Blue Jays Discussion: Turn out the lights, the season's over.

[Suntouchable13]

First off congrats to the Nationals on winning the World Series, well deserved.

If this playoffs proved anything, starting pitching wins you championships. The Nationals rotation won them the championship. The Blue Jays should really focus on adding to the rotation this off season Their offense is suffice as long as you get pitchers that can shut down the opposition for 5-7 innings every game.

Looking forward to this off season. Should be interesting and very telling.

I don't have faith in the ownership or management. They will be happy with a ~.500 season and keep the payroll relatively down. Sorry, but it's so easy to feel this way.

 

[Discoverer]

I don't have faith in the ownership or management. They will be happy with a ~.500 season and keep the payroll relatively down. Sorry, but it's so easy to feel this way.

They're definitely going to spend plenty of money this offseason.

 

[jetsforever]

Great to see Hudson get to finish out the game!

 

[canucksfan]

They're definitely going to spend plenty of money this offseason.

If they don't, it's ownership then. Management has been clear they are willing to spend this year.

 

[ER89]

Anybody interested in castellanos?

 

[deletethis]

I think EE will be a bargain signing in the late winter for some contending team needing an upgrade at DH. The Yankees seem to have enough bats to cobble together a pretty substantial DH by committee next season.

 

[deletethis]

They're definitely going to spend plenty of money this offseason.

I agree. How, I wonder. Money should be spent as an act of good will to the paying customers. But for a GM on shaky ground, a couple of failed signings might be the tipping point regardless of the circumstances. Maybe there might be a way to use the money take a player in order to add more youth to the organization.

 

[dredeye]

I agree. How, I wonder. Money should be spent as an act of good will to the paying customers. But for a GM on shaky ground, a couple of failed signings might be the tipping point regardless of the circumstances. Maybe there might be a way to use the money take a player in order to add more youth to the organization.

They would absolutely use their financial strength as a tool if the situation presented itself. Get a strong player from a team looking to cut salary. They will be creative for sure this off season and I’m sure teams are aware we can take money.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Jays are going nowhere. All they did the last two years is dump salary and sign middling players who can’t hit for average or defend while stockpiling “prospects” who are destined for mediocrity.

The priority of ownership appears to be the same as Harold Ballard when he was in charge of the leafs. Take control by gutting the team and hope fans show up to watch visiting stars on the Yankees or Red Sox.

I’m highly sceptical that there is any legitimate rebuilding plan at all.

 

[stickty111]

Jays are going nowhere. All they did the last two years is dump salary and sign middling players who can’t hit for average or defend while stockpiling “prospects” who are destined for mediocrity.

The priority of ownership appears to be the same as Harold Ballard when he was in charge of the leafs. Take control by gutting the team and hope fans show up to watch visiting stars on the Yankees or Red Sox.

I’m highly sceptical that there is any legitimate rebuilding plan at all.

All their moves show that they have a plan in place.

 

[thehockeysong]

Jays are going nowhere. All they did the last two years is dump salary and sign middling players who can’t hit for average or defend while stockpiling “prospects” who are destined for mediocrity.

The priority of ownership appears to be the same as Harold Ballard when he was in charge of the leafs. Take control by gutting the team and hope fans show up to watch visiting stars on the Yankees or Red Sox.

I’m highly sceptical that there is any legitimate rebuilding plan at all.

What would you have done the last two years

 

[Discoverer]

Jays are going nowhere. All they did the last two years is dump salary and sign middling players who can’t hit for average or defend while stockpiling “prospects” who are destined for mediocrity.

The priority of ownership appears to be the same as Harold Ballard when he was in charge of the leafs. Take control by gutting the team and hope fans show up to watch visiting stars on the Yankees or Red Sox.

I’m highly sceptical that there is any legitimate rebuilding plan at all.

Yeah, and we've seen how horribly the whole "dump salary, sign middling players, stockpile 'prospects'" strategy has worked out for teams like the Twins and Cubs and Braves and Astros the last few years, so there's no reason to believe it could possibly work out.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Yeah, and we've seen how horribly the whole "dump salary, sign middling players, stockpile 'prospects'" strategy has worked out for teams like the Twins and Cubs and Braves and Astros the last few years, so there's no reason to believe it could possibly work out.

The dumps only work when you actually get something in return for the dumped players. Not junk.

So when the Blue Jays management accepts junk in return for players you can forgive me if I don’t take them seriously.

 

[RoadWarrior]

What would you have done the last two years

How about not making horrendous trades.

Bottom line is that if you can’t get anything of value in return for useful players then you keep the player until his contract runs out. Making trades for the sake of making trades is not smart.

None of the prospects they’ve traded for show any signs of becoming regulars in the league.

It works even better when you don’t overpay guys like Grichuk who only shows up when the games don’t matter.

Freddy Galvis was one of the few decent signings they’ve made.

Considering their window is about 5 years with the young core these trends need to change fast.

Pitching and defense need huge upgrades.

 

[Discoverer]

The dumps only work when you actually get something in return for the dumped players. Not junk.

So when the Blue Jays management accepts junk in return for players you can forgive me if I don’t take them seriously.

Like when Atlanta got that huge haul for trading their best asset in Andrelton Simmons? Or when the Twins kickstarted the rebuild during their stretch of 90-loss seasons by trading Morneau and Mauer and Dozier for big prospect packages?

Most of those teams didn't get good by making big, splashy trades. They all botched a ton of trades along the way, some for their most valuable assets, while holding onto some players until their value was nothing. What they do have in common is that they all build primarily by signing IFAs, drafting, and developing, and making a few shrewd, mostly under-the-radar pickups along the way.

 

[AllDay28]

How about not making horrendous trades.

Bottom line is that if you can’t get anything of value in return for useful players then you keep the player until his contract runs out. Making trades for the sake of making trades is not smart.

None of the prospects they’ve traded for show any signs of becoming regulars in the league.

It works even better when you don’t overpay guys like Grichuk who only shows up when the games don’t matter.

Freddy Galvis was one of the few decent signings they’ve made.

Considering their window is about 5 years with the young core these trends need to change fast.

Pitching and defense need huge upgrades.

ya man if Jays don’t win in 5 vladdy will be 25 and the run will be over.

 

[RoadWarrior]

ya man if Jays don’t win in 5 vladdy will be 25 and the run will be over.

The run is over when Bo and Vladdy become UFA's.

 

[rojac]

What will happen will happen.

The Jays might spend a lot of money in the offseason; they might not. Heck, maybe they decide it's better to trade Vlad and Bo. Probably not, but it's a possibility.

This rebuild might amount to something; it might not.

Rogers might decide to sell the team to someone who moves it out of Toronto; they might not.

These (among myriad others) are all possibilities that I can see happening. So, I see no reason to be surprised or disappointed if any of them come to pass.

 

[LaPlante94]

Do we have a realistic shot at Cole? Would he consider coming here? I know he was a huge Yankees fan so I kinda feel like he'll go there. Also, would Rogers throw that kid of money at him?

 

[hoc123]

Do we have a realistic shot at Cole? Would he consider coming here? I know he was a huge Yankees fan so I kinda feel like he'll go there. Also, would Rogers throw that kid of money at him?

I think they would if they were convinced next year was the year the Jays would start competing for the playoffs. I don’t think they’ll be comfortable paying Cole that much money unless they were convinced he was the last piece needed, especially since he’ll soon be on the wrong side of 30. Ultimately I think he’s on the market one year to early for the Jays to be really interested in getting him. Of course, I don’t know for sure, if management is convinced he’ll hold up like he is now for at least the next 3-4 years that would likely change their thinking.

 

[Kurtz]

Do we have a realistic shot at Cole? Would he consider coming here? I know he was a huge Yankees fan so I kinda feel like he'll go there. Also, would Rogers throw that kid of money at him?

I don't believe so - his contract will be worth about 200 mil more than the biggest contract that Shatkins has ever given out. Also I think we're still about a year away from even thinking about contending. I think he's destined to go to the Yankees or Angels.

Plus, I think we need to add 2-3 reliable pitchers still, rather than a single ace. I could see us grabbing Keuchel on a short-term deal though.

 

[shortfuze]

The run is over when Bo and Vladdy become UFA's.

Who’s says they will make to UFA?

 

[dredeye]

Guys there are no ufa’s in baseball.

 

[dredeye]

I don't believe so - his contract will be worth about 200 mil more than the biggest contract that Shatkins has ever given out. Also I think we're still about a year away from even thinking about contending. I think he's destined to go to the Yankees or Angels.

Plus, I think we need to add 2-3 reliable pitchers still, rather than a single ace. I could see us grabbing Keuchel on a short-term deal though.

I’m not interested in Keuchel at all tbh. If the jays liked Cole they wouldn’t let one year get in the way of grabbing him. It’s like he’s signing a one year deal. He fills a big hole we have and if he’s the target they will pursue aggressively. I think we’ll be in the tier after him. Odorizzi and Wheeler are who I’m hoping for. Sprinkle is a few relievers and reclamation starters and voila. That could make us competitive. Likely could also use a quality centre fielder. Maybe grab Gardener if possible on a short deal

 

[The Nic]

They're definitely going to spend plenty of money this offseason.

Blah... blah... blah...