Proposal: Trouba Mega-Thread Part III

[North]

No....I said it was dumb to say the Jets don't lose anything by letting Trouba sit.

Of course they do...they lose Trouba! And instead, whoever their #7 Dman is, is now playing in their top 6.

So again, to say that the Jets lose nothing by Trouba sitting out is wrong...they lose Trouba. Understand?

Do you understand they already lost Trouba?

 

[North]

I think it hurts Trouba more, but don't kid yourself the Jets leverage does diminish when it is clear he won't even consider coming to play for them again in terms of outright actually sitting out an entire season to his own detriment. Again it hurts Trouba more in my opinion, but at that point your asset has taken a hit too.

Right now, that asset hasn't taken a hit though, so the Jets can afford to wait for the deal that works for them.

 

[ffh]

So wait, you think this entire situation is organized by Overhardt? What do I have wrong?

He wants out it has nothing to do with usage. Just be a man trouba and say it. He was 35 last 3 years in toi in all of nhl. No one his age or younger has played more minutes. He is not being held back . Agent was asked would trouba stay if buff or myers were not here and he didnt answer. The big thing is he wants a trade and wants to dictate where. Since any gm would ask overhardt would he except a trade there before they negotiate he could veto any trade if he didnt want to go.Why should he have ufa status after 3 years. Force him to sign then have 29 teams you can trade him to. What if he only has 5 teams he wants to go to. Should at the very least winnipeg have the right to trade a 22 year old rfa to all 29 teams.

 

[Gnova]

Do you understand they already lost Trouba?

They Jets haven't lost Trouba. At the moment he is playing nowhere else in the NHL for at least the next four years except in Winnipeg.
If he chooses to take a huge pay cut and play in Europe go for it. That will do loads for his "brand" and developing his "full potential" as a player.

The worst worst case scenario is that It would cost the Jets a top player and Trouba 10's of millions of dollars over his entire playing career. Before you scoff at that think of what he would make as a UFA coming out of europe after not playing in the NHL for 5 years compared to how he is expected to grow in the NHL.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Right now, that asset hasn't taken a hit though, so the Jets can afford to wait for the deal that works for them.

Agree, was just pointing out December 1st isn't really ideal for the Jets either.

 

[Stej]

Ok, and I was asking a legitimate question to be honest.

I kinda see what your getting at, given that like you said Winnipeg isn't a highly desirable destination for players, they can't let it be perceived that young players that don't want to play in Winnipeg can simply demand a trade at the conclusion of their ELC and they will be quickly accommodated. Allow one or two guys to easily do it, set the precident, and before you know it Winnipeg has become the NHL version of a farm team, developing top players for everyone else. Makes sense now. Appreciate the answer.

And just my opinion, but I believe Chevy gets fair offers between now and Dec. 1 to move Trouba. I don't see him needing to take a haircut on the return at all.

But a fair and reasonable offer doesn't mean he's getting his exact asking price of a Trouba-like LD. I think Chevy is aiming high right now, as he should, he has time to do so. I think he'd be foolish to play his hand before the season starts and not let the first 15-20 games play out for the Jets and the Trouba suitors.

I'm with you. Chevy might not get exactly what he's asking for, but it's his job to get as close as he can to what he deems to be fair value.

 

[Lempo]

I just find it funny....if a team doesn't want a player, there is no issue in trading him. But if a player asks to be trade, it's awful!

Yeah but there is the context of the CBA where the rights of the team and the player are agreed on. When a player signs himself into a team he also signs himself into NHL on the whole, and its rules concerning Salary Cap and contract transferability and player rights Drafting system and whatelse they have cooked up in trying to ensure competitive league.

Player asking for a trade is an anomaly in the context of this kind of setup, and it's the sort of privilegous treatment that the league can't take if it gets too out of hands with too many players. Essentially a team is in most cases asked to give up an asset with less than going price, to the detriment of the team compared to others. Though not currently under a contract, Trouba is looking for to be signed into an NHL team of his own liking while under the RFA status, so he is well within the scope (and seriously rocking the boat) of how things are supposed to go according to the CBA.

I understand that trade requests are taken graciously and heeded if there is for example a solid pressing family reason behind it. It's only humane and the GMs of the giving and receiving teams maybe can even easily agree to make it an even and fair trade so that no one loses in facilitating for it. But this here is not one of those cases, and Trouba isn't helping his case by giving a reason that many folks see as more of an excuse to hide the real reason.

 

[93LEAFS]

Yeah but there is the context of the CBA where the rights of the team and the player are agreed on. When a player signs himself into a team he also signs himself into NHL on the whole, and its rules concerning Salary Cap and contract transferability and player rights Drafting system and whatelse they have cooked up in trying to ensure competitive league.

Player asking for a trade is an anomaly in the context of this kind of setup, and it's the sort of privilegous treatment that the league can't take if it gets too out of hands with too many players. Essentially a team is in most cases asked to give up an asset with less than going price, to the detriment of the team compared to others. Though not currently under a contract, Trouba is looking for to be signed into an NHL team of his own liking while under the RFA status, so he is well within the scope (and seriously rocking the boat) of how things are supposed to go according to the CBA.

I understand that trade requests are taken graciously and heeded if there is for example a solid pressing family reason behind it. It's only humane and the GMs of the giving and receiving teams maybe can even easily agree to make it an even and fair trade so that no one loses in facilitating for it. But this here is not one of those cases, and Trouba isn't helping his case by giving a reason that many folks see as more of an excuse to hide the real reason.

Dougie Hamilton did a very similar thing a year ago, it just never got out til after the trade. The CBA is a balancing act, if a player if unhappy at the end of his ELC, this is his way of forcing his way out of that situation. Sucks for Jets fans, but these things will happen. Now they can test Trouba's resolve, but it isn't good for anyone if this goes past December 1st. I don't see his value rising next off-season after wasting a key year of development. The only way it might work is that it opens more trading partners, but its a very serious risk.

Trouba had to come out at some point soon and state his intentions. He's given the Jets a long-time to work something out without it going public.

 

[Maukkis]

Dougie Hamilton did a very similar thing a year ago, it just never got out til after the trade. The CBA is a balancing act, if a player if unhappy at the end of his ELC, this is his way of forcing his way out of that situation. Sucks for Jets fans, but these things will happen. Now they can test Trouba's resolve, but it isn't good for anyone if this goes past December 1st. I don't see his value rising next off-season after wasting a key year of development. The only way it might work is that it opens more trading partners, but its a very serious risk.

Trouba had to come out at some point soon and state his intentions. He's given the Jets a long-time to work something out without it going public.

I agree. The mindset of the management should be "Trouba is a lost cause, he's now a trading asset and not a part of the team". Chevy, as a GM, has to explore every option to solve the issue, one of which is letting Trouba rot for the season and trying to find another way of replacing him. Sending a message to all the youngsters in the team would also be beneficial, but not ideal.

 

[93LEAFS]

I agree. The mindset of the management should be "Trouba is a lost cause, he's now a trading asset and not a part of the team". Chevy, as a GM, has to explore every option to solve the issue, one of which is letting Trouba rot for the season and trying to find another way of replacing him. Sending a message to all the youngsters in the team would also be beneficial, but not ideal.

I don't think those messages last very long. Ottawa were difficult with Yashin, and it didn't stop Heatley from throwing a hissy fit. These guys aren't going to respond to the stick method, you just have to hope the want to stay and commit long-term. Laine, Connor, etc, should want to stay because they want to stay. I doubt how they deal with Trouba will factor in at that point. Now the point is just getting maximum value, I don't think this creating a culture fear (which I don't think will even be effective) is an upside to losing value on him.

Just point to Wheeler and Buf being happy there, and hope they create a culture that makes people want to stay.

 

[Lempo]

Dougie Hamilton did a very similar thing a year ago, it just never got out til after the trade. The CBA is a balancing act, if a player if unhappy at the end of his ELC, this is his way of forcing his way out of that situation. Sucks for Jets fans, but these things will happen. Now they can test Trouba's resolve, but it isn't good for anyone if this goes past December 1st. I don't see his value rising next off-season after wasting a key year of development. The only way it might work is that it opens more trading partners, but its a very serious risk.

Trouba had to come out at some point soon and state his intentions. He's given the Jets a long-time to work something out without it going public.

No argument with any of that, though obviously the actual options for him that are solely up to him are either to be signed on by the Jets (or signing an offer sheet if someone offers one) or find another league to play in. Anything else is, by the word, forcing. Not that there's anything wrong in it as such, but he can't expect much support from anyone.

I don't think he actually has stated his intentions yet; he's publicly requested a trade, but there are quite huge questionmarks up in the air if his agent is poisoning the possible trades that would be to an unwanted team behind Jets' backs. We are at this point only speculating where he would agree to sign to, and his not agreeing to sign on to play in Jets has only been reported unofficially.

It is of course possible that things aren't quite so antagonistic behind the scenes, because if his camp made it public that only team A, B, C or D are to his liking, that would hinder Jets' negotiation position for the trade and thusly the salvageable fetching price considerably. Of course, that could possibly make a trade less likely too, which would be bad to Trouba.

Trouba's given reason of wanting to be played on the right side might even work for the benefit of Winnipeg's trading attempts as a smokescreen, if someone went and bought it, because the list of the acceptable teams for Trouba's camp would look different and it wouldn't be so "take it or leave it" thing for the Jets' possible trade partner.

 

[Lempo]

Laine, Connor, etc, should want to stay because they want to stay.

Yeah I hate that people keep dropping this one particular guy's name with this matter at hand. They did have one ok Finnish winger back in the day in the Peg you know, and they practically had to carry him away from there when he was traded.

Last season that guy was advertising PVC tarp halls on his jersey; I'd say it's big enough market for him.

 

[gwh]

He's getting traded?

Trouba is not getting traded. The whole trade forcing Overhardt to see the league valuation of Trouba.

Jets is showing Overhardt that there is no team that

a) pays Trouba his ask

b) trades Trouba for any of the comparables Overhardt is using.

 

[Talisman]

Trouba to Penguins

Puoliot to Jets?.

anyona??

 

[member 147413]

Would love Trouba in Toronto but it's not going to happen. I think the Leafs have the pieces to acquire him without handicapping the team, however they're simply not going to pay him more than Rielly. Why bring him in and pay an inferior player more? It just doesn't make sense

 

[larmex99]

Trouba to Penguins

Puoliot to Jets?.

anyona??

Not close to Trouba. The main piece will have to be in Trouba's general category. Won't help the Jets.

 

[Pongs21]

I'm personally fine having the Jets sit on this and see how it plays out, regardless if he's played his last game with the Jets, he is still a very valuable asset and there is no sense trading him just to accommodate his request and taking whatever back just because.. The Jets have done a great job re-stocking the prospect pool, so much to a degree that at this point Chevy can afford to stick to his ask, and I really hope he does. The Jets are a new team, and need to make an example to its players, its fans and the rest of the league that they won't be pushed over by an entitled 22 yo player coming off his ELC and bully agent. Where Trouba apparently appears to be sooo concerned about his development, I highly doubt he sits the year out, and will be signed by or before Dec 1st if Chevy does not get what he wants in return.
Does it suck to loose Trouba? Of course, however fans of other teams may not be aware, we have a 21 year old former 13th ovr pick from the 2013 Draft, Josh Morrissey (LHD) who looks to be ready to step in this year, and depending on his play may soften the blow of Trouba not playing. Depending on his play, he may even afford Chevy to become more flexible in what he is looking for in return for Trouba. I see this playing out similar to Drouin or Hammonic, but perhaps without the happy ending. Either way, Trouba will not be traded for pennies on the dollar.

 

[Whileee]

Here's a twist - Anaheim gets both Lindholm and Trouba, setting up a wicked top-4.

To Anaheim: Trouba, Chiarot, Dano, Hutchinson

To Winnipeg: Theodore, Rakell, Montour / Larsson, Depres, Bernier

Dano is an NHL-ready forward on ELC.

Anaheim top-4..

Lindholm-Trouba
Fowler-Vatanen

Anaheim has cap-space to spare.

 

[Psuhockey]

Sure, go play in the KHL, he still is under the Jets control.

The Jets can afford to wait for the right deal, but can Trouba?

Well how important is it that Winnipeg makes the playoffs this season?

If the losses pile up because of the defense, it would be pretty poor asset management to let Trouba sit if he could bring in a reasonable deal that would help the blue line.

So this really will be a game of chicken if the Jets faulter. Unless nobody cares about making the playoffs and Chevy can let Trouba rot.

 

[Maukkis]

Well how important is it that Winnipeg makes the playoffs this season?

If the losses pile up because of the defense, it would be pretty poor asset management to let Trouba sit if he could bring in a reasonable deal that would help the blue line.

So this really will be a game of chicken if the Jets faulter. Unless nobody cares about making the playoffs and Chevy can let Trouba rot.

Most of us don't expect a playoff spot this season, even if we had Trouba. The central is stacked, and we would be leaning on our rookies way too much. The playoff contention starts when the important rookies show that they can contribute, and other teams in our division are probably starting to either get hit by a cap crunch or see their window shutting down.

 

[SI]

I'll pitch up a trade For Trouba

DeHaan (a 2nd pairing), Pulock (young potential top 4) and Bailey (to offset $)

Not the ideal return but here the jets get some future in a Manitoba boy and get a steady LHD to play with BUFF.

 

[ffh]

Most of us don't expect a playoff spot this season, even if we had Trouba. The central is stacked, and we would be leaning on our rookies way too much. The playoff contention starts when the important rookies show that they can contribute, and other teams in our division are probably starting to either get hit by a cap crunch or see their window shutting down.

speak for yourself many expect them to compete for playoff spot with or without trouba

 

[lomiller1]

I find it funny all the hate on Overhardt. Has he feuded with the Jets before? At the end of the day Overhardt is hired by Trouba (and possibly like minded clients) to get them what they want. Easy guy to hate, but its not like Trouba (and potentially his family) aren't dictating the situation.

For whatever reasons, Trouba wants out which sucks. But thats on him and not his agent. He's also not going beyond his collectively bargained rights. While I don't fully believe it is based on positional aspects, he has every right within the CBA to do what he is doing. This isn't a punk move like Radulov leaving an active contract or Yashin holding out for a year while under contract.

Button's rant on Winnipeg TSN radio was hilarious though, just completely ignoring it from a player perspective. Trouba thinks that how the Jets are planning to use him will hurt his value long-term, he and his representatives have every right to protect his interests.

Why do you even care? It's not like he'd be willing to play in Toronto either. I'd think you'd be more worrying about Matthews trying the same thing in 3 years when he wants to go play in Arizona.

 

[snake schneibler]

I agree with some on here saying that, we are fine without him(albeit better with him). Morrissey can be sheltered on the 3rd line to help his development, Chairot played well with Buff when they were paired together. NTM we have a extremely deep prospect pool if we want to trade for an LHD after the expansion draft.(or for an exempt LHD before). this is before we even get a return for Trouba. If this occurs then we don't have to restrict ourselves to a LHD trade and take best offer possible. Also, I believe if Trouba sits the year, we wouldn't have to protect him in the expansion draft because he is without a contract.....is that true? If so.....sit down Troubs, so management can show others what it's like to negotiate like this in the Peg!

 

[gwh]

Overhardt is on this board every single year for a camp holdout. Every year this guy forces a big blowout.

Good agent is never seen. Things work for the player and for the team.