Management Travis Green [Head Coach]

[flyingfingers]

These two people are polar opposites in just about every way. If you cant recognize this you are not doing research or paying attention.

In Melnyks case you are confusing passion with a man that was mentally ill that was emotional and reactionary. That operated on a bare bones budget. Who was removed from his board of governors and loathed by almost everyone that worked with him.

I have showed you multiple times that Andlauder has been spending to think its the same is both lazy and uneducated.

See you want more Melnyk based on this post. You want reaction and unlimited spending. Thats not how small market teams have success. Thats what Buffalo did when the PAgnottas took over. Look where that got them. 14 years no playoffs 3 rebuilds.

This group is approaching it methodically. Evaluating what they have before they make any rash decisions. You may not like it but its how they should be approaching it.

I don't want unlimited spending. I understand this team will probably not be a cap team (as it rises to 90, 95, 100M). We'll never compete for the $10-13M player.

Where can we compete? We can higher the highest quality executives and coaches.

While I like Steve Staios, he has zero experience. Why was he handed both the President and GM roles as a rookie executive? While I think Dave Poulin is a great guy, he's never won squat as part of a management group, and his last stint in Toronto was a disaster. And Travis Green is about as unimpressive of a coach as I can think of.

So far, I don't see the quality. Who can you look at and say, "oh yeah, that guy has done it before and knows what he's doing."

Bringing in Berube or McLellan or Julien would have set the tone. Professionalism. Pedigree. Stability. Instead we have another young coach with a poor track record trying to apply lessons he's learned and hoping it works out better this time around.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

How can the hiring of Greene be interpreted as a rebuild move?

I am not interpreting it that way.
I do believe there they are a work in progress both in their play on ice , something JM started to address and we saw some improvement but they are not there yet as JM and Staios both said post season, and as well in roster construction which includes goaltending. Green will demand they pay attention to details and their play without the puck. As I said he wasn't near the top of my list of preferred coaches but I am looking forward to seeing what he can do.

I think we are in much better hands with Andlauer, Staios and Green than the last 3 headed ugly monster of Melnyk, Dorion and DJ

So not a rebuild in the sense of that word. Lets face it... Dorion tried to rush the rebuild with his big acquisitions that cost the team a lot and will again when they move Chychrun. Dorion was no architect. Its like walking into a project that was supposed to be further along.. everyone is clamoring to have it completed.. but there is still a lot of work to do... Those messages often are hard to swallow

 

[bert]

I just went through the 'coaching search continues' thread. @redbrick98 @L'Aveuglette you both said all you want is a coach with NHL experience. They hired one but you both seem to be very unhappy. I guess this wasnt what you guys expected. Its too bad that thread is locked considering this discussion is a continuation. Maybe it will be opened up later.

I am not interpreting it that way.
I do believe there they are a work in progress both in their play on ice , something JM started to address and we saw some improvement but they are not there yet as JM and Staios both said post season, and as well in roster construction which includes goaltending.

So not a rebuild in the sense of that word.

I agree its not a rebuild choice its the next step for what this group is lacking. A non players coach who is very demanding and wants to play heavy hockey.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Travis Green got great goaltending in Vancouver and his team, for the most part, sucked.

First 3 years, average goals against averaged 23rd.
Guess you have a low bar for “great” goaltending, or did you just make that up.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[jbeck5]

Group think is a very real thing. So is looking up stats on hockeydb.

I love hockey and I watch as much as I have time for, which changes at various points of the year. But I can’t sit here and say I can do any type of thorough analysis on all the coaches that have run an NHL bench, and I don’t think most people can.

Getting caught up in what other people think, or thinking that popular opinions are always valid, is silly in any area of life.

Sure, but why do you think so many people think it's a bad hire.... especially Vancouver and NJ fans chiming in?

Have you seen one person that thinks this is a good hire? I'd love to hear their rebuttal to the plethora of complaints.

 

[flyingfingers]

I agree its not a rebuild choice its the next step for what this group is lacking. A non players coach who is very demanding and wants to play heavy hockey.

Interestingly, in his four full seasons in Van, the Canucks were one of the less physical in the league. They ranked 22nd in hits over that span. By comparison, the Senators were 4th.

Teams lacking talent usually try to compensate by being physical. Not the Canucks of those days!

 

[Golden_Jet]

Green is also a player's coach, that plays a fast pace game, but leaves too many opportunities against and thus relies too heavily on his goalie to bail out the team.

By player’s coach , did you mean hard ass.

 

[flyingfingers]

First 3 years, average goals against averaged 23rd.
Guess you have a low bar for “great” goaltending, or did you just make that up.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

GAA? Why would you use that stat.

He never had a starter (whether it was Markstrom or Demko) who put up a less than .912SV%. That's well above league average.

They still allowed a lot of goals because they were getting caved in defensively, especially at 5v5. 32.5 SA/g in his 4 full years, 6th worst in the league (we were 2nd worse at 33.8).

Year 1: Markstrom played 60 games and had a .912SV%
Year 2: Markstrom played 60 games and had a .912SV%
Year 3: Markstrom played 48 games and had a .918SV%
Year 4: Demko played 35 games (out of 56) and had a .915SV%

The Senators would kill to have a starter put up those numbers.

 

[h2]

Sure, but why do you think so many people think it's a bad hire.... especially Vancouver and NJ fans chiming in?

Have you seen one person that thinks this is a good hire? I'd love to hear their rebuttal to the plethora of complaints.

Probably something along the line of "Fan's don't understand!"

I absolutely hate this hire, but I'm going to give it a year to wait and see. It's been almost a decade of darkness, what's one more year.

 

[DrEasy]

How can the hiring of Greene be interpreted as a rebuild move?

Well, every rebuild starts with a teardown phase...

 

[Micklebot]

How can the hiring of Greene be interpreted as a rebuild move?

The way Ferraro was talking it seems like he sees Green as a teacher as opposed to a closer.

We didn't need a coach with a short shelf life that can put us over the top, and I think that is what they were getting at. Both Dregs and Ray seemed to like the hire, but with a young team that doesn't have elite goaltending, you're not getting immediate results.

I do think the goal next year is playoffs, we aren't going to be trading off core players for long term futures, but we also aren't close to competing with the Colorado and Florida's of the league.

 

[JimmyApples]

Staios had other options to hire a coach. He chose Greene. That is wholly on him, unless you want to pass some of the blame to Andlauer for budget or whatever other reasons might exist.

I meant we as in, us fans.

 

[Golden_Jet]

GAA? Why would you use that stat.

He never had a starter (whether it was Markstrom or Demko) who put up a less than .912SV%. That's well above league average.

They still allowed a lot of goals because they were getting caved in defensively, especially at 5v5.

Year 1: Markstrom played 60 games and had a .912SV%
Year 2: Markstrom played 60 games and had a .912SV%
Year 3: Markstrom played 48 games and had a .918SV%
Year 4: Demko played 35 games (out of 56) and had a .915SV%

The Senators would kill to have a starter put up those numbers.

Ok save percentages, since you don’t like goals against.

17/18 ranked 26th
18/19 ranked 15th
19/20 ranked 12th

So an average of 18th, so fair to average.

Great is top 5 for me.

 

[Micklebot]

Sure, but why do you think so many people think it's a bad hire.... especially Vancouver and NJ fans chiming in?

Have you seen one person that thinks this is a good hire? I'd love to hear their rebuttal to the plethora of complaints.

Both Ray and Dreger, Lalji and Corrado, and that beat writer for the Canuck Thomas Drance all seem to like the hire.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think it would be classified more as a re-tool or a reset than a rebuild.

The issue is the runway they have left with Tkachuk and how many more losing seasons he will stomach. That's a variable I don't think anyone can predict, and I don't think trending positively but missing playoffs is going to be enough to satisfy the hunger.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Both Ray and Dreger, Lalji and Corrado, and that beat writer for the Canuck Thomas Drance all seem to like the hire.

How often do you see hockey media personalities crap on new coaching hires?

Almost never is the answer.

 

[SPF6ty9]

Stupid being a Sens fan. Why I inherited this is beyond me.

 

[jbeck5]

Both Ray and Dreger, Lalji and Corrado, and that beat writer for the Canuck Thomas Drance all seem to like the hire.

Yeah, they're media people. They can't exactly come out and call him trash and then ask for an interview in a week.

It's even more hilarious reading all the Facebook comments. Full of NJ fans saying they're so happy and will pay for his Uber ride to the airport.

Most reactions are the laughing face emoticon.

Also many fans simply feeling bad for us.

Don't even see a single "you'll like this guy sens fans, trust me". It's all people pitying us and feeling bad for us having to keep ensuring this garbage.

Why do so many think this is a pitiful hiring?

Why do you think so many people are laughing at the sens here?

Why do you think almost every fan of his ex teams really don't like him?

Like, we would say dj wasn't right for us, and he couldn't take us to the next step, but most people here liked DJ...

But this guy gets no good results AND he isn't liked anywhere he goes.

Why do you think that is??

I thought it was easier to laugh at my team than to expect results....but even with that mentality, this signing is pissing me off more than giving me ammo to make fun of the team (though it definitely is doing that too)

It's just as some point it's like "enough is enough" it's not even funny anymore shitting on this team. It gets sad.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I'm not a fan of this hire but I'm willing to see how it plays out. It's Staios's first really big move as GM/POHO so the track record starts now and I'm going to see how this goes. Of course, not liking the hire, I reserve the right to hate it later on.

But while I may not like the hire (I wasn't a huge fan of the Poulin hire either) this is NOTHING like the Dorion Melnyk era. This management group has added while Dorion and company stripped things to the bare bones. This group has tempered expectations and delivered solid messaging. Dorion delivered hyperbole, bombast and ridiculously rosy prognostications that had no bearing in reality.

Another note on this hire that I'm probably very much in the minority in having: I'm glad we didn't give Berube a blank cheque. IMO, he's a decent coach who caught lightning in a bottle once and has been pretty middle of the road since. I think he'll dine out on that one win and become just another of the long list of decent but not great NHL coaching retreads for the next 15 years.

 

[redbrick98]

I just went through the 'coaching search continues' thread. @redbrick98 @L'Aveuglette you both said all you want is a coach with NHL experience. They hired one but you both seem to be very unhappy. I guess this wasnt what you guys expected. Its too bad that thread is locked considering this discussion is a continuation. Maybe it will be opened up later.


I agree its not a rebuild choice its the next step for what this group is lacking. A non players coach who is very demanding and wants to play heavy hockey.

I don't mind the hire tbh, it's OK. Not a home run but not bad either.

At least he has more NHL experience as a HC than Gruden. And normally 2nd recyclings (nhl coaches on their 2nd NHL jobs are usually better than the 1st go around, which is good.

I just dislike the notion that money is potentially once yet again a major financial roadblock in becoming " Best in Class " yet again, even with New Ownership in place.

And also that the people covering this team will somehow conveniently'forget' to inquire about Travis Green's earnings undermines transparency. It's crucial when $$ is claimed not to be an issue .

 

[flyingfingers]

How often do you see hockey media personalities crap on new coaching hires?

Almost never is the answer.

Especially since much of the Canadian hockey media is made of former players and a lot of coaches are also former players – and most played in the same era.

Green and Ferraro, for example, are good friends away from the rink. Even on Overdrive yesterday, when they mentioned it, they said "Travis Green, great friend of the show." Are they going to follow that up by saying that the Sens will continue to suck with him at the helm?

Everyone is a "good fit" when they're hired.

 

[5ive4Fighting]

 

[Hale The Villain]

Especially since much of the Canadian hockey media is made of former players and a lot of coaches are also former players – and most played in the same era.

Green and Ferraro, for example, are good friends away from the rink. Even on Overdrive yesterday, when they mentioned it, they said "Travis Green, great friend of the show." Are they going to follow that up by saying that the Sens will continue to suck with him at the helm?

Everyone is a "good fit" when they're hired.

The old boys club is very real.

There were some very nice words said about DJ Smith when he was hired here, and I guarantee you if some team actually gave him a second chance like we're doing with Green there would be lots of folks in the hockey media saying similar things - he was never given a fair shake, ownership meddled, the players let him down, etc.... ignoring his numerous flaws that played a major role in this team not only sucking during his tenure but failing to develop and take the next step forward.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Yeah, they're media people. They can't exactly come out and call him trash and then ask for an interview in a week.

It's even more hilarious reading all the Facebook comments. Full of NJ fans saying they're so happy and will pay for his Uber ride to the airport.

Most reactions are the laughing face emoticon.

Also many fans simply feeling bad for us.

Don't even see a single "you'll like this guy sens fans, trust me". It's all people pitying us and feeling bad for us having to keep ensuring this garbage.

Why do so many think this is a pitiful hiring?

Why do you think so many people are laughing at the sens here?

Why do you think almost every fan of his ex teams really don't like him?

Like, we would say dj wasn't right for us, and he couldn't take us to the next step, but most people here liked DJ...

But this guy gets no good results AND he isn't liked anywhere he goes.

Why do you think that is??

I thought it was easier to laugh at my team than to expect results....but even with that mentality, this signing is pissing me off more than giving me ammo to make fun of the team (though it definitely is doing that too)

It's just as some point it's like "enough is enough" it's not even funny anymore shitting on this team. It gets sad.

Paragraphs.

 

[jbeck5]

Paragraphs.

Sorry I tried to isolate each question and never went back to edit structure.

Having separated sentences is much easier to read than run-on sentences or mega paragraphs, so atleast there's that.