Raptors Discussion: v77| Season of Kawhi III: No Kawhi, no problem -or- the death & rebirth of Kyle Lowry

[Dr.Funk]

 

[The Nemesis]

Why would we trade Kyle Lowry for Worse, Lefty Kyle Lowry?

 

[inthe6ix]

Why would we trade Kyle Lowry for Worse, Lefty Kyle Lowry?

Read the previous page on this thread, there are a few explanations already mentioned.

Your guess is as good as anyones.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I hope Detroit expends some assets only to get in the playoffs and get drilled by us or Milwaukee.

 

[The Nemesis]

Sources: Rockets get Shumpert in 3-team deal

Reports out there that there's a 3-way deal between the Cavs, Rockets, and Kings

To Houston: Iman Shumpert (from Sac), Nik Stauskas, Wade Baldwin (both from Cle)

To Cleveland: Brandon Knight, Marquese Chriss, 2019 lottery-protected 1st (all from Hou)

To Sacramento: Alec Burks (from Cle)

Cavs are loading up on picks as they now have 2 1sts and 6 2nds in the next draft.

Stauskas and Baldwin were both just acquired by Cleveland from Portland earlier this week.

 

[Amadeus]

I think trading for Conley makes sense. He's signed long term at a premium position. We're not re-signing Lowry and his attitude towards the management is evidently negative based on interviews.

Best Raptor of all time in my books but getting up there in age and injury prone. I'll take my chances with Conley.

 

[Dr.Funk]

I think trading for Conley makes sense. He's signed long term at a premium position. We're not re-signing Lowry and his attitude towards the management is evidently negative based on interviews.

Best Raptor of all time in my books but getting up there in age and injury prone. I'll take my chances with Conley.

Conley's deal is only one year longer and he is also injury "prone".

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[trellaine201]

Question: what advantage do teams have buying out players? Seems like quite a few this year? Is this probably where the Raps will try adding.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Question: what advantage do teams have buying out players? Seems like quite a few this year? Is this probably where the Raps will try adding.

NBA Contract Buyout FAQ: Key dates, salary cap impacts and more - Sportsnet.ca

So…what is a buyout?

A contract buyout takes place when a team and player mutually agree to part ways. Most commonly — at least at this time of year — buyouts tend to occur when a veteran player finds himself without playing time, or on a lottery-bound team, and wants an opportunity to play for a contender. From the team’s perspective, orchestrating a buyout with a player in this scenario can open up a roster spot, create playing time for a young auditioning player or rid the team of an unhappy member without having to absorb a new player’s contract like if they had traded the veteran.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[The Nemesis]

I think trading for Conley makes sense. He's signed long term at a premium position. We're not re-signing Lowry and his attitude towards the management is evidently negative based on interviews.

Best Raptor of all time in my books but getting up there in age and injury prone. I'll take my chances with Conley.

Total games played over the last 5 full seasons (13/14 thru 17/18) by:

Lowry - 364
Conley - 280

Stat line over that time (per game)

Lowry - 19 pts, 6.9 ast, 4.9 reb, 1.5 stl in an average of 35.4 min per game
Conley - 17.3 pts, 5.9 ast, 3.1 reb, 1.3 stl in an average of 32.5 min per game


Total WinShares over that time (WS/48min in parens)

Lowry - 50.7 (.189)
Conley - 30.9 (.163)

Age and contract

Lowry is just about 33 and his contract expires after 19/20
Conley is currently a little over 31 and his contract expires in 20/21 presuming he plays 2 more games this season to trigger the last year of the contract

So.....
Notably less durable
slightly worse scorer
marginally worse facilitator
worse rebounder
slightly worse steals artist
playing more or less the same amount of time in a given game
has contributed less to his team's success over the last 5 years on volume
contributes less to his team's sucess on average
Is only like a year and a half younger
Contract runs just 1 year longer
Earns only about $2m less over this season and next, then picks up a 20/21 salary greater than anything Lowry ever took home


Yeah... Still not seeing it.

 

[Kurtz]

Total games played over the last 5 full seasons (13/14 thru 17/18) by:

Lowry - 364
Conley - 280

Stat line over that time (per game)

Lowry - 19 pts, 6.9 ast, 4.9 reb, 1.5 stl in an average of 35.4 min per game
Conley - 17.3 pts, 5.9 ast, 3.1 reb, 1.3 stl in an average of 32.5 min per game


Total WinShares over that time (WS/48min in parens)

Lowry - 50.7 (.189)
Conley - 30.9 (.163)

Age and contract

Lowry is just about 33 and his contract expires after 19/20
Conley is currently a little over 31 and his contract expires in 20/21 presuming he plays 2 more games this season to trigger the last year of the contract

So.....
Notably less durable
slightly worse scorer
marginally worse facilitator
worse rebounder
slightly worse steals artist
playing more or less the same amount of time in a given game
has contributed less to his team's success over the last 5 years on volume
contributes less to his team's sucess on average
Is only like a year and a half younger
Contract runs just 1 year longer
Earns only about $2m less over this season and next, then picks up a 20/21 salary greater than anything Lowry ever took home


Yeah... Still not seeing it.

Good summary.

The only argument the other way is that as of this day, Conley is healthy and Lowry is not.

 

[The Nemesis]

Good summary.

The only argument the other way is that as of this day, Conley is healthy and Lowry is not.

True. But:

Conley this season:

33.8 MPG, 20.4 PPG, 6.4 APG, 3.4 RPG, 1.4 SPG, shooting .469 from 2P, .365 from 3P, and .846 from FT

Lowry this season:

34.3 MPG, 14.2 PPG, 9.2 APG, 4.4 RPG, 1.4 SPG, shooting .529 from 2P, .326 from 3P, and .841 from FT

At absolute worst, crippled Lowry is a wash for what Conley's done this year. At best he's still a much better facilitator and a better rebounder even accepting that his stats are being dragged down by his injury issues. It's also likely that his wonky back is the cause of his 3P woes, as he's sitting about 4% worse than his career norm and I can easily see pain or loss of strength in his back sapping the energy transfer needed for a smooth, accurate, consistent shot from deep.

I will still gladly take Lowry and his potential health risks over Conley now, and even more in the future when Conley's 20/21 guarantee kicks in and now he's owed $34m more salary in that final year.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[The Promised Land]

I'm kind of a more casual Raps fan, so for those who follow the team and league more closely, I ask you: Is this team a legitimate contender with the roster as it stands now?

 

[GoodNewfieBoy]

I'm kind of a more casual Raps fan, so for those who follow the team and league more closely, I ask you: Is this team a legitimate contender with the roster as it stands now?

Hard to say. If Lowry plays up to his full potential, yes. If not, probably not.

They also haven’t really had their full roster together for any length of time, it’s been less than five games total.

They need help with three pointers so I was hoping they would do something. They do have more depth than a lot of teams but depth is less of a factor in the playoffs.

They are in the top four/five teams in the east for sure but they aren’t clear favorites.

 

[topched]

I'm kind of a more casual Raps fan, so for those who follow the team and league more closely, I ask you: Is this team a legitimate contender with the roster as it stands now?

Yes - legit contender. Even if no moves are made today.

That said, this team is in the same spot it’s been for the last 3-5 years where they have a chance to go to the Finals but they will likely have to go through someone who is considered the favourite.

My hope is Masai can make a substantial move today to change that. But if he doesn’t, this team is still very very good.

 

[mapleleafs34]

Barring no significant moves today, what would our starting lineup be come playoff time?
Lowry/Green/Kawhi/Siakam/JV?

That's pretty solid if you ask me

 

[The Promised Land]

Hard to say. If Lowry plays up to his full potential, yes. If not, probably not.

They also haven’t really had their full roster together for any length of time, it’s been less than five games total.

They need help with three pointers so I was hoping they would do something. They do have more depth than a lot of teams but depth is less of a factor in the playoffs.

They are in the top four/five teams in the east for sure but they aren’t clear favorites.

Thanks for the perspective, and from what I read it doesn't seem likely that they're going to do anything major today.

 

[stickty111]

Shots fired

 

[BlueForever75]

Barring no significant moves today, what would our starting lineup be come playoff time?
Lowry/Green/Kawhi/Siakam/JV?

That's pretty solid if you ask me

I would say it would be Lowry/Green/Kawhi/Siakam/Ibaka with JV off the bench as it was previously and working. JV will get spot starting duty depending on C starting for opposition.

Still solid.

 

[Tuggy]

JV back tonight official.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Shots fired

Lmao Savage.

 

[stickty111]