Player Discussion Trevor Zegras : Part III

[WhatTheDuck]

Worth noting that he's only sitting at -2 on the season (in 30 games) despite the slow start in production, compared to -24 in 81 games last year and -21 in 75 games the year prior. Can't say for sure how it would have turned out over a full season, but that's only a "pace" of -5 or -6 over 82 games, a huge improvement. Had he been healthy enough this season for his production to normalize (as we are seeing right now), he very well may have been a plus player this year, and still actually has a chance to do so. Some of that can be attributed to the Ducks being a fair bit better defensively overall, but Z has clearly made a big improvement to his individual defensive game. He can put it all together next year and hit 70+ points for the first time, I have zero doubt.

 

[Mr Rogers]

There were some times earlier in the year when he was in and and out of the lineup and not playing that well where I thought well maybe Zegs will ride shotgun slightly to Leo, Minty, Mctavish in the future - be an important player but not as essential.

He’s really turned it up of late and I don’t think that looks accurate anymore. Despite his improvement defensively, I think it’s important still for the coaching staff to not push him too far in that direction. I don’t think the goal should be for him to be absolutely perfect defensively.

 

[Leonardo87]

This team is night and day without him. When him and Leo were both out it wasn’t even worth watching them. He is producing like his old self and I’m actually sad to see the season end because of how awesome Zegras looks.

I said in the GDT if Z is traded, Verbeek needs to be fired. I don’t even care at this point what the trade return would be…..um unless it’s McDavid then maybe would be ok. lol

We still are not winning games but at least we are more competitive. Not his fault coaching staff is clueless most of the time and we don’t have the depth .

 

[JAHV]

Zegras will always be bad at defense. He just has no clue where to be most of the time. It's not in his nature or mindset. I've seen him just floating in the middle of the ice in the d-zone while offensive players move around with impunity.

However, effort gets you a long way on that side of the puck, and his has definitely improved. I think he's bought into the notion that working hard on defense gets him the puck back, which is what he wants. He'll never be a penalty killer, but he can wrestle that side of the ice to a draw if he continues to be willing to get involved.

 

[Vinegar Strokes]

Zegras will always be bad at defense. He just has no clue where to be most of the time. It's not in his nature or mindset. I've seen him just floating in the middle of the ice in the d-zone while offensive players move around with impunity.

However, effort gets you a long way on that side of the puck, and his has definitely improved. I think he's bought into the notion that working hard on defense gets him the puck back, which is what he wants. He'll never be a penalty killer, but he can wrestle that side of the ice to a draw if he continues to be willing to get involved.

I mostly agree but would amend this slightly. I think the blanket statement of, "Zegras will always be bad at defense" is inaccruate. Zegras is already a good active defender in the offensive zone and neutral zone when in transition. He's good at stripping pucks and getting in passing lanes. Where he struggles is positionally, in the neutral zone and defensive zone when theteams are set. He's too adhd to be patient, read the play, and be in the right position, so he loses his man or leaves holes in coverage.

I actually think he could be a decent PK option on a highly aggressive PK, which I would prefer we play.

 

[HanSolo]

Yeah I think saying he'll always be bad at defense is an enormous exaggeration. At this point I'd qualify him as a bit below average but I certainly wouldn't say he's bad. He'll continue honing his two-way game over time and it'll probably settle out at just fine. We don't need him to be the next Patrice Bergeron. Not being a guy you'd rely on to shut down top offenses doesn't make one bad; ability evaluation isn't as black and white as good or bad with nothing beyond or in between.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Zegras won’t be a selke winner, but I think he can be a decent 3 zone player

 

[WhatTheDuck]

-2 in his 30 games, in which the team has a -16 goal differential (11-17-2 record). That's an 82 game pace of 30-46-6 and -44.

In 51 games without him, the team is 15-33-3 with a goal differential of -78. That's an 82 game pace of 24-53-5 and -125.

Obviously the team went through some tough spells in there where they were missing a lot more than just Z, but there's still such a notable difference when he's in the lineup, a way more competitive team

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I couldn't find a better place for this so I'll put it here...

Cool 8 minute video of the origin of the Michigan. It's worth a watch.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/sc-featured-the-michigan-the-goal-that-changed-everything~2903740

 

[JAHV]

I know people are falling all over themselves to pump up Zegras. I get it - he's a fun player, he's a good player, this team desperately needs him. I agree with all of that. I don't want Verbeek to trade him.

But in a season where Zegras clearly has made a ton of effort to get better at defense, he's still not anywhere close to good. And he gets all my respect for making that effort. I think the criticisms of him as selfish and lazy are absurd. Cocky and mouthy? Sure. But he's not lazy.

He is good at forechecking, and he can cause some turnovers by sneaking up on guys and stripping pucks. But that's not really what I consider "defense." I'm talking about defending plays through the neutral zone and in the offensive zone. He's not physical, which is fine, but puts him at a disadvantage. And he just doesn't have the patience or instincts or anticipation to play a good positional defensive game.

At some point, these are just traits a player has (or doesn't have), and there's no amount of effort or practice that will get him to be adequate. It's a similar thing with Isac Lundestrom and offense. At this point, it's clear he's not ever going to be above average there.

I think Zegras is an incredibly valuable player who has a huge part to play on the Ducks in future seasons. He's a huge positive on the offensive side, and I think his effort will get him to a place where he's only a small negative on the defensive side. That's a valuable player.

 

[Ducks DVM]

This team is night and day without him. When him and Leo were both out it wasn’t even worth watching them. He is producing like his old self and I’m actually sad to see the season end because of how awesome Zegras looks.

I said in the GDT if Z is traded, Verbeek needs to be fired. I don’t even care at this point what the trade return would be…..um unless it’s McDavid then maybe would be ok. lol

We still are not winning games but at least we are more competitive. Not his fault coaching staff is clueless most of the time and we don’t have the depth .

What about if we got Celebrini - would you trade Zegras + Zellweger for Makar?

I know Colorado wouldn’t, but would you?

 

[Leonardo87]

What about if we got Celebrini - would you trade Zegras + Zellweger for Makar?

I know Colorado wouldn’t, but would you?

Fox > Makar

 

[Rasp]

I wouldnt trade Z even if we got Celebrini. We can just roll with a stacked F and if the guys end up costing too much to fit in the cap we can trade one of them then for a big haul.

We will always be able to find good D so I'm not worried about that.

 

[AngelDuck]

Fox > Makar

Lol nah

 

[Ducks DVM]

Fox > Makar

Your transparent attempt to get Zegras closer to home to see in person is transparent.

 

[Boo Boo]

Fox > Makar

Sorry Leo your O6 fan is showing

 

[70sSanO]

Zegras brings unpredictable playmaking and a way underrated shot. The shot will separate him from other centers.

John

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I know people are falling all over themselves to pump up Zegras. I get it - he's a fun player, he's a good player, this team desperately needs him. I agree with all of that. I don't want Verbeek to trade him.

But in a season where Zegras clearly has made a ton of effort to get better at defense, he's still not anywhere close to good. And he gets all my respect for making that effort. I think the criticisms of him as selfish and lazy are absurd. Cocky and mouthy? Sure. But he's not lazy.

He is good at forechecking, and he can cause some turnovers by sneaking up on guys and stripping pucks. But that's not really what I consider "defense." I'm talking about defending plays through the neutral zone and in the offensive zone. He's not physical, which is fine, but puts him at a disadvantage. And he just doesn't have the patience or instincts or anticipation to play a good positional defensive game.

At some point, these are just traits a player has (or doesn't have), and there's no amount of effort or practice that will get him to be adequate. It's a similar thing with Isac Lundestrom and offense. At this point, it's clear he's not ever going to be above average there.

I think Zegras is an incredibly valuable player who has a huge part to play on the Ducks in future seasons. He's a huge positive on the offensive side, and I think his effort will get him to a place where he's only a small negative on the defensive side. That's a valuable player.

You may be right, or not. But given his age and all the health issues he’s had this year, I’m not ready to write off his ability to improve defensively. Although I am concerned for the development of all the young players with the current staff of coaches we have. That worries me a lot.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I'm hoping that Z picked up a lot of things from Rico. Rico proved you can play sound defense and be a high scorer. Z is probably a better scorer than Rico, but I don't think his defense can be at the same level at Rico's b/c Rico can kill penalties. Although, I do wish Z would become much better at the F/O dot.

 

[JAHV]

You may be right, or not. But given his age and all the health issues he’s had this year, I’m not ready to write off his ability to improve defensively. Although I am concerned for the development of all the young players with the current staff of coaches we have. That worries me a lot.

I think he can improve. I just don't think he'll ever get to being average. He's a one-way player, and that's fine.

 

[DavidBL]

I think he can improve. I just don't think he'll ever get to being average. He's a one-way player, and that's fine.

I'm really not sure I agree. Cogliano rebuilt his entire career around being a defensively responsible forward but was drafted as an offensive guy.

 

[Mr Rogers]

I'm really not sure I agree. Cogliano rebuilt his entire career around being a defensively responsible forward but was drafted as an offensive guy.

I think he’d be an exception and not really the norm. Also Cogs had no choice but to transform his game because his offense wasn’t there at the pro level. So it was kinda out of desperation or else he wouldn’t have had much of a career; not the case with Zegs .

That’s not say Zegs can’t improve defensively - he has but we don’t need him to rebuild himself and I actually hope he doesn’t get anywhere close to doing that.

 

[JAHV]

I'm really not sure I agree. Cogliano rebuilt his entire career around being a defensively responsible forward but was drafted as an offensive guy.

Totally different profiles. Cogliano was always defensively sound; it just turned out his offense didn't translate to the NHL so he was forced to develop what was already there.

Zegras doesn't have defensive acumen, just like some players don't have great vision and others can't develop a pinpoint shot. I believe he's a hard enough worker that he will get the most out of his ability, and hopefully Cronin can help him. But you can't make a marble statue out of a hunk of gold.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I'm really not sure I agree. Cogliano rebuilt his entire career around being a defensively responsible forward but was drafted as an offensive guy.

He was ridiculously dominant offensively in junior A, over two points per game in his draft year (102 points in 49 games). Too fast for Dmen to touch him at that level

 

[Kalv]

Our prince has returned, it seems. He's so fun to watch. Not only because of his skill but his passion as well – yes sometimes it means dumb penalties and I think he's cleaning that part up. But it does seem like he's our clearly best player