Canucks lose in the 1st round.

Huh. That I didn't know. Is that a new thing?

I guess winning the division would come with an additional benefit.

 

[Rowlet]

Huh. That I didn't know. Is that a new thing?

I guess winning the division would come with an additional benefit.

Been that way since the lockout at least, as far as I remember. A lot of President's Trophy winners picked 26th in the late 2000s.

Edit: less upsets also means the pick will be later, if all the final four are ahead of the Canucks in the standings, they'll pick like 29th.

 

[Rowlet]

With that kind of compete level it sounds like a great player to dump off.

But that’s very different than there being no opportunity because that’s just not true.

While I generally agree with this, those were his words, or at least what media has reported, not mine.

 

[CraigsList]

Huh. That I didn't know. Is that a new thing?

I guess winning the division would come with an additional benefit.

It’s been that way forever.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

And friends of mine were wondering why I wasn't happy with Kuzmenko being included in this trade.

I hope Kuzmenko re-establishes himself as a huge scoring threat in Calgary, and we know Lindholm has bottomed out here. Losing the picks and prospects is one thing, but we slightly boosted defensive play at the cost of our PP dynamic and a great deal of offensive creativity. Eh, too bad.

He wasn't scoring on the PP anyways, nor was he scoring at 5 on 5, I think people are stuck in last year.

Oh well, people are right about one thing: he didn't have any future in Vancouver under Tocchet. So it basically was Tocchet or Kuzmenko and the choice was obvious.

Yep, it was, glad we made the right one.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

With that kind of compete level it sounds like a great player to dump off.

But that’s very different than there being no opportunity because that’s just not true.

With Hronek and Willander on the right side, there really isn't. Like is research this hard?

 

[Kshahdoo]

He wasn't scoring on the PP anyways, nor was he scoring at 5 on 5, I think people are stuck in last year.


Yep, it was, glad we made the right one.

That's still a big question mark.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

That's still a big question mark.

No it's not, he's about to win a Jack Adams, the team is gonna win the division after not even making the playoffs last year, and Kuzmenko still sucks at defense, can't play in a proper system, and is/was a capdump for us.


No question mark there at all.

 

[DJJones]

I call bullshit on him not willing to sign because of Hughes.

If he's ahead of Kylington in two years I'd be overjoyed but very surprised. Him thinking he'll be top pairing on any team in the near future is just ridiculous. He was just some random 3rd round pick before breaking out this year

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Picks are only based on playoff progress in the top 4. As of right now, the pick would be like 27th even if the Canucks lose in the 1st round.

That’s not true. There’s rules that the division winners pick immediately after the conference finalists, so depending how many division winners are conference the finalists, the division winners pick in the 25-28 range, but as high as 32.

 

[Rowlet]

That’s not true. There’s rules that the division winners pick immediately after the conference finalists, so depending how many division winners are conference the finalists, the division winners pick in the 25-28 range, but as high as 32.

Hence the "like 27th."

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I call bullshit on him not willing to sign because of Hughes.

If he's ahead of Kylington in two years I'd be overjoyed but very surprised. Him thinking he'll be top pairing on any team in the near future is just ridiculous. He was just some random 3rd round pick before breaking out this year

Call bullshit all you want it was all right here:

Canucks had concerns about signing Brzustewicz before trade: report | Offside (dailyhive.com)