The Columbus Dispatch: Umberger wants out (Dispatch link post #276)

[cbjfaninmo]

Sounds like the wheels are in motion and RJ will be gone. JK will find a dance partner. Goodbye RJ.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Great divorce in emotion but the CBJ can't trade him (salary) and there is no logical ($) reason to buy him out... he stays.

He stays and this team doesn't make the playoffs next year because all locker room chemistry is now gone. Even if it is not intended, he can't be here anymore now that this is out.

 

[Robert]

He stays and this team doesn't make the playoffs next year because all locker room chemistry is now gone. Even if it is not intended, he can't be here anymore now that this is out.

I'm tired of seeing ex CBJ players on final four NHL playoff teams... RJ is not that good but damn, we can't dump every veteran..

 

[thebus2288*]

Name them.

9 better forwards on all teams other than: Buffalo, Calgary and Edmonton...Still closer to the 4th line than he is the 2nd.

4th line in Florida, Nashville, Long Island, Phoenix, Toronto and Vancouver


There's 9 teams you can make a case that he could possibly play on the 3rd line. Same 9 teams you can say that he'd also be on the 4th. Its based on how people value certain players. It will vary.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

I think there are plenty of teams

that need Umberger for a 3rd line checking winger. That is what he is. Not a leader, not for the PP, or PK, but a good 3rd line checking winger that can score. There is no shame in playing the way RJ plays, and many teams would like to have his grit. The issue is getting a team to take his play at 4.5MM, that is a lot of bones. I understand Scott Howson's reasoning - but he screwed us on this deal.

We will need to keep $1MM to 1.5MM of this contract, but RJ is as good as gone, and it makes room for the youth movement. Good Luck Umby!!

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I'm tired of seeing ex CBJ players on final four NHL playoff teams... RJ is not that good but damn, we can't dump every veteran..

So if obtaining RJ is a guarantee to make the conference finals next year, I'd think every team in the league would be lining up to get him.

If he plays in the conference finals, its not going to be because he is a cornerstone of a team. Its because he is a piece to the puzzle tat already has most of the puzzle in place.

For the CBJ puzzle, RJ is that one piece where the corner may be worn or the little tab is broken off and it just doesn't exactly fit anymore.

 

[Socks]

The Umby hate has gotten ridiculous. He's overpaid and slowing down and is no longer an asset in the top 6. Ok fine - that, among other things such as possible tension with the coach is why he won't be back next year. But people are acting as I'd he's the equivalent to a John Scott - a plug who can barely skate backwards without tripping over himself and that's simply not true. He's an ideal 3rd liner that can play up if need be. He can play center or wing. Decent on faceoffs. Can be utilized on specialty teams. Will give you roughly 20 goals a year.

For us, where we're going, we don't need him at what he's paid. And now apparently he wants to move on. Guess what? If I were in his position I'd probably be hurt by the scratches too, given the context. Umby had started playing well again and for that he gets scratched? Damn straight I'd be upset. But the hatred has gone over the top and I'm tired of seeing it. Call me an apologist, whatever. I just think hating Umby is the cool thing around here and it's spiraled out of control.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

The Umby hate has gotten ridiculous. He's overpaid and slowing down and is no longer an asset in the top 6. Ok fine - that, among other things such as possible tension with the coach is why he won't be back next year. But people are acting as I'd he's the equivalent to a John Scott - a plug who can barely skate backwards without tripping over himself and that's simply not true. He's an ideal 3rd liner that can play up if need be. He can play center or wing. Decent on faceoffs. Can be utilized on specialty teams. Will give you roughly 20 goals a year.

For us, where we're going, we don't need him at what he's paid. And now apparently he wants to move on. Guess what? If I were in his position I'd probably be hurt by the scratches too, given the context. Umby had started playing well again and for that he gets scratched? Damn straight I'd be upset. But the hatred has gone over the top and I'm tired of seeing it. Call me an apologist, whatever. I just think hating Umby is the cool thing around here and it's spiraled out of control.

I wouldn't say you were an apologist. He has been a key piece of this team in the past and I have no hard feelings of him wanting to move on. The moment I heard that they want to be faster next season, I knew that RJ would be gone. He just doesn't fit the makeup of where the team wants t go any longer.

No hard feelings and I won't boo him. Its just time for both sides to move on.

 

[Robert]

The Umby hate has gotten ridiculous. He's overpaid and slowing down and is no longer an asset in the top 6. Ok fine - that, among other things such as possible tension with the coach is why he won't be back next year. But people are acting as I'd he's the equivalent to a John Scott - a plug who can barely skate backwards without tripping over himself and that's simply not true. He's an ideal 3rd liner that can play up if need be. He can play center or wing. Decent on faceoffs. Can be utilized on specialty teams. Will give you roughly 20 goals a year.

For us, where we're going, we don't need him at what he's paid. And now apparently he wants to move on. Guess what? If I were in his position I'd probably be hurt by the scratches too, given the context. Umby had started playing well again and for that he gets scratched? Damn straight I'd be upset. But the hatred has gone over the top and I'm tired of seeing it. Call me an apologist, whatever. I just think hating Umby is the cool thing around here and it's spiraled out of control.

My fear Socks is seeing to many good Blue Jacket players wanting to get out of Dodge... players that go onto winning teams..

John Davidson better be concerned about the perception of Blue Jacket players wanting to jump ship as rats on a sinking ship... just saying.

 

[EDM]

Robert, your comment about rats on a sinking ship is .....ridiculous.

 

[Mayor Bee]

9 better forwards on all teams other than: Buffalo, Calgary and Edmonton...Still closer to the 4th line than he is the 2nd.

4th line in Florida, Nashville, Long Island, Phoenix, Toronto and Vancouver


There's 9 teams you can make a case that he could possibly play on the 3rd line. Same 9 teams you can say that he'd also be on the 4th. Its based on how people value certain players. It will vary.

Really....let's use Winnipeg as an example.

No one except Ivan Telegin is NHL-caliber and isn't on their NHL roster. Forwards currently on the roster are Wheeler, Kane, Little, Ladd, Slater, Scheifele, Tangradi, Peluso, Frolik, Halischuk, Wright, Jokinen, Setoguchi, Thorburn. That's 14 forwards, not including Telegin. And let's also say that they were all under contract for next year, which they're not.

There is zero question that Umberger is better than Thorburn, Wright, Halischuk, Peluso, Tangradi, Slater, and Telegin. That in itself would have Umberger ranked 9th. He's not as good as Kane, Wheeler, Little, Ladd, and Scheifele. I'd have him as better than Setoguchi and Jokinen, and probably Frolik. So...he'd be somewhere between the 5th- and 7th-best forward on Winnipeg, which is a team that (although they missed the playoffs) wasn't exactly destroyed this year.

If you want to start getting into position, the only better RW on Winnipeg than Umberger is Blake Wheeler. That would have him slotted solidly on the 2nd line, alongside either Little or Scheifele up the middle and either Kane or Ladd on the far side.

 

[Robert]

Robert, your comment about rats on a sinking ship is .....ridiculous.

RJ wants out??? Kay..

You are the very person who has questioned Richards benching people in the past yet call me out??? RJ wants out beacuse Todd Richards benched him!!

 

[major major]

Really....let's use Winnipeg as an example.

No one except Ivan Telegin is NHL-caliber and isn't on their NHL roster. Forwards currently on the roster are Wheeler, Kane, Little, Ladd, Slater, Scheifele, Tangradi, Peluso, Frolik, Halischuk, Wright, Jokinen, Setoguchi, Thorburn. That's 14 forwards, not including Telegin. And let's also say that they were all under contract for next year, which they're not.

There is zero question that Umberger is better than Thorburn, Wright, Halischuk, Peluso, Tangradi, Slater, and Telegin. That in itself would have Umberger ranked 9th. He's not as good as Kane, Wheeler, Little, Ladd, and Scheifele. I'd have him as better than Setoguchi and Jokinen, and probably Frolik. So...he'd be somewhere between the 5th- and 7th-best forward on Winnipeg, which is a team that (although they missed the playoffs) wasn't exactly destroyed this year.

If you want to start getting into position, the only better RW on Winnipeg than Umberger is Blake Wheeler. That would have him slotted solidly on the 2nd line, alongside either Little or Scheifele up the middle and either Kane or Ladd on the far side.

Frolik > Umberger. Maybe Jokinen too. I think your point stands that he would be a 3rd line upgrade for WPG, but he wouldn't be a second line upgrade.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

9 better forwards on all teams other than: Buffalo, Calgary and Edmonton...Still closer to the 4th line than he is the 2nd.

4th line in Florida, Nashville, Long Island, Phoenix, Toronto and Vancouver


There's 9 teams you can make a case that he could possibly play on the 3rd line. Same 9 teams you can say that he'd also be on the 4th. Its based on how people value certain players. It will vary.

He'd be a first liner on Florida and Nashville. A 2nd liner in Phoenix, and a 3rd liner on the rest. You're wrong.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

RJ wants out??? Kay..

You are the very person who has questioned Richards benching people in the past yet call me out??? RJ wants out beacuse Todd Richards benched him!!

Richards did what he felt was in the best interest in the team, if players want to jump ship for fear of that, then let them, because they don't have the spine to be Blue Jackets.

 

[SuperGenius]

Davidson speaks about Umby on Wall 2 Wall Sports (more or less):

http://www.10tv.com/content/sections/video/index.html?ooid=1tM3h4bTrhzzvz-3u5oZTC7ml6Bc0oc8&cmpid=share

 

[Mayor Bee]

Frolik > Umberger. Maybe Jokinen too. I think your point stands that he would be a 3rd line upgrade for WPG, but he wouldn't be a second line upgrade.

Jokinen is also 35 and isn't signed, but more striking is the fact that his 18 goals and 43 points this year was considered a rebound year.

Frolik is debatable; he's done almost nothing outside of Florida, even given plenty of opportunities.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

He'd be a first liner on Florida and Nashville. A 2nd liner in Phoenix, and a 3rd liner on the rest. You're wrong.

No. You are.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+RW&f5=CBJ&f7=50-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

RJU produced 1.28 points/60 minutes at even strength in 2013-14.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+RW&f5=PHX&f7=50-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

That would tie him for 11th of 12 Phoenix forwards in that category.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+RW&f5=NSH&f7=50-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

9th on Nashville

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+RW&f5=FLA&f7=50-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

9th on Florida

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+RW&f5=WPG&f7=50-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

10th on Winnipeg

While I fully comprehend that there are other factors which go into a player evaluation, productivity per unit of ice time is a very important measure. Umberger's has been awful for two year's running. RJU isn't a physical player, he isn't a PKer, he doesn't skate well.......he just doesn't bring much to the table anymore.

His productivity was higher than it would have been last season if he had been properly slotted as he had the advantage of playing with Ryan Johansen on the first line for a good portion of the season.

RJUs productivity over the past two seasons combined with his age and salary and lack of other attributes doesn't even make him an attractive candidate to earn him a spot on the 3rd or 4th line of the dregs of the NHL.

 

[EspenK]

Davidson speaks about Umby on Wall 2 Wall Sports (more or less):

http://www.10tv.com/content/sections/video/index.html?ooid=1tM3h4bTrhzzvz-3u5oZTC7ml6Bc0oc8&cmpid=share

Thanks for posting this. I think the key point JD made was that to get better you have to keep evolving. Too many fans fail to see that or get emotionally connected to players. When I watch teams like the Blackhawks or Kings, I see a world of difference between them and the Jackets.

I also see teams that are built on a combination of draftees and players acquired by trade or free agency. LA traded two promising young players (Simmons and Schenn) for Mike Richards, a decent defenseman and a #1 for Carter. And don't forget the Frattin + draft choices for Gabby (couldn't resist). Chicago let a SC winning goalie go to UFA. And let a few other good players go for cap reasons.

I believe the Jackets are on the right track and with a few key additions and the development of what appears to be a very good prospect pool should be a team to be reckoned with for many years.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

While I fully comprehend that there are other factors which go into a player evaluation

Then why don't you use them as well. Are you really suggesting that Umberger would be the 12th best forward on the Coyotes or the 11th best forward on the Jets? Because it looks like that's what you're doing.

 

[Jackets16]

Thanks for posting this. I think the key point JD made was that to get better you have to keep evolving. Too many fans fail to see that or get emotionally connected to players. When I watch teams like the Blackhawks or Kings, I see a world of difference between them and the Jackets.

I also see teams that are built on a combination of draftees and players acquired by trade or free agency. LA traded two promising young players (Simmons and Schenn) for Mike Richards, a decent defenseman and a #1 for Carter. And don't forget the Frattin + draft choices for Gabby (couldn't resist). Chicago let a SC winning goalie go to UFA. And let a few other good players go for cap reasons.

I believe the Jackets are on the right track and with a few key additions and the development of what appears to be a very good prospect pool should be a team to be reckoned with for many years.

 

[Nordique]

I'm probably in the minority, but I'm a big fan of Umby. He's still an effective player, and he actually played pretty well in the 1st half.
8 of his 18 goals came on the PP this season, so there's proof he's not completely worthless.

Besides the last, what, 20 games of the season for RJ, he was really good, and was appearing to have a bounce back season.
I think Umby is still capable of being a 20-25 goal and 50-55 point guy, as are several other Jackets. And that's how this team scores; by committee. So when RJ is healthy, he's definitely a big part of our offense.

I'd say keep RJ, and see what he does next season/in the playoffs. If he is ineffective, then trading him at next season's deadline wouldn't be a bad option.

He is a better player than his current stock value. His only accomplishment per say this season was leading the team in PP goals, but he is better than that. I don't think 25 goals is unrealistic, even in a 3rd line, 2nd PP role. I'm only for moving him if salary retention is not involved, and a reciprical salary dump is not involved.. We have too many expenditures on the horizon to be paying another player not to play here, especially a guy perfectly capable of playing 2nd/3rd line wing.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Jokinen is also 35 and isn't signed, but more striking is the fact that his 18 goals and 43 points this year was considered a rebound year.

While this is wandering bit off... The Chief had nagging injuries and perhaps didn't fit among the Winnipego men. Even him not contributing that much to Finnish Olympic cause or Worlds challenge at the moment can't change the fact that 35-year-old OJ can still be more of an impact than R.J. at 32.

If you mean that if he would been better choice than Jokinen for this season then it's a more even race but if a organization had to choose between the two for the next season...

Not saying that he wouldn't fit into Winnipeg jersey though... no doubt there is someone inside the 29 organizations who thinks his current valuation is off. Can't see Umberger blocking any destination (perhaps Canada) either if he can get a shot at perceived second line duty somewhere.

 

[EDM]

Let me put it this way Robert. You comment suggest two things: (a) the Jackets are a sinking ship; and (2) any player who wants a trade is a rat. I think both ideas are absurd, hence I called it ridiculous.

Davidson's comments clearly explain the situation. If you want to get better the team has to evolve which means changes in personnel. Nothing about rats or ships.

And my criticism of Richards was about benching Atkinson, who at the time was second on the team in goal scoring, not just because he was benching "players".

 

[cbjfaninmo]

He is a better player than his current stock value. His only accomplishment per say this season was leading the team in PP goals, but he is better than that. I don't think 25 goals is unrealistic, even in a 3rd line, 2nd PP role. I'm only for moving him if salary retention is not involved, and a reciprical salary dump is not involved.. We have too many expenditures on the horizon to be paying another player not to play here, especially a guy perfectly capable of playing 2nd/3rd line wing.

I believe JK gets RJ moved with no salary retention. There will be a GM who bites. Where is Jay Feaster or XGMDM when you need them?