Speculation: Undrafted FA Thread (NCAA/CHL/Euro)

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417

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Why? Because I disagree with you? Because my main and only point was that when he was traded, I didn't think he got a fair shot? Because I think that in the world of professionnal sport, that a player might choose a different place based on recent situation that might not please him?

Yes WS...you MUST agree with everything I say lol

No, not at all...I expect better because I wouldn't expect you to think that a player with so little background would influence another players decision to sign with the Montreal Canadiens. Like, there are so many more compelling factors at play here. Jiri Sekac, despite the legend built around him on this board, has accomplished very little in his professional career.

Furthermore, the Habs have had great success with Euro Free Agents in the past and have typically never shied away from drafting Russians in their organizations (while some teams shy away). There are tons of factors which make this an attractive option for a guy like Panarin, and apparently, he agrees since the Habs WERE one of the teams he was considering.

You can't seriously believe that because things didn't work out with Jiri Sekac here... that Artem Panarin won't sign him because of it.

Yeah, and I'll return the favor back. It's not because you keep using the word "legend" that it makes your point being THE point. Unless that's the only way you think that you can be right, is by trying to put words in our mouths that were never there. NOBODY has treated Sekac like a legend. Nobody. Ever. At worst, we were dissapointing to see him treated. We thought he had better offense that the organization gave him credit for. And for some, they didn't like the trade. So enough with that legend invention of yours. I can get you 100 cases and more of the exact same thing, and yet, you never bash people about how this or that player was a legend. Most of us hated to see Ryan White go. Where's your comment about White, the legend? So yep....I'm ALSO expecting better from you. But hey, in a hockey board, where we comment on everything for every second, I guess we shouldn't have expectations on anyone.

Ryan White spent 8 years in the Montreal Candiens organization?? How can you compare that to a guy who spent 3 months and did very little??? Are you going to hold a vigil for Andreas Engqvist too??

Many of you HAVE built Jiri Sekac into something bigger than he is...i'm sorry if that comes off as arrogant from me, I wasn't necessarily referring to you. But it's a bit much, don't you think?

What does Streit has anything to do with Therrien? We obviously are not talking about the "experience in Montréal" but with this present management but mostly coach and what happened this year

So you're saying that the only thing a guy like Panarin would consider, is Jiri Sekac's experience with Therrien?

Yeah...seems plausible

And yet, NOBODY has ever stated that THIS SINGLE SITUATION would be the end of UFA for ever and would be the only situation a UFA would be looking at. I did say in my post you replied to that "the Sekac situation COULD be something to analyse for him". That it "could be tougher for while"....How are those words mean precedence over tons of other factors? When I also talked about how the most important thing is money? What else do the Habs have going on for them? As Sekac said....the installations? Fine. What else? Higher taxes? Colder weather? Winning team? Well maybe soon.....surely an upcoming and improving team....still with no history since 1993. When tons of UFA weren't even born when we won the Cup for the last time. I don't think Habs, unless we overpay, have a lot going for them. And I don't think it's by adding one more, as insignificant you think it is, that it could help.

Yet somehow...the MOntreal Canadiens were one of the teams he was seriously considering.

You're right, maybe what 'happened' with Sekac, tipped the scale in the Chicago Blackhawks favor..

We'll go with that

Streit and Diaz are defencemen and were brought in under a different management and coaching staff.

The Sekac signing is recent, and like I said before they were in very comparable situations(Same age, League, position, player type etc).

Once again, nobody is saying that it's the sole factor for why he chose Chicago over Montreal, but it certainly didn't help.

Yeah...i'm going to go with it played no factor whatsoever

Just more Habs fans who have a hate on for Therrien trying to make a story out of nothing.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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Yet somehow...the MOntreal Canadiens were one of the teams he was seriously considering.

You're right, maybe what 'happened' with Sekac, tipped the scale in the Chicago Blackhawks favor..

We'll go with that
Well... who wouldn't want to play for Chicago? They're the cup favourites and have been for a while. Only reason not to want to go there would be the fear of not cracking the lineup.

As for him not choosing Montreal, we don't know why obviously and will never know. But I think it's safe to say that having Therrien doesn't help.
 

The Nightman

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Yeah...i'm going to go with it played no factor whatsoever

Just more Habs fans who have a hate on for Therrien trying to make a story out of nothing.

Not even going to bother arguing with you anymore, you're obviously way too close minded.
 
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417

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Well... who wouldn't want to play for Chicago? They're the cup favourites and have been for a while. Only reason not to want to go there would be the fear of not cracking the lineup.

As for him not choosing Montreal, we don't know why obviously and will never know. But I think it's safe to say that having Therrien doesn't help.

Having Therrien doesn't help?

I guess if you're of the opinion that he represents all evil

Yeah, I can see how one could do far reaching conclusions like that

Edit - I'm not a big Therrien fan either, but the notion that he was in the wrong with Sekac is an odd one IMO...

I hate his usage of Desharnais, his constant line juggling (though that's not very uncommon)...but Sekac???

Seems Boudreau feels the same way...perhaps they see things fans refuse to see

Not even going to bother arguing with you anymore, you're obviously way too close minded.

I'm open minded to plausible scenarios

Not one's made up in the minds of over zealous fans who have an odd obsession with hating the head coach of their team (not that I'm a huge fan either mind you)
 
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The Nightman

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I'm open minded to plausible scenarios

Not one's made up in the minds of over zealous fans who have an odd obsession with hating the head coach of their team (not that I'm a huge fan either mind you)

It really doesn't seem like you are.

I've said all that I can and even agreed with you that there is much more to take into consideration when choosing a team to sign for. However for you to suggest that this couldn't, under no circumstance have even the slightest impact at all is just wishful thinking at best.

Having Therrien doesn't help?

I guess if you're of the opinion that he represents all evil

Yeah, I can see how one could do far reaching conclusions like that

Edit - I'm not a big Therrien fan either, but the notion that he was in the wrong with Sekac is an odd one IMO...

I hate his usage of Desharnais, his constant line juggling (though that's not very uncommon)...but Sekac???

Seems Boudreau feels the same way...perhaps they see things fans refuse to see

Not to turn this into a Sekac vs DSP thread, but do you think just because DSP is playing in Montreal means Sekac is the inferior player?
 
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Whitesnake

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No, not at all...I expect better because I wouldn't expect you to think that a player with so little background would influence another players decision to sign with the Montreal Canadiens. Like, there are so many more compelling factors at play here. Jiri Sekac, despite the legend built around him on this board, has accomplished very little in his professional career.

Who has A LOT of background that comes up and play in the NHL as UFA? I'm not sure how a lot or not a lot of background makes any difference. So Da Costa had more going for him? Maybe so. Brunnstrom? Well that's probably closer. Yet, they both had their chances to shine. Only thing I believe we didn't give Sekac. Not sure what the background has anything to do with it, if you are 1 of the 10ish teams who are interested in a guy and pay him the max, something tells me that it's more about what you believe he'll do for you than what you saw him do in the past.

You can't seriously believe that because things didn't work out with Jiri Sekac here... that Artem Panarin won't sign him because of it.

Actually.....I never commented on Panarin. I understand your confusion, my bad, as I responded to Three Kings post about Panarin, but I made it as a general comment. As it was my point since the deal went on. So my point I made about having more problems bringing somebody in because of the Sekac situation, I brought it at the same time the deal was made. I didn't wait for Panarin to sign elsewhere. And I didn't even comment on that anyway. There was never any mention that Panarin visited Montréal or that we were interested or whatever, so I have no reason to believe that we were in anyway.


Ryan White spent 8 years in the Montreal Candiens organization?? How can you compare that to a guy who spent 3 months and did very little??? Are you going to hold a vigil for Andreas Engqvist too??

Many of you HAVE built Jiri Sekac into something bigger than he is...i'm sorry if that comes off as arrogant from me, I wasn't necessarily referring to you. But it's a bit much, don't you think?

Maybe it's because in the end....nobody has ever thought of him as a legend. That maybe, for White, Sekac or a few more, the only thing that was mentioned is that we liked him, loved his speed, and with our lack of offensive game, he should have gotten more chances to shine. Somehow, THIS = LEGEND for you. It,s not arrogant. It's a total misinterpretation of what people were saying. And somehow, it may also be a way for you, if he fails, to say that the step is pretty big from being a legend to going back to Russia after failing, while in the end....he never was put in a legend category.

So you're saying that the only thing a guy like Panarin would consider, is Jiri Sekac's experience with Therrien?

Yeah...seems plausible

Are you saying that this is what you've understand by that point? Okay, I guess it's my bad....so I'll re-explain. I was just saying that the Sekac situation MIGHT affect our chances to attract European UFA, that it's certainly not a good reason to come in and might be amongst a ton of other reasons why. I did say that at one point. So I have NO IDEA where you take your "The only thing". Again...some exagerration on your part.

And then, I was mostly responding to your point about Streit. I'm talking about Sekac situation, and something tells me that Therrien has a whole lot of responsibility (with Sekac) in this. Therrien doesn't strike me as a guy who can make the younger guys better than they are. Geez, to a point that we are becoming extremly worried by Galchenyuk, but that's another story. So when we came with this argument, with the argumenation about Therrien....you're responding with Streit. So, Streit wasn't coached by Therrien. I mean it has nothing with "the Montréal Canadiens" as it mostly has to do with who is coaching.

Edit - I'm not a big Therrien fan either, but the notion that he was in the wrong with Sekac is an odd one IMO...

I hate his usage of Desharnais, his constant line juggling (though that's not very uncommon)...but Sekac???

Seems Boudreau feels the same way...perhaps they see things fans refuse to see

BUt if he is wrong with Desharnais....his line juggling, and certainly a few others (can't believe you'd stop there....), why could he have not be wrong for Sekac?

As far as Boudreau feeling the same way.....well I will choose to think that their roster is so much better than ours as far as the forwards are concerned, from offensive to defensive play. If Sekac would not have made the Sabres lineup....THEN you might have a point. DSP is not incredible so far. When all is said and done if we improve next year, do you think he still makes it even in a top 9 role? This guy is at best a 4th liner.....if he's great. It might be less clear now.....but he's totally a candidate himself to not play or, probalby like Sekac, be traded again.
 
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417

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It really doesn't seem like you are.

I've said all that I can and even agreed with you that there is much more to take into consideration when choosing a team to sign for. However for you to suggest that this couldn't, under no circumstance have even the slightest impact at all is just wishful thinking at best.

Oh...It's a possibility, I mean, it's also a possibility that he didn't want to sign in Montreal because he doesn't like poutine

Not to turn this into a Sekac vs DSP thread, but do you think just because DSP is playing in Montreal means Sekac is the inferior player

No I don't, I haven't even brought up DSP's name...as for Sekac, i'm not as big of a fan of his abilities as most are, that's clear judging by the reactions following the trade.

As far as Boudreau feeling the same way.....well I will choose to think that their roster is so much better than ours as far as the forwards are concerned, from offensive to defensive play. If Sekac would not have made the Sabres lineup....THEN you might have a point. DSP is not incredible so far. When all is said and done if we improve next year, do you think he still makes it even in a top 9 role? This guy is at best a 4th liner.....if he's great. It might be less clear now.....but he's totally a candidate himself to not play or, probalby like Sekac, be traded again.

The Anaheim Ducks much better than ours? Meh...I guess because you see Getzlaf & Perry, it's easy to say that.

But when you look at this closer, they still found a requirement to trade for Rene Bourque, Tomas Fleishmann & Jiri Sekac to complete their forwards.

Anaheim scored 14 more goals than the Habs, and that difference can mostly be attributed to their defenseman score more goals, so i'm not sure how true that statement is.

Again, and this is a fact that it seems you keep wanting to brush aside...perhaps Jiri Sekac just isn't as good as you think he is?? Maybe it's not Therrien, or Boudreau or how 'deep' the Ducks lineup is...maybe he's just not that good???

Anyways...we've gotten away from the thread discussion. Apologies for perhaps misinterpreting your and others words. But let's try to be a bit more balanced in this debate, Jiri Sekac history with the Montreal Canadiens may play a factor in other potential euro UFA's to sign in Montreal...I guess it's a possibility, but IMO, it's quite a stretch, and it's based mostly on some people's obsession with finding any reason to hate on Therrien...
 
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Whitesnake

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The Anaheim Ducks much better than ours? Meh...I guess because you see Getzlaf & Perry, it's easy to say that.

But when you look at this closer, they still found a requirement to trade for Rene Bourque, Tomas Fleishmann & Jiri Sekac to complete their forwards.

Anaheim scored 14 more goals than the Habs, and that difference can mostly be attributed to their defenseman score more goals, so i'm not sure how true that statement is.

Again, and this is a fact that it seems you keep wanting to brush aside...perhaps Jiri Sekac just isn't as good as you think he is?? Maybe it's not Therrien, or Boudreau or how 'deep' the Ducks lineup is...maybe he's just not that good???

Anyways...we've gotten away from the thread discussion. Apologies for perhaps misinterpreting your and others words. But let's try to be a bit more balanced in this debate, Jiri Sekac history with the Montreal Canadiens may play a factor in other potential euro UFA's to sign in Montreal...I guess it's a possibility, but IMO, it's quite a stretch, and it's based mostly on some people's obsession with finding any reason to hate on Therrien...

Well it's not really tough to analyse. We have DD in the top 6. We have Weise or DSP in the top 6. We also had Parenteau at one point. Look at Anaheim, and we have to agree that somehow, you have to take Beleskey, Maroon, Silfverberg and even Fleischmann ahead of Weise and DSP. Sekac is playing right wing? Well so Palmieri has had a great season this year finally.....deserves to be there more than Sekac. Now, where Sekac should have at least beaten is Tim Jackman. Boudreau goes toughness before going speed. Fine. Now...is it possible that we've been wrong for Sekac? ABSOLUTELY. I have no idea where you take that we said that we own the truth and that Sekac will be soon a 40-goal scorer. No idea. AT WORST, again, we wanted to see him have a chance based on how bad our top 6 was. You have Weise and DSP on your top 6. That's not Beleskey...not Maroon, not Silfverberg and not even Fleishchmann. Geez, it's not even Palmieri, who I'd pick in my top 6 ahead of DSP and Weise. That's all there was to it. Our top 6 needs help more than Anaheim needs it. But then, true, Sekac can't whether it's his wing or off-wing, can't beat guys like Jackman, Cogliano or Etem. Yet, while hockey game isn't solely points...and we LOVE in here to talk about projection, he had 23 points in 69 games in his first very NHL season mixed with sitting and playing, and for most of the time on the bottom 6. So that's a 27 points on a 82 game season. Projection of 26 points with us in a full season....30 points with Anaheim in a 82 game season with his 7 points in 19 games. I still Wonder how those stats are bad based on his usage....I just don't know. First season.....around a projection of 30 points in a 82-game season.....maybe you were expecting more after all. But how's that bad? How's that, for a team like us, not even top 6 tryout? Especially based on who we have?

And if you still want to stick with your legend fantasy, well don't blame the fans. Blame the numerous teams that wanted him and we acquired him and beaten every single team to it. Blame the fine start of the season, blame the speed he showed that was probably one of the speediest player of the team. Blame the Ducks for trading for him, as they traded this playoff superstar in DSP (yeah right....) for a player based on what you said, was really never that interesting to begin with. Why would a team like Anaheim be interested in him anyway? If a team who just acquired him and are ready to let him go mid-1st year.....shouldn't it be an alarm to the team acquiring him? Especially while letting go a still Young very full of promise hard-checking playoff warrior type of guy?

So yep....we might have thought he was bigger and better than he actually was....but somehow I have also no idea why the fans are being blamed for thinking that while not that long ago....it's those professionnals that were also enamoured by the kid.....
 

417

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Well it's not really tough to analyse. We have DD in the top 6. We have Weise or DSP in the top 6. We also had Parenteau at one point. Look at Anaheim, and we have to agree that somehow, you have to take Beleskey, Maroon, Silfverberg and even Fleischmann ahead of Weise and DSP. Sekac is playing right wing? Well so Palmieri has had a great season this year finally.....deserves to be there more than Sekac. Now, where Sekac should have at least beaten is Tim Jackman. Boudreau goes toughness before going speed. Fine. Now...is it possible that we've been wrong for Sekac? ABSOLUTELY. I have no idea where you take that we said that we own the truth and that Sekac will be soon a 40-goal scorer. No idea. AT WORST, again, we wanted to see him have a chance based on how bad our top 6 was. You have Weise and DSP on your top 6. That's not Beleskey...not Maroon, not Silfverberg and not even Fleishchmann. Geez, it's not even Palmieri, who I'd pick in my top 6 ahead of DSP and Weise. That's all there was to it. Our top 6 needs help more than Anaheim needs it. But then, true, Sekac can't whether it's his wing or off-wing, can't beat guys like Jackman, Cogliano or Etem. Yet, while hockey game isn't solely points...and we LOVE in here to talk about projection, he had 23 points in 69 games in his first very NHL season mixed with sitting and playing, and for most of the time on the bottom 6. So that's a 27 points on a 82 game season. Projection of 26 points with us in a full season....30 points with Anaheim in a 82 game season with his 7 points in 19 games. I still Wonder how those stats are bad based on his usage....I just don't know. First season.....around a projection of 30 points in a 82-game season.....maybe you were expecting more after all. But how's that bad? How's that, for a team like us, not even top 6 tryout? Especially based on who we have?

And if you still want to stick with your legend fantasy, well don't blame the fans. Blame the numerous teams that wanted him and we acquired him and beaten every single team to it. Blame the fine start of the season, blame the speed he showed that was probably one of the speediest player of the team. Blame the Ducks for trading for him, as they traded this playoff superstar in DSP (yeah right....) for a player based on what you said, was really never that interesting to begin with. Why would a team like Anaheim be interested in him anyway? If a team who just acquired him and are ready to let him go mid-1st year.....shouldn't it be an alarm to the team acquiring him? Especially while letting go a still Young very full of promise hard-checking playoff warrior type of guy?

So yep....we might have thought he was bigger and better than he actually was....but somehow I have also no idea why the fans are being blamed for thinking that while not that long ago....it's those professionnals that were also enamoured by the kid.....

Good post WS...but like I said earlier, seems like there's always an excuse for Sekac's struggles. It's always the coach, or depth, etc.

Anyways, I don't want to derail this thread any further...i'll just never understand this Sekac obsession and that's fine with me.
 

Whitesnake

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Good post WS...but like I said earlier, seems like there's always an excuse for Sekac's struggles. It's always the coach, or depth, etc.

Anyways, I don't want to derail this thread any further...i'll just never understand this Sekac obsession and that's fine with me.

You are right. He has to take some blame as far as his consistency. NO DOUBT. But I just choose to see him as a 1st year NHL Pro. Which he is. I've been blamed often for not being patient....I chose to be for him. That's it.

As far as derailing the thread....well it's not like we're going to sign somebody 'cause....you know....THE SEKAC SITUATION. ;) (Just joking...don't reply)
 

Andrei79

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Why would you go to Chicago, though? That's a tough roster to crack for offense. I suppose, it's intoxicating thinking about playing with Kane..

I know if I was Panarin and I watched one Habs game, I'd say, nope, no way, this system is horrendous and I'd die from boredom.


Wouldn't that same exact logic have applied to Sekac?
 

Whitesnake

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While we all know that Gadoury was a product of Drouin with his 20 goals in 19 games in 2013-2014, he still did fine this year without him with his 67 points in 70 games, playoffs included. Not sure though that he will and should be a target at any point though. Just like the interest have surely cooled down for other guys like Goulet.
 

WeThreeKings

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While we all know that Gadoury was a product of Drouin with his 20 goals in 19 games in 2013-2014, he still did fine this year without him with his 67 points in 70 games, playoffs included. Not sure though that he will and should be a target at any point though. Just like the interest have surely cooled down for other guys like Goulet.

Invite him back to the camp.

He played through injuries in the play-offs. I know he had some issues with injury at our camp as well. I'd say his production this season is rather good considering the side-tracked nature of his overall season.
 

Whitesnake

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Invite him back to the camp.

He played through injuries in the play-offs. I know he had some issues with injury at our camp as well. I'd say his production this season is rather good considering the side-tracked nature of his overall season.

They might very well be coming back. Wonder if we'll see Quattrocchi back at camp? :sarcasm:
 

Whitesnake

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What do you think of Loiseau in Rimouski ?

I like Loiseau. Find him to be quite intelligent on all 3 zones. Not sure of the kind of offensive game he'd have in the pros....I do have my doubts about that....but he's surely quite interesting. Wouldn't be against signing him. Yet...I have my doubts about what the Habs want to do as we have not a whole lot of indications about if we're interested in doing something....if the Habs just don't want to know their options and how close they will be to 50....They might think there's a possiblity there that they might not have enough room. Wonder what Grant knows about that....

One thing is sure....he would clearly be a Therrien favorite if he'd made it. Really responsible defensively.
 
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L4br3cqu3

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Sounds like Viktor Tikhonov wants to return to the NHL. He'll be a UFA on July 1st. Also a rumor that Sergei Plotnikov an undrafted FA wants to come over.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=123906

If I remember well, Tikhonov just signed a 1 year extension with the Coyotes before he left, is his contract still valid in the NHL, or could he go anywhere ?

Sure would be interesting, as I think he'd fit exactly into the style (or non-style) of Therrien, or more precisely into what Bergevin seems to want to build.

I just wonder, like a lot of people, if the Therrien/Sekac situation will have repercussions...
 

montreal

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rumors of Marek Daloga, an undrafted Euro FA defensemen might be NHL bound. He was a teammate of Reway's this year and had a decent year. On the trade board it's said that he turned down a contract from dallas last year.

Looks like these rumors weren't true as Daloga just signed with AK Bars (who are rumored to be interested in Sekac) unless he has an NHL out clause.

If I remember well, Tikhonov just signed a 1 year extension with the Coyotes before he left, is his contract still valid in the NHL, or could he go anywhere ?

Sure would be interesting, as I think he'd fit exactly into the style (or non-style) of Therrien, or more precisely into what Bergevin seems to want to build.

I just wonder, like a lot of people, if the Therrien/Sekac situation will have repercussions...

The Yotes will likely make a last ditch effort to sign him, but it sounds like he wants to be a UFA on July 1st so I take that to mean he'll be signing somewhere else. I think the Habs should kick the tires and would assume they will especially if the cap doesn't go up much and Petry is re-signed to a big deal.

I don't see any issues with Sekac and it effecting future UFA's, but only GM's, UFA's and their agents know that answer.
 

The Nightman

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O'Connor to Ottawa. I guess that's it for Hamburger in Ottawa.

Wonder what they do with Lehner.
 

montreal

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per Elliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts


7. Hearing Edmonton (among others) has some interest in Dean Kukan, a Swiss defenceman. He will be 22-years-old in July and spent the past two seasons with Lulea in the Swedish league. He was injured early at the worlds, which is affecting his play, but is a good skater. Big question will be if he’s ready for North America. Another defenceman getting looked at is 27-year-old Czech Jakub Nakladal, who plays for Turku in the Finnish league. But I’m less sure of his future.

8. As European-based scorers like Steve Moses and Artem Panarin find NHL employment, another one hopes to make the leap. Derek Ryan, a Spokane-born former Alberta Golden Bear, led the Swedish league in scoring with 60 points in 55 games for Orebro. He’s 28 and not the biggest guy in the world, but everyone’s looking for the next Tyler Johnson. Toronto had some discussions about him, although I’m not sure they’ll do it. Another possibility, apparently, is Washington.
 

Richiebottles

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per Elliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts


7. Hearing Edmonton (among others) has some interest in Dean Kukan, a Swiss defenceman. He will be 22-years-old in July and spent the past two seasons with Lulea in the Swedish league. He was injured early at the worlds, which is affecting his play, but is a good skater. Big question will be if he’s ready for North America. Another defenceman getting looked at is 27-year-old Czech Jakub Nakladal, who plays for Turku in the Finnish league. But I’m less sure of his future.

8. As European-based scorers like Steve Moses and Artem Panarin find NHL employment, another one hopes to make the leap. Derek Ryan, a Spokane-born former Alberta Golden Bear, led the Swedish league in scoring with 60 points in 55 games for Orebro. He’s 28 and not the biggest guy in the world, but everyone’s looking for the next Tyler Johnson. Toronto had some discussions about him, although I’m not sure they’ll do it. Another possibility, apparently, is Washington.

Soooo who are we signing ?
 

HabsDieHard*

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Would like to see them add another guy along the lines of Carr, he seems to have been a nice signing.

Always nice to have depth, and the Habs seem to building a pretty deep organization.
 
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