MarchysNoseKnows
Big Hat No Cattle
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All organizations use analytics but you repel away from those. No one is using plus/minus as any serious evaluation metric, for incredibly obvious reasons.
Player Discussion Trent Frederic II
- Thread starter Gee Wally
- Start date
easton117
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2017
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My brain may be stuck in 5 years ago prices. But I have a hard time wrapping my head around paying him more than 3 million per season.
He’s a 3rd line forward. These guys are everywhere.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
I disagree.
Have never heard an NHL coach mention Corsi or Fenwick.
Plus/Minus? Lots of times.
MarchysNoseKnows
Big Hat No Cattle
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“Mention”
You do know that every single NHL team has a decent sized analytics department right? One of our very own members here works in one of them.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
I don't deny that.
But if you are going to give me analytics that say Trent Frederic isn't really as bad as he appears to be to most of us so far this season, I'm not putting much stock in them.
MarchysNoseKnows
Big Hat No Cattle
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I have not posted a single analytic saying anything about Frederic. You keep posting the -13 though (and again, plus/minus IS an analytic).
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
A problem with +/- is that the penalty for being on the ice when somebody makes an egregious error is the same for them as it is you.
Somebody could have most of their +/- drug down by somebody else - and somebody else could cause 4 dudes to have an awful night. Sprinkle in a little pinball luck and somebody looks amazing or horrible when perhaps they’re playing quite average and simply around others screwing up at a high rate.
In Frederic’s case I think you’d look to his zone clears and entries? Places where turnovers occur? I’d wonder if he’s having more trouble there than the league average. That would maybe be a good place to narrow down the reasons for his struggles.
Somebody could have most of their +/- drug down by somebody else - and somebody else could cause 4 dudes to have an awful night. Sprinkle in a little pinball luck and somebody looks amazing or horrible when perhaps they’re playing quite average and simply around others screwing up at a high rate.
In Frederic’s case I think you’d look to his zone clears and entries? Places where turnovers occur? I’d wonder if he’s having more trouble there than the league average. That would maybe be a good place to narrow down the reasons for his struggles.
PlayMakers
Registered User
His line got caved in, 5 shot attempts for, 14 against, 25% at the face-off dot. Their performance is not all on Frederic but not sure Sacco can trot this line out again with those kinds of results.
BruinDust
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
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Turns out Frederic as a center plays the exact same game as Frederic the winger. Un-assertive, constantly chasing the play.
Blowfish
Count down ...
Good grief man give it a rest. The guy won just about ever board battle and made many great plays keeping pucks in.
Your obsession with hating this kid is disturbing
Name one, I need a laugh to start my day
We have been paying one over 5m for what 4 years now and one more to go?
- Jun 14, 2010
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Nope here forever, just for you, like it took generations to get rid of Heinen for me. Then, when you think he is gone, he will resign in two years.
If they move on from Frederic because his contract demands are to high he needs to be replaced by a Jack McBain or Matt Olivier not a Lysell or another lazy, "skilled" player who will produce similar numbers to Frederic but be as inconsistent and softer.
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BruinDust
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- Aug 2, 2005
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Shitting on Trent Frederic is all I have left. If Santa has only one lump of coal to hand out this holiday season, I hope he gives it to Frederic as punishment for his god-awful performance this season.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Didn't look like a good idea to begin with.
Freddy moves to center, Brazeau moves to his off-wing and throw the new guy on with them.
They did get one shot on goal.
Wahlstrom won 3 of 3 faceoffs, so it was only Frederic that was 25% on faceoffs.
CharasLazyWrister
Registered User
definitely not down with “we just don’t have a better option” serving as an argument for why we should sign a player to a long-term commitment.
Sign any player to a long-term commitment and I’d like to see at least some semblance of consistency and proficiency at a given role. Frederic is not that. I’d be willing to talk another one or two year deal or we can explore those lesser options.
Sign any player to a long-term commitment and I’d like to see at least some semblance of consistency and proficiency at a given role. Frederic is not that. I’d be willing to talk another one or two year deal or we can explore those lesser options.
MarchysNoseKnows
Big Hat No Cattle
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Bruins tried to get Oliver in the Peeke deal but couldn't convince the Blue Jackets.
Oliver and Vatrano would be my adds this TDL
Vatrano -- Zacha -- Pasta
Marchand -- Lindholm -- Geekie
Frederic -- Coyle -- Brazeau
Beecher -- Kastelic -- Olivier
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CharasLazyWrister
Registered User
Right…
So you move on to those “lesser options”.
I just don’t understand what it is about Trent Frederic that is so worth hanging on to. He’s a “power forward” with hardly any power. I would think that when a virtual unknown like Mark Kastelic shows up, plays his ass off every shift, and produces, it becomes obvious that a guy like Fred shouldn’t be thought of as any sort of vital asset. Certainly not one worth many millions over many years.
In my view, the guy went from a hard-working, bottom 6 player putting it all on the line in his first 50 or so games, to kind of a fraud. Again, he can certainly slot into an NHL lineup, but like…3.5 or 4+ million over multiple years. Count me the f*** out. It will be an un-tradable contract from day one.
MarchysNoseKnows
Big Hat No Cattle
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I guess I don’t know why his last two years being incredibly effective at 5v5 gets completely thrown out. Some people (like it appears you do from above) consider him a fraud because he wasn’t running around like an idiot any more and instead was producing. Especially for a team who needs complementary scoring. And as has been shown, he does actually fight top fighters in the league.
He’s been pretty ass this year no argument. But throwing him out for Oliver Wahlstrom or Mark Kastelic is very short sighted in my opinion, all assuming his contract demands are not unreasonable of course.
Over the volcano
Registered User
Just curious - what UFA contracts are tradable on day one?
There's got to be something they really don't like about Vatrano. They let him go for peanuts when it seemed like he was just what they needed and came cheap.
MarchysNoseKnows
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CharasLazyWrister
Registered User
Putting up PIM’s is not an inherently bad thing when it goes along with a physical style in a fourth line checking role, especially one in which you’re accruing fighting majors. Though I’m sure there were plenty of unadvisable penalties tossed in there.
He has enough talent to put up points when he’s playing with good players (who also happen to be outperforming their norm) and getting minutes. The problem is so do a lot of other guys. He put up 40 points last year, a career high. Just like other guys on the team last year. That is not and will never be his norm. Essentially, we’re taking about a big contract for a player that will be somewhere around a 15-15 guy for his career IMHO and will show some physicality once every ten games. Are we seriously going to pretend that’s a hard-to-replace asset?
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