Management UPDATE: Steve Staios GM and POHO, Dave Poulin Senior VP of Hockey Operations

[coladin]

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I wish we could wish good riddance to angry screamers that start off posts with LMFAO. That would be awesome.

Let's keep this thread about the current management and leave the Dorion/DJ/Melnyk shit out of it. That would be great.

But that is their only argument !

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Vegas hired McPhee to be their first GM, a guy with a lot of experience as a GM and in other executive roles in the NHL.

Seattle hired Francis to be their first GM, a guy with experience as a GM and a lot of other executive roles.

Before Brisebois was named GM of Tampa, he had been with Montreal for over 6 years in different executive roles including Director of Hockey Ops, VP of Hockey Ops and GM of the AHL team. He joined Tampa as an AGM and managed their farm team, hired Jon Cooper and worked as an AGM for 8 years before he got the big job.

Jim Nill was a Director of Player Development for 4 years and an AGM in Detroit for 15 years before he left to be the GM of Dallas.

Yzerman was VP of Hockey Ops for 4 years and was the GM of Team Canada for the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver before he became a GM in Tampa.

It doesn't need to be a name, it needs to be someone with executive experience at the NHL level. Darche and Tulsky have executive experience in roles that are heavily involved in front office affairs, not just vague special assistant titles.

Darche and Tulsky have similar experience and career progression to Ryan Bowness, who appears to be the GM in waiting here. They're the same type of candidate.

Certainly, Jim Nill was much more experienced when he moved to Dallas, but that was a different time. You had guys like him who were essentially lifers with one organization, and a dynasty at that. Who fits that profile today?

And when Vegas hired McPhee, he was considered an out-of-touch dinosaur on this board. The guy who couldn't win with Ovechkin. It's worked out in hindsight, but it'd be akin to Ottawa hiring Chiarelli or Shero now. People would freak.

Staios is similar to Francis when he was originally hired in Carolina. At the time, he had 3 years of front-office experience in the NHL and was hired because of his relationship with their former owner. Then Dundon came in and booted him, despite him putting together a pretty promising young team.

Sakic was the same. He was handed the car keys in Colorado after just two years as an "advisor".

But the main point is that none of these hires were considered "best in class" at the time. They were all risks that carried many unknowns (except for McPhee who had a track record, albeit one that people ripped on).

You're looking at it in hindsight.

You also seem to be hung up on Dave Poulin, but most teams have a few guys with vague "special assistant" titles in their front-office. Toronto has Shane Doan and Hayley Wickenheiser as assistants to Treliving. Doing what, exactly? Probably the same stuff Poulin will do here. Be a sounding board. I bet after his stint on the bench, Alfie gets some sort of "VP" title as well.

 

[coladin]

And in this thread you praised Dorion and said his trades 'were mixed'.... He built this team... But now you want to blame Staios who took over in pre season..... The math isn't adding up for you.

Pick and choose what you like , Bert. I said the pro trades were mixed but I like the long term deals even though they suck ass right now. I am allowed to be frustrated with this season being over in December. Experts all said this was a playoff team (even though I didn’t think so). That is the team Dorion built I guess

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Pick and choose what you like , Bert. I said the pro trades were mixed but I like the long term deals even though they suck ass right now. I am allowed to be frustrated with this season being over in December. Experts all said this was a playoff team (even though I didn’t think so). That is the team Dorion built I guess

After 6 years of rebuilding, you didn't think this team was a playoff team, yet you're frustrated that we're not a playoff team, and the person you're mad at is not the guy who put together the team over the last 6 years, but the guy who's been here for 3 months and had nothing to do with the construction of the roster that you didn't think was very good to begin with?

 

[coladin]

After 6 years of rebuilding, you didn't think this team was a playoff team, yet you're frustrated that we're not a playoff team, and the person you're mad at is not the guy who put together the team over the last 6 years, but the guy who's been here for 3 months and had nothing to do with the construction of the roster that you didn't think was very good to begin with?

This thread is about Poulin and Martin being hired from TSN radio spots. I didn’t think it was a playoff team, but sure as f*** didn’t think it was a lottery team. Of course I don’t blame the new owner and POHO for that. POHO was too slow in firing DJ, and POHO hired himself as GM and Martin from TSN1200.

Please don’t put words in my mouth. I felt this was a 90 point team, and that is pretty good. I wasn’t sure about a 95-96 pt. Team

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

This thread is about Poulin and Martin being hired from TSN radio spots. I didn’t think it was a playoff team, but sure as f*** didn’t think it was a lottery team. Of course I don’t blame the new owner and POHO for that. POHO was too slow in firing DJ, and POHO hired himself as GM and Martin from TSN1200.

Please don’t put words in my mouth. I felt this was a 90 point team, and that is pretty good. I wasn’t sure about a 95-96 pt. Team

Jacques Martin has over 600 wins as an NHL head coach, a Stanley Cup ring and is known to have strengths in the same areas that this team needs the most improvement. I believe he's coached more NHL games than any other head coach currently working in the league.

But he's radio guy and was hired because of his spot on TSN 1200?

That's quite a stretch.

Rick Tocchet did TV work for Turner before being hired by Vancouver. Guess they just hired some guy from the media too. And Jim Rutherford, the guy who hired him, was doing TSN Tradecenter before being named President of the Canucks. Bad hires all around!

I'll agree that both DJ and Dorion should have been fired on day 1, and a lot of players should be shipped out asap. It'll take a few years to fix what their incompetence built.

 

[coladin]

Jacques Martin has over 600 wins as an NHL head coach, a Stanley Cup ring and is known to have strengths in the same areas that this team needs the most improvement. I believe he's coached more NHL games than any other head coach currently working in the league.

But he's radio guy and was hired because of his spot on TSN 1200?

That's quite a stretch.

Rick Tocchet did TV work for Turner before being hired by Vancouver. Guess they just hired some guy from the media too.

Martin hasn’t been a head coach in 10 years. Tocchet is much more relevant , plus was a tough goal scorer.

I think Martin is out of touch with this group. Too old

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Martin hasn’t been a head coach in 10 years. Tocchet is much more relevant , plus was a tough goal scorer.

I think Martin is out of touch with this group. Too old

He's an interim coach brought in so DJ couldn't do even more damage. Nobody thinks he's the long-term fix. He's the epoxy you put on the leaking pipe before the plumber gets there. It'll only hold for so long, but it's better than nothing.

As I said, it'll take a few years to fix this mess. Staios and Bowness will need to overhaul this roster. I'm ready to give them a fresh slate. Move whoever they want.

I don't really get your takes. Staios and Poulin may end up being shitty hires, but we'll need time to figure that out. They don't have anything to do with the disaster that is this roster. It seems like you're saying that if we didn't hire Staios, we'd be better? Somehow?

A couple months ago you were preaching patience with both the former GM and coach, and now you're outraged at two guys who haven't done anything yet.

 

[coladin]

He's an interim coach brought in so DJ couldn't do even more damage. Nobody thinks he's the long-term fix. He's the epoxy you put on the leaking pipe before the plumber gets there. It'll only hold for so long, but it's better than nothing.

As I said, it'll take a few years to fix this mess. Staios and Bowness will need to overhaul this roster. I'm ready to give them a fresh slate. Move whoever they want.

I don't really get your takes. Staios and Poulin may end up being shitty hires, but we'll need time to figure that out. They don't have anything to do with the disaster that is this roster. It seems like you're saying that if we didn't hire Staios, we'd be better? Somehow?

My takes are pretty clear: for the umpteenth time I don’t like the hires. That’s it. You guys want to bring everything else up. I didn’t blame anyone for the roster . They just got here.

And the interim coach is not being respected, clearly. He is not the epoxy. He is the f***ing supply teacher being pelted with paper balls and paper airplanes

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

And the interim coach is not being respected, clearly. He is not the epoxy. He is the f***ing supply teacher being pelted with paper balls and paper airplanes

And he'll be able to give our new GM an honest assessment of who's throwing the paper balls and airplanes and needs to be shipped out by the draft.

Hopefully, when the long-term coach comes in the summer, they won't have to deal with the spoiled frat boys who aren't into winning. We'll have cut that cancer out of the room. They can start fresh.

We'll see how things shake out with Staios, but I'll afford him some patience. I'm glad, at least, that he's not trying to fool fans into thinking this roster is "close". That encourages me.

I'm looking at this as a new rebuild. Not as the final stages of the former rebuild requiring some minor tinkering to get us over the hump.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Pick and choose what you like , Bert. I said the pro trades were mixed but I like the long term deals even though they suck ass right now. I am allowed to be frustrated with this season being over in December. Experts all said this was a playoff team (even though I didn’t think so). That is the team Dorion built I guess

I feel you. I really thought we had a playoff team. Honestly I wish DJ was fired sooner. He should have went when Dorion went.

And he'll be able to give our new GM an honest assessment of who's throwing the paper balls and airplanes and needs to be shipped out by the draft.

Hopefully, when the long-term coach comes in the summer, they won't have to deal with the spoiled frat boys who aren't into winning. We'll have cut that cancer out of the room. They can start fresh.

We'll see how things shake out with Staios, but I'll afford him some patience. I'm glad, at least, that he's not trying to fool fans into thinking this roster is "close". That encourages me.

I'm looking at this as a new rebuild. Not as the final stages of the former rebuild requiring some minor tinkering to get us over the hump.

The thing about Staios is that he was a work horse as a player. He and Alfie are the same breed of player, getting everything through hard work. He's going to expect a lot from the players on this team and so will Alfie. This is why I think Staios will be a good GM and I'm glad that Alfie is around.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Martin hasn’t been a head coach in 10 years. Tocchet is much more relevant , plus was a tough goal scorer.

I think Martin is out of touch with this group. Too old

The one thing Martin will do is find out where the problem is. It gives our management team an opportunity to deal with the problem.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Pick one.

a) FYOUS
b) Stability
c) Best in Class

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Pick one.

a) FYOUS
b) Stability
c) Best in Class

Five years of best in stability!!

 

[h2]

Pick one.

a) FYOUS
b) Stability
c) Best in Class

d) we're a team

 

[h2]

I still think we're missing some key components to our core.

1) Beef on our backend, and jettison Hamonic/Brannstrom/JBD.
2) Quality bottom six forwards (bonus if physical), players like kastelic and kelly should not be playing every game. Keep one as a 13th forward.
3) Two-way top 6 center that can shadow and shutdown elite talent
4) a good goaltender lol
5) Elite goal scorer, some will say Norris is this, but I think he's very one dimensional, very easy to shutdown as well.

 

[Boud]

I really liked Jacques presser after this game.

- Need to play 60 minutes, obviously.
- It's not only 1-2 guys, everyone is not giving enough effort.
- It's on the players to give effort all game and every game.
- When a 36 year old is your best player, some guys need to look at themselves in the mirror.

Pretty straight forward.

I've been saying this team is not giving effort since the 10th game (ish) of the season but we kept hearing from DJ and management that they can't fault the effort. With this roster, if players gave full effort every game we would be in a much better position, this is not really debatable.

Playing 20-30 minutes a game is not giving full effort. About time someone f***ing said it.

 

[Senovision]

Staios and his team are going to have to be careful to make the right moves says Obvious Guy. Six years of this rebuild can't be compounded by another 4 years of a second rebuild. Ottawa's fanbase as we all know will not accept, put up with, or attend games where the product on the ice is another rebuild.
They need to make 3 to 4 key moves. Obviously easier said than done, but this is the unenviable task they face.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Darche and Tulsky have similar experience and career progression to Ryan Bowness, who appears to be the GM in waiting here. They're the same type of candidate.

Certainly, Jim Nill was much more experienced when he moved to Dallas, but that was a different time. You had guys like him who were essentially lifers with one organization, and a dynasty at that. Who fits that profile today?

And when Vegas hired McPhee, he was considered an out-of-touch dinosaur on this board. The guy who couldn't win with Ovechkin. It's worked out in hindsight, but it'd be akin to Ottawa hiring Chiarelli or Shero now. People would freak.

Staios is similar to Francis when he was originally hired in Carolina. At the time, he had 3 years of front-office experience in the NHL and was hired because of his relationship with their former owner. Then Dundon came in and booted him, despite him putting together a pretty promising young team.

Sakic was the same. He was handed the car keys in Colorado after just two years as an "advisor".

But the main point is that none of these hires were considered "best in class" at the time. They were all risks that carried many unknowns (except for McPhee who had a track record, albeit one that people ripped on).

You're looking at it in hindsight.

You also seem to be hung up on Dave Poulin, but most teams have a few guys with vague "special assistant" titles in their front-office. Toronto has Shane Doan and Hayley Wickenheiser as assistants to Treliving. Doing what, exactly? Probably the same stuff Poulin will do here. Be a sounding board. I bet after his stint on the bench, Alfie gets some sort of "VP" title as well.

Ok? But this is about Staios, the guy who is currently GM and POHO despite no relevant experience at the NHL level for either role. Yes, Bowness is on the correct track to get to the GM seat, like the names I outlined. But he's not currently the GM and who exactly is mentoring him into the role? A guy with zero experience doing the job at the NHL level?

You can nitpick the other names all you want but they actually had tangible executive experience before they got those jobs. Not just vague titles, either. That's the point I'm making. You can say all you want about hindsight and whatever else. Sure, no one knows whether someone with experience will do the job well or not but I sure as hell know that when someone talks about "best in class" practices that it doesn't entail guys with no relevant experience in the role getting handed the keys.

Anyway, I'm not gonna keep going at this. It's gradually changing into an argument that I'm not making in the first place so let's just move on.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

With half a season left, you don't remove the interim tag and promote the assistant GM to associate GM unless you're gonna be there for the long haul. What's the logic of then hiring someone in the offseason who will be forced to keep Bowness on as associate because you promoted him?

This is the front office group for the long term. And that's what I'm basing my judgement off of because this is most certainly NOT best in class.

I guess that's fair. I just don't see Staios particularly staying in the role long term, but we will see.

And I don't blame anyone for skepticism. I just don't think anyone should be going over the deep end yet. Nor comparing it to the toxic owner of yesteryear whose effect is still being cleansed. Everyone has to get their reputation somewhere and imo the important part is these are not Melnyk hires, these are people hired by the new group and Andlauer. And for the first time in a long time, collaboration is being parroted as a priority. I'm willing to wait and see. The only significant issue I've seen so far was waiting too long to fire DJ, but as we're seeing, the team just isn't very competitive in its current form.

Best in class will come from the results of what they do, or don't. I get wanting experience, but I'm happy enough to have the decisions on who is involved being made by new people for now.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yes, I agree with that. It's too early to make judgements. This is still pretty much the team Dorion built.

I suppose waiting until Thanksgiving next year might be appropriate. Maybe by then we will have had enough time and info to evaluate.

Even after next summer I'd be more comfortable with it. Really, anything that's from their doing. So far, they've been left with a completely capped out team falling flat on its face.

In hindsight, they should have moved on from DJ and Dorion immediately, but it still seems like they didn't have a lot of external options at that time of year, so what can you do. This place flew off the handle at the idea of Charelli and I don't blame them. Just not great options mid year.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Fair enough. I appreciate your measured response, which is sorely lacking around here. I guess everyone has their breaking point and I guess returning back to 2017-2018 is getting to me. I have never left early, so often, from a Sens game since that season.

Fans have really stepped up and embraced this team again, and as I predicted back in the day, that this team had to survive a few lean years until Gen Z had money, and they are the fans who are really driving the bus now. Great to see.

I don't want to repeat myself as to why I don't like the hires, but I loved listening to Poulin, a great hockey guy. I do remember his last go around in Toronto, he got roasted for it and hasn't worked in ten years.

Martin is interim, as is Alfie. I can't help feeling that he may be right for this moment, but is completely unrelatable to his players. The guy is 71. I don't like Tim and Brady's body language and their play has not improved whatsoever.

Love Alfie, but I dread him being behind the bench, and I dread that he becomes a fulltime coach. He is not St. Louis. He is our legend, and I don't want him fired. If Staios keeps him on, it is basically the worst decision anyone could ask for. Alfie needs to be involved with this organization , and essentially safe from termination.

I am not a fan of Staios at the moment because I expected someone with experience at the helm, and I don't care about other franchises and what they do. This is as critical a juncture for the club as there ever has been. They have over $40M tied up in this core, and we can't have rookie mistakes, rookie decisions that royally f*** this up. I didn't want him to be GM, and if his intention all along was to be GM, his first major screw up was not p[ulling the trigger on DJ before or after Sweden.

I always have time for owners and such because I can relate to their point of view better than the players. I am a business owner. I didn't mind Dorion, and appreciated his long term deals. His trades have been mixed, for sure. But I always knew his hands were tied by Melnyk, whose hands were tied with meagre revenues. With Andlauer, he has different pressures, and I think he is the right owner for this team, full stop. But I am not happy with what I have seen up to now

I appreciate the measured response as well. I don't want to just scream and yell, we've done that enough here. I just thought maybe you were a little too riled for what we've seen so far, but I get it.

I think you raise some fair points, even if I don't agree with all of them, so I won't refute each one by one or anything. I do like Martin and Alfie because I'm under the assumption it's to get through this year and that's it and I think they help to calm the waters even as the losses still pile up. I want a coaching overhaul next summer as part of everything too. I appreciate them for what they were to us though for sure and obviously put their name above owners. I don't think we're that far off though, I'm just still in a wait and see what they do from here and despite feeling like DJ should have gone sooner, it is looking like the team isn't good enough anyways, so was it really there to be saved. Probably not. Similar to Dorion, I'm not a fan of rolling with people guaranteed to be fired, and think they should have just cut the cord on both, but again, I don't think it makes a difference for the results yet.

I'm definitely curious where they go from here either way and won't be so forgiving if I'm not liking the direction. It is looking like an overhaul is needed and Korpisalo is looking like a bad contract they got left with that complicates goaltending again.

 

[NyQuil]

It's not much of a surprise to me.

We knew when Andlauer's name emerged that Staios was "his guy" and here we are.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It's not much of a surprise to me.

We knew when Andlauer's name emerged that Staios was "his guy" and here we are.

No one should be surprised by this. Just the time it took perhaps. But I think these guys at the helm are very methodical.

One small concern I have is that adding Poulin, which I think is fine, to the mix brings in another like minded person to the decision making process. I think its good to have someone that can present views that are different in the mix to lead to broader considerations. and possibly better decisions..

I believe Hockey Ops has to expand to improve its pro and amateur talent evaluators. I also would not mind adding to the analytics aspect.
The hiring of a "Best in Class" Head of Scouting in both these areas sooner than later to me is pressing. Adding to the scouting staff in Europe is also a need. Dorion rushing to turn a corner has really impacted the last 2 drafts in a bad way. Losing an upcoming 1st is an additional penalty that hurts. His handling and firing of Trent Mann also hurts.

Who is going to run the draft in 2024? Staios? Bowness? We lost scouting, and what we have left is pretty thin,

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

From FYOUS to BIC

Best
In
Class