Player Discussion Trent Frederic II

[CharasLazyWrister]

Just curious - what UFA contracts are tradable on day one?


There's got to be something they really don't like about Vatrano. They let him go for peanuts when it seemed like he was just what they needed and came cheap.

That’s a good point. Most are not, if any. That’s what a 32 team bidding war gets you.

Hardly worth saying, but I think Fred’s contract would very much remain untradable. Especially if this contract year is any indication of what’s to come.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Bruins tried to get Oliver in the Peeke deal but couldn't convince the Blue Jackets.

Oliver and Vatrano would be my adds this TDL


Vatrano -- Zacha -- Pasta

Marchand -- Lindholm -- Geekie

Frederic -- Coyle -- Brazeau

Beecher -- Kastelic -- Olivier

Are we getting them for free?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Just curious - what UFA contracts are tradable on day one?


There's got to be something they really don't like about Vatrano. They let him go for peanuts when it seemed like he was just what they needed and came cheap.

Bruins signed Vatrano as a free agent

They traded him for a third-round pick because Debrusk & Heinen had arrived.

Florida traded him for a 4th round pick.

Anaheim signed him as a free agent.

Peanuts is all anyone has gotten for him.

 

[Tbaybruin]

Why would anyone do that?

I think he has what some high end reams might want for the playoffs. He was pretty good last year. We could easily pay 1/2 his contract

 

[Hookslide]

Bruins tried to get Oliver in the Peeke deal but couldn't convince the Blue Jackets.

Oliver and Vatrano would be my adds this TDL


Vatrano -- Zacha -- Pasta

Marchand -- Lindholm -- Geekie

Frederic -- Coyle -- Brazeau

Beecher -- Kastelic -- Olivier

Who are you giving up to get those two players ? I am curious, because I have no interest in either one of those players.

 

[Hookslide]

I think he has what some high end reams might want for the playoffs. He was pretty good last year. We could easily pay 1/2 his contract

he was good last year, no other year except one has he gone over 40 points, and he might not do that again this year.

 

[PB37]

Are we getting them for free?

yes

 

[Alan Ryan]

Bruins tried to get Oliver in the Peeke deal but couldn't convince the Blue Jackets.

Oliver and Vatrano would be my adds this TDL


Vatrano -- Zacha -- Pasta

Marchand -- Lindholm -- Geekie

Frederic -- Coyle -- Brazeau

Beecher -- Kastelic -- Olivier

Where would Wahlstrom play?

 

[PB37]

Where would Wahlstrom play?

Coming off the bench in that situation

 

[Dr Hook]

Coming off the bench in that situation

Put Frederic on the bench in that situation and it looks good

 

[UncleRico]

All organizations use analytics but you repel away from those. No one is using plus/minus as any serious evaluation metric, for incredibly obvious reasons.

Teams absolutely use plus/minus what are you talking about

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Teams absolutely use plus/minus what are you talking about

You see, your problem is you gotta follow the logic:

You do know that every single NHL team has a decent sized analytics department right?

No one is using plus/minus as any serious evaluation metric, for incredibly obvious reasons.

and again, plus/minus IS an analytic

 

[UncleRico]

You see, your problem is you gotta follow the logic:

Ahh my bad I didn’t read the goal post moving by him.

 

[BruinDust]

“Mention”

You do know that every single NHL team has a decent sized analytics department right? One of our very own members here works in one of them.

Plus/minus is a stat that the more variables you throw at it, the less value it has.

I don't think it has much value at all when comparing say a player from Team A vs. a player from Team B. They play in front of different goalies, different systems, different teammates, often different opponents, etc. etc.

But when used to compare a player against players on his own team, it still has value as the variables are much more alike.

I don't care what Frederic's plus/minus is compared to players on Chicago or Buffalo. I do think his negative 13 is a reflection of his overall play this season. Fact is, when he's on the ice, him and his line just isn't getting much done offensively. The one thing I'll give him is his line-mates have been a real dogs breakfast so far this year. Basically Charlie Coyle and a rotating cast of players. Frederic with Coyle and Kastelic was easily his best line this year (+2 at EV in approx. 70 minutes).

 

[DominicT]

Goal differential = plus/minus but in all situations.

It comes down to a players contribution to that goal differential, which again, is plus/minus.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Plus/minus is a stat that the more variables you throw at it, the less value it has.

I don't think it has much value at all when comparing say a player from Team A vs. a player from Team B. They play in front of different goalies, different systems, different teammates, often different opponents, etc. etc.

But when used to compare a player against players on his own team, it still has value as the variables are much more alike.

I don't care what Frederic's plus/minus is compared to players on Chicago or Buffalo. I do think his negative 13 is a reflection of his overall play this season. Fact is, when he's on the ice, him and his line just isn't getting much done offensively. The one thing I'll give him is his line-mates have been a real dogs breakfast so far this year. Basically Charlie Coyle and a rotating cast of players. Frederic with Coyle and Kastelic was easily his best line this year (+2 at EV in approx. 70 minutes).

No one is making that kind of comparison here, are they?

 

[BruinDust]

No one is making that kind of comparison here, are they?

Not that I have seen.

 

[Kalus]

I wouldn’t want to see Frederic go, but if he is looking for too much cap and/or term on his next deal, this might be one of those rare times where you can get more value back than you are giving up on a deal because some teams out there will overweight the size/toughness quotient with Frederic and overpay.

 

[danpantz]

I’ve thought Frederic has been expendable for years.

He’s a player built for the playoffs who disappears every year once they come around.

If they can get something for him they should.

 

[Number8]

Right…

So you move on to those “lesser options”.

I just don’t understand what it is about Trent Frederic that is so worth hanging on to. He’s a “power forward” with hardly any power. I would think that when a virtual unknown like Mark Kastelic shows up, plays his ass off every shift, and produces, it becomes obvious that a guy like Fred shouldn’t be thought of as any sort of vital asset. Certainly not one worth many millions over many years.

In my view, the guy went from a hard-working, bottom 6 player putting it all on the line in his first 50 or so games, to kind of a fraud. Again, he can certainly slot into an NHL lineup, but like…3.5 or 4+ million over multiple years. Count me the f*** out. It will be an un-tradable contract from day one.

Absolutely.

Ignore the upcoming UFA contract for a second and just look at the current contract situation.

Mark Kastelic at $1.67M
Trent Frederick at $2.3M

Even if you reversed those numbers so that Kastelic has the higher hit. You'd pick Kastelic every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Not even close.

That's what frustrating about Frederick. Kastelic delivers effort and physicality every single shift. I refuse to believe Frederick can't do the exact same -- but for some unknown reason he does not.

Maybe those concussions he took early in his career have taken a toll? Regardless, I'd trade him and get some assets back.

 

[whatsbruin]

His breakout year is always next year.

 

[Over the volcano]

Absolutely.

Ignore the upcoming UFA contract for a second and just look at the current contract situation.

Mark Kastelic at $1.67M
Trent Frederick at $2.3M

Even if you reversed those numbers so that Kastelic has the higher hit. You'd pick Kastelic every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Not even close.

That's what frustrating about Frederick. Kastelic delivers effort and physicality every single shift. I refuse to believe Frederick can't do the exact same -- but for some unknown reason he does not.

Maybe those concussions he took early in his career have taken a toll? Regardless, I'd trade him and get some assets back.

Who else on the team does anyone in here ever compare to Kastelic for effort and physicality?

The guys been great and could be used to shame the rest of the forwards on the roster but no, just Frederic gets that shade.

I mean I don't think many/any in here could even guess which forward is #3 on the year in hits for this team behind Kastelic and Frederic. Without looking who would you guess an how far back would they be?

 

[UncleRico]

It's a dumb stat for dumb people.

Who else on the team does anyone in here ever compare to Kastelic for effort and physicality?

Every organization uses plus/minus as a raw stat and plus/minus is calculated into a handful of advanced metrics that analytics teams use.

If it’s a dumb stat for dumb people, then every organization in the NHL is dumb on numerous levels.

 

[Over the volcano]

Every organization uses plus/minus as a raw stat and plus/minus is calculated into a handful of advanced metrics that analytics teams use.

If it’s a dumb stat for dumb people, then every organization in the NHL is dumb on numerous levels.

It's right up there with team winning percentage for an individual player.

 

[NDiesel]

His breakout year is always next year.

Is 40 points as a 3rd liner last year not a breakout year? Like what is the expectation from him playing 3rd line mintues? 50 points? 60?