TSN: TSN1040 Vancouver: Contract talks with Gallagher have stalled and broken off

[Roadhouse]

Because Gallagher's shot doesn't suck donkey balls. There's a lot more to having a good shot then looking good in a shooting competition but you seem to ignore that.

Gallagher's potential production over the next few years is higher then Anderson's. So the whole potential vs past success is irrelevant.

His shot has deteriorated over the last few years IMO and that's just based on watching the games.

Why is potential vs past success irrelevant? Pretty sure it's the central point of the breakdown in expectations between the two parties.

 

[Sorinth]

At the same time...Brendan Gallagher was one of the players (along with Jeff Petry) who was vocal about how he needed to see legitimate improvement from the team in terms of offseason acquisitions, and that it would weigh heavily with him when it came down to negotiating an extension.

Well...this is the result of improving, means there's a little less cash.

Jeff Petry seemingly understood that for this team to improve, like he publicly requested, it meant he had to leave some money on the table in his contract extension negotiations.

Brendan Gallagher will have to come to the same reflection.

Or he'll be gone

As far as I'm aware (Haven't followed all that closely) the problem seems to stem from contract length and not money per year.

Also I can easily argue spending 8m on a backup and bottom pairing D-man isn't "legitimate improvement" from the team.

 

[WeThreeKings]

 

[LaP]

And yup. While I believe Gallagher is the better player here, if we take out emotions and just look at it rationally, it's hard to see a world in which Toffoli is getting paid 4.25M a year and Gallagher 7M a year. Toffoli is no slouch either as far as intangibles go. He's a threat on the PP and plays the PK on a regular shift, too.

Tuffoli got this contract because of how average he was the last 2 seasons for LA. Like i often said CH fans like to live in the past. A good GM live in the present. Unless Gallagher fails to deliver this season he'll be paid a good millions more than Tuffoli easily.

Last 2 season :

Gallagher 141GP 55G 95P (average of 32G 55P every 82 games)

Tuffoli 150GP 37G 78P (average of 20G 43P every 82 games)

And this includes the wake up call Tuffoli got after being traded. He got 6 goals and 10P in only 10 games for the nucks but in playoffs he was kind of back to his last 3 seasons pace. Tuffoli has not been looking great for a while now and the sample size is not small either. GM were probably scared. Unless Gallagher falls down a horse he'll get his 5-5.5 millions.

 

[Sorinth]

His shot has deteriorated over the last few years IMO and that's just based on watching the games.

Why is potential vs past success irrelevant? Pretty sure it's the central point of the breakdown in expectations between the two parties.

It's irrelevant because Gallagher has a higher potential anyways.

As for his shot deteriorating, how do you explain him setting career highs for goals (Both in # and gpg) over the past few years?

 

[417]

As far as I'm aware (Haven't followed all that closely) the problem seems to stem from contract length and not money per year.

Also I can easily argue spending 8m on a backup and bottom pairing D-man isn't "legitimate improvement" from the team.

Is that all the Habs did this offseason?

 

[Kents polished head]

Tuffoli got this contract because of how average he was the last 2 seasons for LA. Like i often said CH fans like to live in the past. A good GM live in the present. Unless Gallagher fails to deliver this season he'll be paid a good millions more than Tuffoli easily.

Last 2 season :

Gallagher 141GP 55G 95P (average of 32G 55P every 82 games)

Tuffoli 150GP 37G 78P (average of 20G 43P every 82 games)

And this includes the wake up call Tuffoli got after being traded. He got 6 goals and 10P in only 10 games for the nucks but in playoffs he was kind of back to his last 3 seasons pace. Tuffoli has not been looking great for a while now and the sample size is not small either. GM were probably scared. Unless Gallagher falls down a horse he'll get his 5-5.5 millions.

I never said Gallagher was a lesser player. I know he's a better player than Toffoli.

What I'm saying is that he's not such a better player that he would deserve 2.75M more than Toffoli gets. And I certainly hope it's not what he's looking for.

I'm also pretty sure Bergevin was pretty vocal about making him our highest paid forward. So I don't think he's offering less than 5.5M. Even Friedman on his 34 thoughts blog said Bergevin was offering something similar to what Anderson got. Which I wouldn't be complaining about.

But if he's asking whatever Anders Lee got last summer, which is 7 years and 49 millions, let's forget this right away.

 

[Natey]

Might as well try to trade some players like now. Will be even harder next year.

 

[Sorinth]

Is that all the Habs did this offseason?

No but the argument that a player should take a discount to enable the team to spend the money and become better is premised on the fact that you don't take the money from that discount and waste it on not making the team better.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I never said Gallagher was a lesser player. I know he's a better player than Toffoli.

What I'm saying is that he's not such a better player that he would deserve 2.75M more than Toffoli gets. And I certainly hope it's not what he's looking for.

Toffoli isn't the only comparable. Anderson makes the same money and scored 1 goal last year. He's massively better than Drouin who also makes 5.5M. Toffoli took less because it's a tight market and he didn't want to be left without a seat after the Hall/Toffoli/Hoffman/Dadonov musical chairs ended, I don't think that's the same situation as extending a core player from within where you are not suddenly being faced with a flat cap situation, this year there's time to make things work.

I realize there's supply and demand difference with Anderson and so on but Drouin really makes this tough. Pretty hard to sit there across from Gallagher and argue he's only worth 250k more than the defensive black hole who gets 3 minutes a night on the PP and barely scrapes together 50 points in the softest minutes on the team while Gallagher is scoring 30 goals a year with most at even strength.

Caveat here is that I don't actually have a problem with moving on because I think it's unrealistic to expect him to take 5.5M long term and I agree with you that something like a Lee/Kreider/JVR contract would be a bad decision for the Habs. I think Gallagher's absolutely worth that kind of contract but it doesn't make sense for Montreal anymore. I have concerns about his longevity given his style of play and he doesn't have high end hands/passing to fall back on, and it basically locks us in to this core which still lacks game breaking talent.

I just don't understand this argument that's he's supposed to just suck it up and take insulting Drouin money because the team decided to go finally add secondary scoring but spent way too much on luxury depth players to afford him. It's not even that Toffoli and Anderson make it unaffordable to give him 7, it's everything else they've done and all these little overpays up and down the lineup, plus the entirely wasted 5.5M on Drouin.

 

[417]

No but the argument that a player should take a discount to enable the team to spend the money and become better is premised on the fact that you don't take the money from that discount and waste it on not making the team better.

Who said Gallagher should take a discount?

What I said was that Gallagher himself, was very vocal about wanting to see a commitment from management that they were going to do all it took to win, in order for him to consider signing an extension here. He made it a point, to publicly state this at the end of the year when asked about his pending UFA status.

As far as not making the team better...only time will tell.

 

[Gael]

Interesting situation... We're jammed on the right side and Caufield is comin up. I'd be down to trade Gallagher for a top 6 LW... Ehlers would be nice

 

[417]

There's nothing that says Bergevin HAS to keep all his UFAs...so is it really a struggle?

I guess that depends on how you see it.

I see it as an opportunity.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

There's nothing that says Bergevin HAS to keep all his UFAs...so is it really a struggle?

I guess that depends on how you see it.

I see it as an opportunity.

Vancouver agrees with you. That's why Toffoli is here.

 

[Kents polished head]

Toffoli isn't the only comparable. Anderson makes the same money and scored 1 goal last year. He's massively better than Drouin who also makes 5.5M. Toffoli took less because it's a tight market and he didn't want to be left without a seat after the Hall/Toffoli/Hoffman/Dadonov musical chairs ended, I don't think that's the same situation as extending a core player from within where you are not suddenly being faced with a flat cap situation, this year there's time to make things work.

I realize there's supply and demand difference with Anderson and so on but Drouin really makes this tough. Pretty hard to sit there across from Gallagher and argue he's only worth 250k more than the defensive black hole who gets 3 minutes a night on the PP and barely scrapes together 50 points in the softest minutes on the team while Gallagher is scoring 30 goals a year with most at even strength.

Caveat here is that I don't actually have a problem with moving on because I think it's unrealistic to expect him to take 5.5M long term and I agree with you that something like a Lee/Kreider/JVR contract would be a bad decision for the Habs. I think Gallagher's absolutely worth that kind of contract but it doesn't make sense for Montreal anymore. I have concerns about his longevity given his style of play and he doesn't have high end hands/passing to fall back on, and it basically locks us in to this core which still lacks game breaking talent.

I just don't understand this argument that's he's supposed to just suck it up and take insulting Drouin money because the team decided to go finally add secondary scoring but spent way too much on luxury depth players to afford him. It's not even that Toffoli and Anderson make it unaffordable to give him 7, it's everything else they've done and all these little overpays up and down the lineup, plus the entirely wasted 5.5M on Drouin.

"Insulting Drouin money" would make him our highest paid forward. What are people the Habs to do expecting exactly? Pay up to 7M for a banged up 50 points scorer? Because his feelings were hurt?

For the record, I said I would be ready to go to 4 x 6.5M for Gallagher. And I think it's already grossly overpaid.

 

[Redux91]

Lol Hardly, Two above average 3rd liners arent going to make or break this team.

And bergevin is finally realizing that, if people think hes SWEATING about what the hell hes gonna do about tatar danault and gallagher, I dont think he is fretting not even a little.

They are good problems to have, and easy problems to have, the hard stuff is getting people like anderson and toffoli, the easy stuff is what to do with the players you couldnt win with.

Im more than a little surprised people are still obsessed with the tatar danault and gallagher line, they had their fun it was a good couple of years, but its not REALLY a 1st line who are we trying to kid here, its no secret the team was starting to look a little better when we separated them in the playoffs

Ideally you keep Danault at a reasonable price and have him as a top 9 Center
But I could care less about Tatar and Gallagher right now, whatever happens happens

 

[Zorba]

There's nothing that says Bergevin HAS to keep all his UFAs...so is it really a struggle?

I guess that depends on how you see it.

I see it as an opportunity.

Tatar is gone for sure
Now it’s up to Danault and Gallagher If they want to stay. I’m assuming Bergevin is slotting in the max 11 million to keep both

 

[Zorba]

Lol Hardly, Two above average 3rd liners arent going to make or break this team.

And bergevin is finally realizing that, if people think hes SWEATING about what the hell hes gonna do about tatar danault and gallagher, I dont think he is fretting not even a little.

They are good problems to have, and easy problems to have, the hard stuff is getting people like anderson and toffoli, the easy stuff is what to do with the players you couldnt win with.

Im more than a little surprised people are still obsessed with the tatar danault and gallagher line, they had their fun it was a good couple of years, but its not REALLY a 1st line who are we trying to kid here, its no secret the team was starting to look a little better when we separated them in the playoffs

Ideally you keep Danault at a reasonable price and have him as a top 9 Center
But I could care less about Tatar and Gallagher right now, whatever happens happens

Danault has to realize that he’s not gonna make more than 5 million and that might be generous

 

[417]

Vancouver agrees with you. That's why Toffoli is here.

Can't keep everyone...just the way it goes.

 

[Natey]

There's nothing that says Bergevin HAS to keep all his UFAs...so is it really a struggle?

I guess that depends on how you see it.

I see it as an opportunity.

No, but if he signs then both that's $12Mish leaving us with 9 million for 6 more spots. Which also means Lehkonen and Armia are probably gone.

And also Suzuki and Romanov will be up for extension the next year.

 

[1000eeer]

Would you do:

(VAN) Virtanen + Podkolzin + first round pick 2021 <-> (Mtl) Gallagher

 

[Natey]

Can't keep everyone...just the way it goes.

No you can't. But if we lose a bunch a good players ... are we really any better? lol

 

[Sorinth]

Who said Gallagher should take a discount?

What I said was that Gallagher himself, was very vocal about wanting to see a commitment from management that they were going to do all it took to win, in order for him to consider signing an extension here. He made it a point, to publicly state this at the end of the year when asked about his pending UFA status.

As far as not making the team better...only time will tell.

When you said the result of us improving is less cash for Gallagher.

 

[417]

No, but if he signs then both that's $12Mish leaving us with 9 million for 6 more spots. Which also means Lehkonen and Armia are probably gone.

And also Suzuki and Romanov will be up for extension the next year.

Lehkonen is a RFA and if Armia is gone, he's gone...you can't keep everyone.

Plus we should see Cole Caufield on the team sometime in the next 18 months or so

 

[417]

When you said the result of us improving is less cash for Gallagher.

But i'm not saying he HAS to take a discount. I'm all for players going after their money. More power to them.

I'm just saying, he was vocal about the Habs improving their roster...well there's a cost to that.