The Columbus Dispatch: Umberger wants out (Dispatch link post #276)

[blahblah]

I think any team who is young and has a lot of cap room would be a good place for him. He still has something to offer.

You've just described quite a few of the bad teams I was referencing. Having said that, if I had one of those teams RJ wouldn't be at the top of my list.

For some strange reason I keep thinking NJ would be a good fit.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

=RDriesenUD;85461127]http://www.capgeek.com/[/url Look ... for the cost of the amnesty many times over.

 

[EspenK]

I just think he'll get to his new team via UFA rather than trade. I see no reason why the CBJ would accept a bad player with a bad contract in return for RJU. This is a franchise with an upward trajectory and the manner in which the current trend would be best maintained is by cutting it clean with RJU. No reason to retain salary or accept a bad player and/or a bad contract in return.

Amnesty buyout is the most expensive option in terms of cash outlay, but the additional cap space and almost guaranteed improvement of the team by going this route is well worth the expense. An increasingly competitive CBJ squad will pay for the cost of the amnesty many times over.

I tend to agree that UFA is the way he'll go. I don't see us getting a returned asset that will help us so unless it is for picks and/or prospects I think the buyout route is still the most likely.

 

[EspenK]

For all you guys who are protective of Jackets' money, Wiz salary drops by a million this year. Just found the cash to fund most of Umbie's buyout.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

For all you guys who are protective of Jackets' money, Wiz salary drops by a million this year. Just found the cash to fund most of Umbie's buyout.

Jack Johnson's salary jumps to 5 million next season from 3.5. Additionally, the genius if Scott Howson has Fedor Tyutin's salary rising over the next 2 years from 4.5 last year to 4.75 this coming season to 5 for 15-16.

Jack's salary jumps 1.5 on its own. He was making 3.5.

Horton also jumps from 5 last season to 6 this coming year also and they signed Jared Boll to a new deal that pays him 1.7 for some reason.

 

[EspenK]

Talk about raining on my parade.

 

[Xoggz22]

For all you guys who are protective of Jackets' money, Wiz salary drops by a million this year. Just found the cash to fund most of Umbie's buyout.

And Wiz's salary in his final year is only $3MM but others increase during that time so unfortunately you still haven't sold me.

I'm operating under the assumption that the CBJ has a working budget and after years of losses (real? I don't know. I only know what was printed in the past.). We do know this team needed to add to the ownership group, transferr the event scheduling to OSU to share the burden and have the city buy the arena (among other cost shifting moves). I realize we have operated closer to the top of the Cap figure than the bottom in recent years and also realize this team has tried to build a winner to stem the loss of fans and rebuild the base. I still think JD is going to build like the St. Louis model and that was a shift to building the farm system, installing a culture and then beginning to fill in with youth to grow. That saved money for St. Louis short term and began to build a winner and bring the fan base back.

OK, enough babble from me. I just don't see the Blue Jackets resorting to buying out Umberger. That's probably considered me being delusional to some of you but this is a business and at some level RJ is still an asset. Many of you only see RJ as a liability and in other businesses (where contracts don't exist) the easy and prudent thing to do is cut bait. It changes when money is involved.

Let me be clear, if RJ were bought out I'm fine with it. I don't see it as a good decision based on more than one factor. I think RJ needs to move on but as a GM of a business myself, the move to simply dump money is not an easy one to make.

 

[Samkow]

I don't think we're exactly lighting cigars with $100 dollar bills but I have no doubt that if Kekalainen/Davidson thought buying out Umberger was necessary, McConnell would pony up. All other avenues will be explored first though.

 

[Fro]

I don't think we're exactly lighting cigars with $100 dollar bills but I have no doubt that if Kekalainen/Davidson thought buying out Umberger was necessary, McConnell would pony up. All other avenues will be explored first though.

agreed...

 

[EspenK]

I'm operating under the assumption that the CBJ has a working budget.

I think this is the key. I too assume they have a budget, both a cash flow one and a cap one. So to me it comes down to how do I spend those budgets? If I can live with spending, X mill on players, I don't care if I spend 1.5 to be done with a bad contract as long as I stay within the X mill limit. I'll figure out a way to make up the 1.5 spread out over the remaining 21 or 22 players.

I think too much is made of the pain of paying a guy not to play as opposed to focusing on how to put the best team possible on the ice and stay within the budget.

The other thing that has to be considered is the impact on attendance and revenue. If a better team adds 1k fans a game for 41 games, at $50 per (which I guess is very conservative) that adds 2 mill plus to the revenue stream to offset any increased payroll. Plus playoff games are all gravy.

All in all, while I understand the micro level view of hating to pay a guy who is not playing, I think the macro level view of improving the team is much more important.

Bottom line, if Umbie is not traded by the end of the compliance buyout deadline, I don't see how you can keep him. If you do you are spending $4.6 next year for him and you haven't improved the team.

 

[Jackets16]

I think this is the key. I too assume they have a budget, both a cash flow one and a cap one. So to me it comes down to how do I spend those budgets? If I can live with spending, X mill on players, I don't care if I spend 1.5 to be done with a bad contract as long as I stay within the X mill limit. I'll figure out a way to make up the 1.5 spread out over the remaining 21 or 22 players.

I think too much is made of the pain of paying a guy not to play as opposed to focusing on how to put the best team possible on the ice and stay within the budget.

The other thing that has to be considered is the impact on attendance and revenue. If a better team adds 1k fans a game for 41 games, at $50 per (which I guess is very conservative) that adds 2 mill plus to the revenue stream to offset any increased payroll. Plus playoff games are all gravy.

All in all, while I understand the micro level view of hating to pay a guy who is not playing, I think the macro level view of improving the team is much more important.

Bottom line, if Umbie is not traded by the end of the compliance buyout deadline, I don't see how you can keep him. If you do you are spending $4.6 next year for him and you haven't improved the team.

Exactly. I don't care how we get to our budget. All I care about is we put together the best team we possibly can within that budget.

 

[NotWendell]

Exactly. I don't care how we get to our budget. All I care about is we put together the best team we possibly can within that budget.

JD and Jarmo's job: build a roster that can win the Cup under league rules.
My job: make some noise.

 

[Crede777]

Bourque obviously has had a poor regular season (17 points in 65 games IIRC) but at $3.333 million and 2 years remaining would he be a good trade for Umberger straight up?

Not just bringing him up because he has 2 goals tonight, I think he's a low value player (or was until recently) that brings a combination of speed, physicality, and some experience. Similar to Umberger but cheaper and faster.

Edit: 3 goals.

 

[Nanabijou]

Bourque obviously has had a poor regular season (17 points in 65 games IIRC) but at $3.333 million and 2 years remaining would he be a good trade for Umberger straight up?

Not just bringing him up because he has 2 goals tonight, I think he's a low value player (or was until recently) that brings a combination of speed, physicality, and some experience. Similar to Umberger but cheaper and faster.

Edit: 3 goals.

Yes, someone brought up Bourque before and I thought it would be a good change of scenery-type trade for both. However, Bourque has had a pretty good playoffs, although a little up and down, so he may have increased his value too much for a straight-up trade for Umby.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Bourque obviously has had a poor regular season (17 points in 65 games IIRC) but at $3.333 million and 2 years remaining would he be a good trade for Umberger straight up?

Not just bringing him up because he has 2 goals tonight, I think he's a low value player (or was until recently) that brings a combination of speed, physicality, and some experience. Similar to Umberger but cheaper and faster.

Edit: 3 goals.

No chance in hell. Maybe even less.

Bourque is on his way to becoming a cult figure in Montreal. His putrid regular season is a distant memory. He leads the Habs in post season goals with 8.

If Marc Bergevin (Mont GM) were to trade Bourque for Umberger, then he'd have to go into the Canadian equivalent of the Witness Protection Program

 

[major major]

No chance in hell. Maybe even less.

Bourque is on his way to becoming a cult figure in Montreal. His putrid regular season is a distant memory. He leads the Habs in post season goals with 8.

If Marc Bergevin (Mont GM) were to trade Bourque for Umberger, then he'd have to go into the Canadian equivalent of the Witness Protection Program

It's too bad Bourque, who's Metis, doesn't speak a lick of French. Maybe he's learned some in the last couple years, but as of two years ago he didn't know any, which was a disappointment to Francophone Canadians.

 

[EspenK]

It's too bad Bourque, who's Metis, doesn't speak a lick of French. Maybe he's learned some in the last couple years, but as of two years ago he didn't know any, which was a disappointment to Francophone Canadians.

Dang! You never know what you will learn on HF. Never heard of them before.

 

[Xoggz22]

Dang! You never know what you will learn on HF. Never heard of them before.

They play baseball in NY...

 

[EspenK]

They play baseball in NY...

That is amazin'

 

[Cyclones Rock]

It's too bad Bourque, who's Metis, doesn't speak a lick of French. Maybe he's learned some in the last couple years, but as of two years ago he didn't know any, which was a disappointment to Francophone Canadians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Métis_people_(Canada)

Basically an Indian/European mixed breed, for those who did not know-which is basically everyone.

I remember when he was traded for Mike Cammalleri -who was informed of the trade and taken out of the line up during a game-and just assumed that anyone named Bourque would be fluent in french. Alas, Rene, like me, parle pas non francais.

Bourque was a complete no show this past regular season. In fact, his production during his tenure in Montreal has been, well, putrid.
In 128 reg. seaosn games in Montreal he's 21g 16a=37 points compared to his previous 2.5 seasons of 191 games 67g 57a=124 points. He's gone from .35 goals per game to .16; .30 assists to .13. His points per game is 45% of what it was (.29 compared to .65).

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=54761

Prior to this playoff stretch, there's probably a very good chance that an Umberger for Bourque trade with enough salary retention by the Jackets to make the deal a financial wash could have been worked out. But, in hockey mad Monteal, a fantastic playoff run goes a long way in excusing 2.5 seasons of perhaps some of the laziest disinterested play imaginable. Think Jeff Carter-effort in Columbus on quaaludes.

Bourque has gone from being a vilified unwanted albatross to being The Amazin' Metis. Absolutely no credit will be given for this term when posted on the Montreal board. Just another self-generated creative gem from the always creative Cyclones Rock, they'll figure over there

 

[EspenK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Métis_people_(Canada)

Basically an Indian/European mixed breed, for those who did not know-which is basically everyone.

I remember when he was traded for Mike Cammalleri -who was informed of the trade and taken out of the line up during a game-and just assumed that anyone named Bourque would be fluent in french. Alas, Rene, like me, parle pas non francais.

Bourque was a complete no show this past regular season. In fact, his production during his tenure in Montreal has been, well, putrid.
In 128 reg. seaosn games in Montreal he's 21g 16a=37 points compared to his previous 2.5 seasons of 191 games 67g 57a=124 points. He's gone from .35 goals per game to .16; .30 assists to .13. His points per game is 45% of what it was (.29 compared to .65).

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=54761

Prior to this playoff stretch, there's probably a very good chance that an Umberger for Bourque trade with enough salary retention by the Jackets to make the deal a financial wash could have been worked out. But, in hockey mad Monteal, a fantastic playoff run goes a long way in excusing 2.5 seasons of perhaps some of the laziest disinterested play imaginable. Think Jeff Carter-effort in Columbus on quaaludes.

Bourque has gone from being a vilified unwanted albatross to being The Amazin' Metis. Absolutely no credit will be given for this term when posted on the Montreal board. Just another self-generated creative gem from the always creative Cyclones Rock, they'll figure over there

In this case I will testify to plagiarism. See above response to X.

 

[pete goegan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Métis_people_(Canada)

Basically an Indian/European mixed breed, for those who did not know-which is basically everyone.

I remember when he was traded for Mike Cammalleri -who was informed of the trade and taken out of the line up during a game-and just assumed that anyone named Bourque would be fluent in french. Alas, Rene, like me, parle pas non francais.

Bourque was a complete no show this past regular season. In fact, his production during his tenure in Montreal has been, well, putrid.
In 128 reg. seaosn games in Montreal he's 21g 16a=37 points compared to his previous 2.5 seasons of 191 games 67g 57a=124 points. He's gone from .35 goals per game to .16; .30 assists to .13. His points per game is 45% of what it was (.29 compared to .65).

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=54761

Prior to this playoff stretch, there's probably a very good chance that an Umberger for Bourque trade with enough salary retention by the Jackets to make the deal a financial wash could have been worked out. But, in hockey mad Monteal, a fantastic playoff run goes a long way in excusing 2.5 seasons of perhaps some of the laziest disinterested play imaginable. Think Jeff Carter-effort in Columbus on quaaludes.

Bourque has gone from being a vilified unwanted albatross to being The Amazin' Metis. Absolutely no credit will be given for this term when posted on the Montreal board. Just another self-generated creative gem from the always creative Cyclones Rock, they'll figure over there

Justin Bourne agrees with you:

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/510168

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Here's a juicy one: R.J. Umberger to Edmonton for Sam Gagner. It's out there, and it makes a lot of sense ... on paper. Gagner has backpedaled since a strong start of his career, and the Oilers would love to get out from under his $4.8 million cap hit and his $5 million salary the next two seasons. As you may have read in this space previously, Umberger requested a trade at his year-end meeting with coaches and management. He has three years remaining at $4.6 million per season. The salary number is almost a match, but the Blue Jackets may still need to pay some of Umberger's salary to help offset the third year. That's legal under the new CBA. The Oilers want more size and grit. They could use somebody to stand in front of the net and chew up space. This could happen. Then again, here's a big reason it might not happen ...

-- Umberger, per his contract, will give the Blue Jackets on June 15 a list of 10 teams to which he may NOT be traded. As a proud Yinzer -- Umberger is from Plum, Pa., just outside Pittsburgh -- I'm guessing the Oilers may be on his non-clearance list. That's a long way from home, and Edmonton has a long history of not being a destination city for NHL players and families. Then again, if Umberger wants to leave that badly ...

-- I'm not sure how this will go if the Blue Jackets can't trade Umberger. Would they buy him out? Possible, I suppose. But it's hard for ownership to get their arms around the idea of paying a guy $1.55 million for the next six years to NOT play. They're STILL playing Mike Commodore, by the way.

-- Don't pay much mind to those who assure you "Umberger can't be traded with that contract!" They may ultimately be right, but lots of big deals that seem untradable get done. The New York Rangers unloaded Scott Gomez, who was deemed untradeable. Just last March, Carolina traded Tuomo Ruutu to the New Jersey Devils for Andrei Loktionov and a third-round pick, and the Canes didn't eat any of Ruutu's $4.75 million cap hit. And that was in-season, not out-of-season when clubs have more cap flexibility.

-- Whom would you rather have at this point in their careers? Ruutu or Umberger? Not a bad question.

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/2014/05/a-collection.html

 

[CBJx614]

Also take into consideration that if players like Dano, Wennberg, Rychel and Bjorkstrand force their way into the line-up in the next 3 years some players they would be replacing would have to go clearing up salary space. Though not something that can be counted on, but definitely something to think about.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/2014/05/a-collection.html

Here's a juicy one: R.J. Umberger to Edmonton for Sam Gagner. It's out there, and it makes a lot of sense ... on paper. Gagner has backpedaled since a strong start of his career, and the Oilers would love to get out from under his $4.8 million cap hit and his $5 million salary the next two seasons. As you may have read in this space previously, Umberger requested a trade at his year-end meeting with coaches and management. He has three years remaining at $4.6 million per season. The salary number is almost a match, but the Blue Jackets may still need to pay some of Umberger's salary to help offset the third year. That's legal under the new CBA. The Oilers want more size and grit. They could use somebody to stand in front of the net and chew up space. This could happen. Then again, here's a big reason it might not happen ...

If this could be worked out, then I'll start believing in the Easter Bunny again. I only read the Dispatch CBJ writers on links through links provided on this board. I think that this writer might be on the CBJ payroll

Gagner had 36 points in the 48 game lockout season-it looked like a breakout season for him. He got his jaw busted in preseason this past year and only produced at a 45 point (for 82 games) pace. There were plenty of excuses for why he may have not continued his progression. He's only 25 years old and a former 6th overall pick.

Getting albatross RJU off the CBJ for this guy and his contract would be a miracle.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=93938



Interesting article:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Matt-Henderson/Going-Going-Gagner/191/60322