Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[Nucklehead Supreme]

You know they can use all that assets to get help instead? Guentzel?

We couldn't have got Guentzel though, we didn't have the player to do it, would have had to give up Hoglander, like the Canes had to give up Bunting. So your point is moot.

So much copium.

What does the Canucks blue line look like in three years that they have no room for prospects? Hronek, Hughes and 4 parts of your fantasy.

Look it up, they thought they'd have trouble signing him and he thought he'd have trouble getting in the line up, copium or facts?

Yeah, and they aren't happy about their own team, but it's probably another topic...

That has nothing to do with Kuzmenko and his lack of play in his own end, yep.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Age isn't really important, it's about who's better now.

At best, Hronek and Sanderson is a toss up. Slightly favoring Hronek.

I like them both a lot, but Sanderson has the edge imo. His fancy stats are impeccable, and the Sens without him on the ice are a completely different team than with him on it.

The Athletic did a nice summary of it the other day. Behind a paywall though.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Just because you can't enjoy yourself doesn't mean we can't.

Do you think this trade will look good in retrospect?

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

Do you think this trade will look good in retrospect?

It depends how far the Canucks make it - if they get to round 2 or 3, of course it was.

These franchises aren’t all “Cup or bust” - a month or six weeks of playoff hockey creates tens of thousands of lifelong fans.

 

[Kshahdoo]

That has nothing to do with Kuzmenko and his lack of play in his own end, yep.

He does enough in attack, with him Calgary's PP all of a sudden looks better than Vancouver's.

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

He does enough in attack, with him Calgary's PP all of a sudden looks better than Vancouver's.

Kuz is on a heater with 9 points in his last 5 games, but if Calgary’s powerplay looks better than Vancouver’s that’s a rooster illusion.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

It depends how far the Canucks make it - if they get to round 2 or 3, of course it was.

These franchises aren’t all “Cup or bust” - a month or six weeks of playoff hockey creates tens of thousands of lifelong fans.

But it’s about the opportunity cost. It was just a huge price to pay for a rental in the midst of a career-worst season when there were other better targets. Agreed if they make round 3 it’s worth it though.

It’s just funny to see Canucks fans use one good regular season to justify paying premium assets for a rental. Recipe for disappointment

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

He does enough in attack, with him Calgary's PP all of a sudden looks better than Vancouver's.

Awesome, so happy for you guys, on a team where winning (right now) and defense (right now) don't matter he is producing offense. Neat.

But it’s about the opportunity cost. It was just a huge price to pay for a rental in the midst of a career-worst season when there were other better targets. Agreed if they make round 3 it’s worth it though.

It’s just funny to see Canucks fans use one good regular season to justify paying premium assets for a rental. Recipe for disappointment

It's funny how people keep referring to a trade with supposed "premium assets" when the best part of the deal is a low 1st that may end up becoming a 3rd liner.

Right now does it look like we lost the trade? Yes, I still don't see any premium assets given up though.

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

But it’s about the opportunity cost. It was just a huge price to pay for a rental in the midst of a career-worst season when there were other better targets. Agreed if they make round 3 it’s worth it though.

It’s just funny to see Canucks fans use one good regular season to justify paying premium assets for a rental. Recipe for disappointment

The rental market was hot. They got the best defensive centre on the market, and if they really need him as a fallback option for offence, he’s there.

They traded an OHL D who isn’t better than Quinn Hughes, a mid-late 1st in a draft that isn’t believed to be especially deep, and some filler.

(And a nearly PPG Russian forward who immediately became their most dangerous offensive player after Kadri).

But I wouldn’t be lamenting Kuzmenko’s loss if I’m Vancouver - I’d rather roll with Lindholm on #3C in the post season than having Kuzmenko playing some Erik Gustafsson role where he’s only on the ice for 7 minutes a night up a man.

 

[Rowlet]

Do you think this trade will look good in retrospect?

Not particularly good, but when the team is first in the league I'd prefer the team swing for the fences than standing pat even if HF posters think the team isn't ready to contend. Since the trade the Canucks have been one of the best defensive teams in the league.

Additionally, most of the assets were of negligible value to the Canucks. Jurmo wasn't going to be signed by the team, Kuzmenko wasn't seeing ice time, 28th overall pick at the time of the trade, and a prospect who publicly mused that he'd like to be traded.

These are not premium assets. Bruzc was maybe the teams 5th best prospect.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I think if Kuzmenko keeps scoring at 60-70 point pace next season Calgary won't have problems with trading him at TDL. And if it's 50% retained they will probably get a first rounder for him. And now tell me, who does win the trade?

Calgary won the trade but it’s still not necessarily a terrible trade for the Canucks. Kuzmenko was never going to put up those numbers in Tocchet’s system while playing bottom 6 mins/healthy scratched. Canucks save $6.5 mill in cap space next season which will help them bolster the rest of their roster. Hunter B apparently did not want to sign here and would not have had a great opportunity with Hughes (and to a lesser extent, Hronek and Willander). Lindholm has not panned out as hoped but at least we freed up cap space.

 

[lettuceAA]

Why would the Flames trade Kuzmenko? They need offence and he's awesome on the PP. Flames won't be going full torched earth rebuild. Flames are a good center and Dman away from being a playoff team again, especially if Zary, Sharaogovich, Cornato and Pelletier continue to develop.

 

[DFF]

Awesome, so happy for you guys, on a team where winning (right now) and defense (right now) don't matter he is producing offense. Neat.



It's funny how people keep referring to a trade with supposed "premium assets" when the best part of the deal is a low 1st that may end up becoming a 3rd liner.

Right now does it look like we lost the trade? Yes, I still don't see any premium assets given up though.

It’s not premium but it’s not nothing like you are making it sounds. The trade is fine if they can win a few rounds in the playoffs, otherwise it’s a bad gamble but it’s a gamble every team would have made. Treliving made the same gambles a short time ago

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

It’s not premium but it’s not nothing like you are making it sounds. The trade is fine if they can win a few rounds in the playoffs, otherwise it’s a bad gamble but it’s a gamble every team would have made. Treliving made the same gambles a short time ago

Right now, we lost the trade, if he doesn't come back, or if we lose in the first round, it looks worse, sure.

We still did not give up one premium asset though, even the low 1st in a crappy draft is not really a premium asset.

This has been my point all along, we didn't get taken to the cleaners, the flames didn't rip us off, we gambled on a trade and lost (at this time), and managed to not give up one premium asset to do so.

 

[Nanuuk]

For a rental of this calibre, Vancouver paid a good, but not exorbitant price. If Lindy helps them get to where they want to get to, a price well worth it.

 

[HitterD]

Right now, we lost the trade, if he doesn't come back, or if we lose in the first round, it looks worse, sure.

We still did not give up one premium asset though, even the low 1st in a crappy draft is not really a premium asset.

This has been my point all along, we didn't get taken to the cleaners, the flames didn't rip us off, we gambled on a trade and lost (at this time), and managed to not give up one premium asset to do so.

Honestly, from this Flames fan's perspective, I have to give the canucks some serious credit here. Is the trade looking great for the canucks at the moment? certainly not. It takes serious stones to make a trade like this in hopes of putting your team over the top. Are they all going to work out? Again.... no, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Far too many trade deadlines went by with a roster of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Lindholm, GIordano, Markstom ( i could go on, the Flames had a very good roster for a number of years), and Trevliving came away with a depth defenseman or two and nothing else. Wasnt willing to make a big enough deal to bolster the team enough (Toffoli was arguably a big deal, but still not enough).

Credit to the Canucks management for doing everything they could to try to capitalize on this team this season. It may not work out but as a fan i'm hoping when the time is right, the Flames management isnt afraid to swing for the fences.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

It's funny how people keep referring to a trade with supposed "premium assets" when the best part of the deal is a low 1st that may end up becoming a 3rd liner.

Right now does it look like we lost the trade? Yes, I still don't see any premium assets given up though.

The rental market was hot. They got the best defensive centre on the market, and if they really need him as a fallback option for offence, he’s there.

They traded an OHL D who isn’t better than Quinn Hughes, a mid-late 1st in a draft that isn’t believed to be especially deep, and some filler.

(And a nearly PPG Russian forward who immediately became their most dangerous offensive player after Kadri).

But I wouldn’t be lamenting Kuzmenko’s loss if I’m Vancouver - I’d rather roll with Lindholm on #3C in the post season than having Kuzmenko playing some Erik Gustafsson role where he’s only on the ice for 7 minutes a night up a man.

Not particularly good, but when the team is first in the league I'd prefer the team swing for the fences than standing pat even if HF posters think the team isn't ready to contend. Since the trade the Canucks have been one of the best defensive teams in the league.

Additionally, most of the assets were of negligible value to the Canucks. Jurmo wasn't going to be signed by the team, Kuzmenko wasn't seeing ice time, 28th overall pick at the time of the trade, and a prospect who publicly mused that he'd like to be traded.

These are not premium assets. Bruzc was maybe the teams 5th best prospect.

So all of your arguments are that a 1st+good RHD prospect+top-9 winger+4th (conditional 3rd) is not premium assets? I mean I guess if you’re defining ‘premium assets’ as what Vegas gave up in the Eichel trade, but as far as an un-extended rental goes, this was literally one of the biggest rental prices in recent years lol.

I love how you guys frame a late first as a ‘potential 3rd liner’ when these picks are usually a team’s most valuable trade chip and the most sought-after currency. And a young RHD prospect as ‘worse than Quinn Hughes’ or ‘at best our 5th best prospect’ when he’s a recent third who is trending very well at a premium position after a massive D+1 year. At worst his value is around a 2nd. 1st+2nd+roster player+4th+additional prospect for unsigned rental and the roster player is outscoring the rental by a decent margin?

I get it, you’re all trying to justify a meh trade because you’re excited your team went all in. I just think he was the wrong guy to target, because you could get cheaper options that are similarly effective or better scoring options at that big of a price. I also just saw the Flames make the same mistake after trading for Toffoli after one good regular season and it set us back in the future.

I’m not saying this trade is the worst ever, and if you guys have playoff success I’ll eat my words. I just think this was not the right use of your expendable but valuable assets

 

[Rowlet]

So all of your arguments are that a 1st+good RHD prospect+top-9 winger+4th (conditional 3rd) is not premium assets? I mean I guess if you’re defining ‘premium assets’ as what Vegas gave up in the Eichel trade, but as far as an un-extended rental goes, this was literally one of the biggest rental prices in recent years lol.

I love how you guys frame a late first as a ‘potential 3rd liner’ when these picks are usually a team’s most valuable trade chip and the most sought-after currency. And a young RHD prospect as ‘worse than Quinn Hughes’ or ‘at best our 5th best prospect’ when he’s a recent third who is trending very well at a premium position after a massive D+1 year. At worst his value is around a 2nd. 1st+2nd+roster player+4th+additional prospect for unsigned rental and the roster player is outscoring the rental by a decent margin?

I get it, you’re all trying to justify a meh trade because you’re excited your team went all in. I just think he was the wrong guy to target, because you could get cheaper options that are similarly effective or better scoring options at that big of a price. I also just saw the Flames make the same mistake after trading for Toffoli after one good regular season and it set us back in the future.

I’m not saying this trade is the worst ever, and if you guys have playoff success I’ll eat my words. I just think this was not the right use of your expendable but valuable assets

The Canucks didn't have the assets to get Guentzel, Pittsburgh wanted a roster player and the Canucks weren't prepared to give up Hoglander. Also, the Penguins weren't prepared to move Guentzel yet, as we saw they waited right until the deadline.

Aside from Guentzel there isn't many trades that I wish the Canucks had participated in other than Tanev, where the Flames preferred the prospect they got from Dallas to a pick.

You are seeing the amount of assets and thinking that means the Canucks paid a lot. The Canucks gave up an extremely late first and a prospect who didn't want to be here, everything else is basically irrelevant. Yes, I said that Brzuctewicz was maybe a top 5 prospect but it doesn't even matter because he didn't want to sign in Vancouver. Kuzmenko was sitting in the press box and the Canucks weren't going to sign Jurmo. That's basically what any trade would have cost, and after seeing what was out there I still feel Lindholm checked the most boxes. If you consider those to be premium assets, then sure, but the Canucks kept their blue chip prospects and young cost controlled roster players.

Even if the team doesn't do well in the playoffs I'm fine with this trade because management saw they had a chance and took a shot, it's better than sitting around with first round picks when the team is first in the league.

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

So all of your arguments are that a 1st+good RHD prospect+top-9 winger+4th (conditional 3rd) is not premium assets? I mean I guess if you’re defining ‘premium assets’ as what Vegas gave up in the Eichel trade, but as far as an un-extended rental goes, this was literally one of the biggest rental prices in recent years lol.

I love how you guys frame a late first as a ‘potential 3rd liner’ when these picks are usually a team’s most valuable trade chip and the most sought-after currency. And a young RHD prospect as ‘worse than Quinn Hughes’ or ‘at best our 5th best prospect’ when he’s a recent third who is trending very well at a premium position after a massive D+1 year. At worst his value is around a 2nd. 1st+2nd+roster player+4th+additional prospect for unsigned rental and the roster player is outscoring the rental by a decent margin?

I get it, you’re all trying to justify a meh trade because you’re excited your team went all in. I just think he was the wrong guy to target, because you could get cheaper options that are similarly effective or better scoring options at that big of a price. I also just saw the Flames make the same mistake after trading for Toffoli after one good regular season and it set us back in the future.

I’m not saying this trade is the worst ever, and if you guys have playoff success I’ll eat my words. I just think this was not the right use of your expendable but valuable assets

I’m not a Canucks fan, I’m a Flames fan.

Vancouver paid for the best defensive centre on the market, who can play the wing when you need more offense.

They paid a price they could afford to pay.

I’m happy with the return. I don’t think the Canucks should lament what they gave up.

 

[Rowlet]

Honestly, from this Flames fan's perspective, I have to give the canucks some serious credit here. Is the trade looking great for the canucks at the moment? certainly not. It takes serious stones to make a trade like this in hopes of putting your team over the top. Are they all going to work out? Again.... no, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Far too many trade deadlines went by with a roster of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Lindholm, GIordano, Markstom ( i could go on, the Flames had a very good roster for a number of years), and Trevliving came away with a depth defenseman or two and nothing else. Wasnt willing to make a big enough deal to bolster the team enough (Toffoli was arguably a big deal, but still not enough).

Credit to the Canucks management for doing everything they could to try to capitalize on this team this season. It may not work out but as a fan i'm hoping when the time is right, the Flames management isnt afraid to swing for the fences.

For me, this is 100% what it comes down to. I saw the Canucks ice two of the best rosters in the post salary cap era in 2011 and 2012, they won back to back presidents trophies, two Art Ross, one Hart, one Lindsay, one Selke, a Jack Adams, a season where Luongo was robbed of a Vezina, and yet they kept their first round pick in both years, and got two busts.

Why would that team not try and make a splash at the deadline? The goal is to win the cup, not to have your first round pick every year. Eventually the prospects you've picked have to take the next step and you can use futures to insulate them with more talent. From that point onward it was pretty clear how unimportant winning the draft was, especially because the Canucks had an extremely good chance to win it all in back to back years.

 

[DearDiary]

We couldn't have got Guentzel though, we didn't have the player to do it, would have had to give up Hoglander, like the Canes had to give up Bunting. So your point is moot.

Dubas wanted Kuzmenko+Lekkerimaki+1st

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

So all of your arguments are that a 1st+good RHD prospect+top-9 winger+4th (conditional 3rd) is not premium assets? I mean I guess if you’re defining ‘premium assets’ as what Vegas gave up in the Eichel trade, but as far as an un-extended rental goes, this was literally one of the biggest rental prices in recent years lol.

I love how you guys frame a late first as a ‘potential 3rd liner’ when these picks are usually a team’s most valuable trade chip and the most sought-after currency. And a young RHD prospect as ‘worse than Quinn Hughes’ or ‘at best our 5th best prospect’ when he’s a recent third who is trending very well at a premium position after a massive D+1 year. At worst his value is around a 2nd. 1st+2nd+roster player+4th+additional prospect for unsigned rental and the roster player is outscoring the rental by a decent margin?

I get it, you’re all trying to justify a meh trade because you’re excited your team went all in. I just think he was the wrong guy to target, because you could get cheaper options that are similarly effective or better scoring options at that big of a price. I also just saw the Flames make the same mistake after trading for Toffoli after one good regular season and it set us back in the future.

I’m not saying this trade is the worst ever, and if you guys have playoff success I’ll eat my words. I just think this was not the right use of your expendable but valuable assets

I mean all of this is true, if you ignore context, and their is plenty of context if you read through this thread.

Again no premium assets given up. Nothing we gave up hurt us, like at all.

Dubas wanted Kuzmenko+Lekkerimaki+1st

Yep and if that was actually what he wanted we would have been stupid to give up Lekk, which is why the trade didn't happen. They also wanted Hog, which would have been just as dumb to give up.

 

[Cogburn]

And friends of mine were wondering why I wasn't happy with Kuzmenko being included in this trade.

I hope Kuzmenko re-establishes himself as a huge scoring threat in Calgary, and we know Lindholm has bottomed out here. Losing the picks and prospects is one thing, but we slightly boosted defensive play at the cost of our PP dynamic and a great deal of offensive creativity. Eh, too bad.

 

[Kshahdoo]

And friends of mine were wondering why I wasn't happy with Kuzmenko being included in this trade.

I hope Kuzmenko re-establishes himself as a huge scoring threat in Calgary, and we know Lindholm has bottomed out here. Losing the picks and prospects is one thing, but we slightly boosted defensive play at the cost of our PP dynamic and a great deal of offensive creativity. Eh, too bad.

Oh well, people are right about one thing: he didn't have any future in Vancouver under Tocchet. So it basically was Tocchet or Kuzmenko and the choice was obvious.

 

[Yepthatsme]

This thread has been a pretty embarrassing look for both Calgary and Vancouver fan bases. Calgary fans pretending Lindholm is some bum and would/will be incapable of helping Vancouver in the playoffs, and Vancouver fans pretending Kuzmenko is just some zero calorie stat padder or that Brzustewicz is a dime a dozen prospect with character issues.

Vancouver got the top centre on the market, and he struggled finding his role and developing chemistry out of the gate. His injury was unfortunate, but your team caught lightning in a bottle this year and you added a potential difference maker to help capitalize on it, and shipped out nothing effecting your chances at accomplishing it.

Calgary got a 1st, a cap dump who happened to be a buy low candidate who fit their team needs pretty perfectly, and a prospect who looks to have taken a massive leap in his development this season. Kuzmenko could be retained if Calgary bounces back next year or flipped for further assets if not, and Brzustewicz looks like his brain alone makes him a good bet to be a top 4D and Valgary has a great record of developing D.

Vancouver tried upgrading their chances at the cup this year, Calgary helped the re-tool. Pretty run of the mill trade, and no Vancouver getting bounced in the 1st round wouldn’t make it a brutal loss for them. Vancouver looks like this again next year and you hope they try the same thing over again next year as well to keep raising their chances.