Traverse City Prospect Tournament 2018
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My thoughts on the Lias discussions:
- I saw all of his games from the WJSS last season. He started really well and then obviously became more and more tired during the tournament. One of my first comments on him was -- don't count on him making the NHL right away because he must add another gear to his skating. From there it was on to Frölunda's preseason to Traverse to NHL camp, no rest or time to build up his body. It wore on him.
-Early last season the kid was obviously worn out. We blew his development in that sense, we should have been able to figure out that his schedule had been over-full and basically have him return to Sweden or yank him from Traverse or something. Anyway, if you haven't been able to build up the body during the off-season you will get gassed when you hit the ice and when you are gassed you won't have much energy. It was so obvious, I commented on it multiple times. Sometimes he took 20 sec shifts. You could see how he conserved energy to not get caught on the ice defensively.
-This improved during the spring. He could take longer shifts and had more jump.
Ultimately, Lias challenge is two-folded. Firstly, he must have stamina and the physical resources to last all shifts of a hockey game. I think the challenge this pose easily is very very underrated. Hockey isn't digital or a video game. The product on the ice is the result of a bunch of things. Sometimes I see someone look at stats of a kid and draw conclusions of what that will amount to for the coming decades. How do you know what shape that kid is in? Can the kid bring it for 20 sec per shift for two periods before losing his legs or the full game? For many kids its an around the clock work for several years to get to any kind of pro skating shape. EliteProspects have Lias at 5'11 and 205 lbs. There is a reason for why so many of the kids doing well right now are 155-165 lbs instead of 205 lbs. Playing hockey is like running up for stairs. Put two guys next to each other, one fit kid 160 lbs and the other being a fit kid that is 205 lbs and put them on the first level of a big building in NY. I know who I would bet on to reach the top.
Secondly, Lias must improve his skating stride. I don't think this is as bad as some make it out to be. Many look at the two issues mentioned above and combine them and attribute to his stride alone. I think that is an incomplete observation.
We should have no illusions that its possible for a kid like Lias at 5'11 205 lbs to over night "get into shape" and fly on the ice for the duration of a 45 sec shift in the NHL night in and night out at the age of 20. Kids face different challenges, extremely few hockey players are ready to play in the NHL at the age of 19-20. This is part of the physical maturation process for kids. Why did a kid like Mark Schleife make the NHL when he was 22 years and 5 months and not 18-20? Or 21??? He wasn't physically mature enough. 7th overall pick in 2011. Had we drafted him 7th overall, many would have asked his second summer when he was 20 if he had not worked out since he wasn't NHL ready...
So I agree, improving his stride is important for Lias. But more so is giving him time and letting him develop. Its obviously that we are not used to developing kids around the NYR. Patience.
- I saw all of his games from the WJSS last season. He started really well and then obviously became more and more tired during the tournament. One of my first comments on him was -- don't count on him making the NHL right away because he must add another gear to his skating. From there it was on to Frölunda's preseason to Traverse to NHL camp, no rest or time to build up his body. It wore on him.
-Early last season the kid was obviously worn out. We blew his development in that sense, we should have been able to figure out that his schedule had been over-full and basically have him return to Sweden or yank him from Traverse or something. Anyway, if you haven't been able to build up the body during the off-season you will get gassed when you hit the ice and when you are gassed you won't have much energy. It was so obvious, I commented on it multiple times. Sometimes he took 20 sec shifts. You could see how he conserved energy to not get caught on the ice defensively.
-This improved during the spring. He could take longer shifts and had more jump.
Ultimately, Lias challenge is two-folded. Firstly, he must have stamina and the physical resources to last all shifts of a hockey game. I think the challenge this pose easily is very very underrated. Hockey isn't digital or a video game. The product on the ice is the result of a bunch of things. Sometimes I see someone look at stats of a kid and draw conclusions of what that will amount to for the coming decades. How do you know what shape that kid is in? Can the kid bring it for 20 sec per shift for two periods before losing his legs or the full game? For many kids its an around the clock work for several years to get to any kind of pro skating shape. EliteProspects have Lias at 5'11 and 205 lbs. There is a reason for why so many of the kids doing well right now are 155-165 lbs instead of 205 lbs. Playing hockey is like running up for stairs. Put two guys next to each other, one fit kid 160 lbs and the other being a fit kid that is 205 lbs and put them on the first level of a big building in NY. I know who I would bet on to reach the top.
Secondly, Lias must improve his skating stride. I don't think this is as bad as some make it out to be. Many look at the two issues mentioned above and combine them and attribute to his stride alone. I think that is an incomplete observation.
We should have no illusions that its possible for a kid like Lias at 5'11 205 lbs to over night "get into shape" and fly on the ice for the duration of a 45 sec shift in the NHL night in and night out at the age of 20. Kids face different challenges, extremely few hockey players are ready to play in the NHL at the age of 19-20. This is part of the physical maturation process for kids. Why did a kid like Mark Schleife make the NHL when he was 22 years and 5 months and not 18-20? Or 21??? He wasn't physically mature enough. 7th overall pick in 2011. Had we drafted him 7th overall, many would have asked his second summer when he was 20 if he had not worked out since he wasn't NHL ready...
So I agree, improving his stride is important for Lias. But more so is giving him time and letting him develop. Its obviously that we are not used to developing kids around the NYR. Patience.
In addition, I don't agree at all with the description that Lias only in a subtle way is able to get things done on the ice. My view is that he is able to consistently make top notch high caliber plays when he gets the puck in dangerous areas. The reason he is not pwning the ice, at any level, is because he isn't getting involved enough, he isn't ending up with the puck on his stick in those situations often enough -- since he does not skate well enough right now.
Lias is subtle in the same way Yzerman was subtle when he played on one leg in the POs for Detroit in -- was it 2002? -- if you get what I mean... If you can't push the pace on the ice with your skating you will not dominate it.
Lias is subtle in the same way Yzerman was subtle when he played on one leg in the POs for Detroit in -- was it 2002? -- if you get what I mean... If you can't push the pace on the ice with your skating you will not dominate it.
Algernop Kreider
Ant strength
Add to this that it looked like he was being seriously considered for an Olympic spot before he came over to Hartford.
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Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
To reiterate a point you've made in the past: It was hardly a coincidence that it was after the EHT break that Lias went from "marginal bottom-6:er" to "PPG forward and one of the best players on his team" - he finally got a break to properly rest up.
Mac n Gs
Drury plz
- Jan 17, 2014
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Your underlined point nailed it. He isn’t getting pucks in dangerous areas and going full shifts at a time without doing anything because he doesn’t skate well enough to be up in the play and involved. Nailed it completely.
What worries me is and it’s a good point that a 20 year old isn’t fully developed but there should have been improvement year over year and I see zero improvement in his skating. So if he actually did work on it and didn’t improve at all. That’s troubling.
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
Nice.
I've come to agree with Ola's point that size is no longer an asset ceteris paribus. While bigger largely used to equal better (ceteris paribus) and you certainly still can be too small, there seems to be more of a sweet-spot in terms of size today. When you go above 6'2-6'3 it actually seems to become a hindrance (at least for forwards), and the same goes for weight. Agility, acceleration and endurance are becoming too important and size helps with none of the above.
Sorry if this has already been covered, but what's the tiebreaker in this tournament? H2H or goal differential? As of now, each team in our division would be 1-1 with a goal differential of 0.
So it would seem we still have a shot of finishing first in our division with a win tonight? I know it's Traverse so it's wholly inconsequential, but I'll take any trophy we can get at this point
Somehow the Prince of Wales trophy didn't really do it for me..
So it would seem we still have a shot of finishing first in our division with a win tonight? I know it's Traverse so it's wholly inconsequential, but I'll take any trophy we can get at this point
Somehow the Prince of Wales trophy didn't really do it for me..
Everytime I see someone call Lias a poor skater I want to punch a baby giraffe.
His first few steps are bad, other than that he's fine. His speed is okay once he gets going, it just takes him a while to get there which isn't ideal, but it's hardly a killer.
His first few steps are bad, other than that he's fine. His speed is okay once he gets going, it just takes him a while to get there which isn't ideal, but it's hardly a killer.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I have no idea how some of the underlying numbers look, but I think people like his intelligence the more opportunities they have to see him.
I tend to feel the same way about Howden. As people see him play, they'll like what he brings. We've already started to see that over the last few months.
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Don't know how he will turn out, but the first few strides are what matter most.
you just described Dylan mcilrath.
your first steps and pivot ability is all that really matters in the nhl. everyone in the league can skate ok once they get going.
Want to take a chance here and say a kind word about Lindgren, who I have seen exactly once... Saturday night vs MIN. I was watching on a small laptop screen and found it pretty challenging, so I'm sure I missed a lot. But on several occasions I saw this fellow use his body to clear opponents away from the front of the net like no Ranger I've seen in some years now. Whatever his current plusses and minuses, I'm pulling for him because I want some of that aggression on our blueline again.
It's amazing that all the REAL scouts in their reports called him an excellent skater. However, our WANNABE scouts here continue to bash it. Thus, why I listen to nothing our make believe scouts say on these boards. Lias is an intangibles player. He's 19 at the moment. He probably won't mature his game until 23-24 and will be one of those guys who is really good over 30. I'll say it again. The players on this team the past 2 years are dumb with hockey IQ and lazy. Two things Lias will never be. We need a lot more of players like him and a lot less of the Buchnevich's who simply don't give a crap.
Andersson's pivot ability is pretty damn good though. His edgework/change of direction, etc, is quite good, he's just not an explosive skater. It's a legitimate criticism, but also may not be something that holds him back as much as people think.
I've honestly started to hate these prospect tournaments because they mean almost nothing...we've seen guys who can't even hack it in the AHL have a great tournament, while guys who go on to be top flight NHLers have so-so tournaments at best, yet we're all ready to declare players steals or busts based on point totals and a few viewings from absurdly bad angles
This is true.
Guys who have murdered this tournament in recent years have been:
- Tim Erixon (who flat out looked like a future star based off of his performance at TC, this is one whiff that I still don't understand.)
- Evgeny Grachev
- HFNYR "Favorite" Jimmy Vesey.
I think the only guy on our end who has obliterated this tournament and gone on to have a very strong career was Stepan.
But Lias has been productive so those who don't like him (and we know who they are) need something else to pick at.
Osminator
Registered User
Jesus Christ. I came here for TC Tourney news/updates/etc... gotta sift through 30 pages of bashing and disagreement instead. Everyone is so hockey deprived lol
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
Basically summed up the last 4 months around here
gravey9
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- Dec 29, 2008
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A few observations to add on Lias' skating.
1) Minny's second goal in the game the other day was scored off the rush. It started with a turnover just inside the Minny blueline and quickly turned around. At the time, Lias was trying to get back and at first had a few steps on the Minny puck carrier in the neutral zone, Lias was quickly surpassed. By the time the scoring play happened Lias wasn't even involved in the play. He was a good 10-15 feet behind. If this were the end of a long shift, I'd chalk it up to being winded. But this was 20 seconds into his shift (and this was BEFORE he blocked the shot on the PK. So, either this was a lack of effort, an undisclosed injury from an earlier play or it's his skating. If it's his skating, the problem is more than a minor issue. After all, this wasn't the NHL or AHL, it was a prospects game and the play in question was just about effort and skating. (He was actually in decent position to impact the play when it started but he didn't keep up).
2) Lastly, what we're talking about seems more specific than skating, it's his foot speed. I was watching some prospect videos before this year's draft and in one of the videos there was an off-ice training session at a gym in Sweden that Lias was a part of. A few things jumped out. First, most prospects Lias' age are generally lanky and gawky. Lias is totally filled out. Really muscular. Solid.
But when they got to this one fairly advanced footspeed drill that used a platform -- there was a striking difference between Lias and the other lanky prospect. Lias was going half the speed as the taller, leaner prospect. Not sorta slower. Like literally half the speed. Where the other kid seemed light on his feet and bounced on and off the platform with very quick muscle reaction, Lias really struggled. It was not a fun drill for Lias.
Point is, when we talk about Lias' skating, I'm not convinced we're talking about his balance or strength or even stride. We're talking about footspeed. How quickly he can get his legs to generate power. So, sprinting from a standing position, changing directions on a dime, etc. I don't know enough about the art of skating to know HOW MUCH Lias can improve on this. But this is the big culprit. And I don't agree with this assertion that he hasn't worked on his skating. I am willing to guarantee he has. I just think whatever he's done so far hasn't impacted his on-ice abilities. Yet.
Finally, I am rooting hard for this kid. I really like his attitude. I like his skills, his awareness. He's a glue guy. And I think he will have a successful pro career (in the NHL or overseas). And that's why I'm a bit nervous for him with this skating issue. In over 3 and a half decades of being a Rangers fan, there are few players who get demonized more than ones with skating issues. It's because the fans see a lack of footspeed as a lack of endurance or effort. When it's simply their feet. If Lias doesn't make it in the NHL it won't be from lack of effort or heart -- it will purely be from lack of god-given abilities. I still have a lot of hope he can overcome this footspeed issue.
1) Minny's second goal in the game the other day was scored off the rush. It started with a turnover just inside the Minny blueline and quickly turned around. At the time, Lias was trying to get back and at first had a few steps on the Minny puck carrier in the neutral zone, Lias was quickly surpassed. By the time the scoring play happened Lias wasn't even involved in the play. He was a good 10-15 feet behind. If this were the end of a long shift, I'd chalk it up to being winded. But this was 20 seconds into his shift (and this was BEFORE he blocked the shot on the PK. So, either this was a lack of effort, an undisclosed injury from an earlier play or it's his skating. If it's his skating, the problem is more than a minor issue. After all, this wasn't the NHL or AHL, it was a prospects game and the play in question was just about effort and skating. (He was actually in decent position to impact the play when it started but he didn't keep up).
2) Lastly, what we're talking about seems more specific than skating, it's his foot speed. I was watching some prospect videos before this year's draft and in one of the videos there was an off-ice training session at a gym in Sweden that Lias was a part of. A few things jumped out. First, most prospects Lias' age are generally lanky and gawky. Lias is totally filled out. Really muscular. Solid.
But when they got to this one fairly advanced footspeed drill that used a platform -- there was a striking difference between Lias and the other lanky prospect. Lias was going half the speed as the taller, leaner prospect. Not sorta slower. Like literally half the speed. Where the other kid seemed light on his feet and bounced on and off the platform with very quick muscle reaction, Lias really struggled. It was not a fun drill for Lias.
Point is, when we talk about Lias' skating, I'm not convinced we're talking about his balance or strength or even stride. We're talking about footspeed. How quickly he can get his legs to generate power. So, sprinting from a standing position, changing directions on a dime, etc. I don't know enough about the art of skating to know HOW MUCH Lias can improve on this. But this is the big culprit. And I don't agree with this assertion that he hasn't worked on his skating. I am willing to guarantee he has. I just think whatever he's done so far hasn't impacted his on-ice abilities. Yet.
Finally, I am rooting hard for this kid. I really like his attitude. I like his skills, his awareness. He's a glue guy. And I think he will have a successful pro career (in the NHL or overseas). And that's why I'm a bit nervous for him with this skating issue. In over 3 and a half decades of being a Rangers fan, there are few players who get demonized more than ones with skating issues. It's because the fans see a lack of footspeed as a lack of endurance or effort. When it's simply their feet. If Lias doesn't make it in the NHL it won't be from lack of effort or heart -- it will purely be from lack of god-given abilities. I still have a lot of hope he can overcome this footspeed issue.
Curius who you consider a REAL scout that called his skating excellent? Also curious what Buchnevic has to do with anything anyone is talking about at the moment?
The Crypto Guy
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- Jun 26, 2017
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Lias skating is getting so overblown it's getting downright hilarious.
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