Traverse City Prospect Tournament 2018 - Part II

[ponytrekker]

I don't know how this is anything but a complete embarrassment to the organization. Every single excuse you guys are putting out there applies to every single team that plays in it. We played like trash for most of this tournament. BUt we had enough talent to be at least a middle of the road team instead of the punching bag of the tournament. This was really really bad guys.

Exactly. All I am seeing is Jimmy Dolan yes men. I am seeing no evidence of a competitive team

 

[Irishguy42]

Imagine thinking this tournament has actual importance.

Really means a lot that the team couldn't win without sending...*checks notes*...pretty much 2/3's of their good defenseive prospects and ANY of their decent goalie prospects.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

This tournament basically just a training camp for kids and newer guys to prep for real training camp. It’d be nice to have a better record, but I can’t get all that worked up about it, I’m just glad they’ve been streaming it the past few years to end the summer hockey drought a little earlier

 

[Trxjw]

I've always felt Howden is a lot closer to the NHL than most realize.

His game has done nothing but improve since being drafted and he's played in a solid variety of situations, roles and with various teams. He's shown himself to be adaptable and capable in just about every situation.

He plays an NHL style game and has looked good in limited AHL action. All of those attributes could potentially serve him well heading into camp.

I think he's the most complete of the three, and while he hasn't played against men, he's a year further ahead of Chytil and Andersson in his development. Didn't look out of place at all in his limited stint in the AHL in 2017. You put him in that 3C role getting 14-15 minutes a night with some special teams work and you're not worried about stifling him like maybe you might be with the other kids. I also think he's the most likely of the 3 to stick at center for his career.

I'd almost prefer to see Chytil and Andersson start in Hartford. Best case they have Nylander-esque D+2 seasons and are in the NHL to stay by the trade deadline when the Rangers inevitably deal a few roster players. Maybe Chytil and Meskanen can build something up playing together and make the jump as two-thirds of a line. Heck, I don't even hate Andersson being the LW with those two on paper.

 

[Trxjw]

The tournament isn't meaningless, but it certainly isn't meaningful. Any tournament where you're throwing people together for a few days is largely based on how quickly players can find chemistry and the overall talent level. The Rangers sent some good players, but they also had a lot of guys who will likely never sniff NHL ice. Plus, they were missing 2 of their top-5 and 5 of their top-10 prospects which makes a huge difference in what's quickly become a top-heavy system.

It's been six months since the Rangers announced the rebuild. A poor showing at a small tournament is hardly cause for concern.

 

[Edge]

I think he's the most complete of the three, and while he hasn't played against men, he's a year further ahead of Chytil and Andersson in his development. Didn't look out of place at all in his limited stint in the AHL in 2017. You put him in that 3C role getting 14-15 minutes a night with some special teams work and you're not worried about stifling him like maybe you might be with the other kids. I also think he's the most likely of the 3 to stick at center for his career.

I'd almost prefer to see Chytil and Andersson start in Hartford. Best case they have Nylander-esque D+2 seasons and are in the NHL to stay by the trade deadline when the Rangers inevitably deal a few roster players. Maybe Chytil and Meskanen can build something up playing together and make the jump as two-thirds of a line. Heck, I don't even hate Andersson being the LW with those two on paper.

I agree on all counts.

I know it’s a somewhat touchy subject for some people, but it’s really not hard for me to envision Andersson and/or Chytil on the wings.

Howden to me is a natural center, even if his upside isn’t seen as being on par with Andersson or Chytil. Obviously, we will have to wait and see.

 

[Trxjw]

I agree on all counts.

I know it’s a somewhat touchy subject for some people, but it’s really not hard for me to envision Andersson and/or Chytil on the wings.

Howden to me is a natural center, even if his upside isn’t seen as being on par with Andersson or Chytil. Obviously, we will have to wait and see.

It's Howden, Chytil, and then Andersson for me in terms of likelihood to end up at center. I'm hesitant to even go there, but I do have some concerns about Andersson's skating and play-making being a little under developed for him to be a center in this league. Chytil I think has the skating, size, and vision to be a guy who generates enough offense from the pivot that his shortcomings are overlooked. Then again, you could make a similar argument for Andersson using his tenacity and hockey IQ.

Howden just has all of the things you look for in a middle-six center. I draw some comparisons to Ryan O'Reilly. There's just too much quality there to think his lack of top-end speed will keep him from being a high-quality two-way pivot.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I watch spreadsheets not games (anymore) so I might be completely out to lunch here, but my feeling is that in today's game you can get away with subpar skating much better at center than as a winger. Examples will be anecdotal, but I can think of a lot more good/great centers that are bad-to-average skaters (my perception, I might be way off with some of the examples) than wingers; Stepan, ROR, Thornton, Getzlaf, Kopitar, Bäckström, Tavares, Draisaitl are just some names from the top of my head. Wingers OTOH? The only one who comes to mind immediately is Laine. I bet there are more good/great wingers with skating issues, but since I don't watch the games these days I'm not great at coming up with examples.

 

[Ghost of jas]

It's Howden, Chytil, and then Andersson for me in terms of likelihood to end up at center. I'm hesitant to even go there, but I do have some concerns about Andersson's skating and play-making being a little under developed for him to be a center in this league. Chytil I think has the skating, size, and vision to be a guy who generates enough offense from the pivot that his shortcomings are overlooked. Then again, you could make a similar argument for Andersson using his tenacity and hockey IQ.

Howden just has all of the things you look for in a middle-six center. I draw some comparisons to Ryan O'Reilly. There's just too much quality there to think his lack of top-end speed will keep him from being a high-quality two-way pivot.

I agree about Howden, but I feel more comfortable with Andersson at center than I do Chytil, mostly due to Andersson more complete game. I’m really hoping that in the 2019 draft, they take a potential first line center and not feel comfortable with what they have currently at center.

 

[Kovalev27]

we need a bluechip center prospect. an elite center prospect. we don't have it. jas is right. while I like all 3 kids none of them are top 10 prospects in the world. that's the kind of kid we need with this 2019 pick.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Holy hell with the overreactions in this thread.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Every year people say it’s a prospect tournament so it’s not a big deal. Yet every year we see the following:

- the team taking too many penalties
- the team blowing leads in the 3rd period
- the team dramatically underperforming

Speaks to a bigger issue within the organization. For a team that is trying to shed all of the awful habits that have plagued them the last 5 years, seeing the young guys picking them up early is worth noting.

 

[TGWL]

The tournament wasn't about winning or losing. We got a chance to look at some guys that might have a legitimate shot at making the team and see how they perform against similar competition and size. Andersson, Chytil, Howden, Hajek, all had moments where they showed skill and what they can bring to our future. Those 4 were the ones to watch. Then it was Meskanen, Lindgren and Lindqvist to see how far off they're from competing for an NHL spot/playing an NHL North American style.

 

[NYR]

This is going to be my last post on this subject and while this article is a bit dated, it gives you a little insight on just how important these tournaments have become to management and how the info obtained is an extremely important tool when it comes to roster moves, coaching, salary cap..Etc

It's a good read..

Importance of prospect tournaments being realized

by Dan Rosen / NHL.com
September 13th, 2008
TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. – Hall of Fame defenseman Larry Murphy is thankful the Los Angeles Kings never made him play in a prospects tournament or a rookie game. Back in 1980, when Murphy was drafted, the Kings just couldn't risk such a thing.

"They'd end up with players that were lower draft picks that weren't going to make the team playing against guys that were in the American League for 10 years," Murphy told NHL.com. "A couple of them (the AHL players), they really had no shot of making it to the NHL, so they took it out on these young kids. A lot of these games turned into fight-fests. You'd have a young prospect put in a position where he was going to have to fight these guys and that doesn't help his development. You can't evaluate him. You get nothing but a kid with a bad taste in his mouth."
While things have changed since Murphy was a young pup embarking on a legendary career, placing an extreme amount of importance on evaluating prospects – even the middling kind – has been universal in the NHL since 2005, when the new CBA came out and the League entered the salary cap era.

Nowadays, events like the annual Traverse City Prospects Tournament, which was born in 1999 and is hosted by the Detroit Red Wings, are viewed as essential. Goonery is not welcome because with limited dollars to spend on players who are becoming free agents faster than ever before, evaluating and developing prospects has become as important as signing or trading for established stars.
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Importance of prospect tournaments being realized

 

[Webster]

This tournament was definitely disappointing for the Rangers, these youngsters obviously have a lot to learn...including Chytil.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Every year people say it’s a prospect tournament so it’s not a big deal. Yet every year we see the following:

- the team taking too many penalties
- the team blowing leads in the 3rd period
- the team dramatically underperforming

Speaks to a bigger issue within the organization. For a team that is trying to shed all of the awful habits that have plagued them the last 5 years, seeing the young guys picking them up early is worth noting.

Yet for what ever reason, we don't see these things really carrying over into the regular seasons of the players who participate.

Andersson was very quiet last year, he had a very strong D+1 season. Meanwhile we've seen guys like Stromwall and others kill it and amount to nothing.

It's almost like a short tournament has no effect on a player's future.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Yet for what ever reason, we don't see these things really carrying over into the regular seasons of the players who participate.

Andersson was very quiet last year, he had a very strong D+1 season. Meanwhile we've seen guys like Stromwall and others kill it and amount to nothing.

It's almost like a short tournament has no effect on a player's future.

Never in my post did I single out specific players for underperforming.

I’m saying its an organizational issue. Because it is. One that trickles into the Wolfpack as well.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Never in my post did I single out specific players for underperforming.

I’m saying its an organizational issue. Because it is. One that trickles into the Wolfpack as well.

It's not really an organizational issue unless you want it to be... and in that case it still isn't.

I'm pretty sure the TC team in 2014 got housed, the Pack made it to the ECF that year.

OTOH, they finished 2nd in 2011, I don't think the wolfpack even made the playoffs that year and if they did, they were one and done.

 

[Edge]

I agree about Howden, but I feel more comfortable with Andersson at center than I do Chytil, mostly due to Andersson more complete game. I’m really hoping that in the 2019 draft, they take a potential first line center and not feel comfortable with what they have currently at center.

That's my personal hope as well.

I feel like they need that keystone pieces at forward and on defense. They have support guys, and guys who can round out a core. But they don't quite have that centerpiece in place yet.

 

[Ola]

Nice to see us finally have a good showing at Traverse. A deserved win and an unfair loss against two strong teams the first two games. Detroit’s preparation and team depth was obviously on a different level so I wouldn’t look that much into that game. Would definitely give the team a strong B+, close to A-.

 

[haveandare]

Every year people say it’s a prospect tournament so it’s not a big deal. Yet every year we see the following:

- the team taking too many penalties
- the team blowing leads in the 3rd period
- the team dramatically underperforming

Speaks to a bigger issue within the organization. For a team that is trying to shed all of the awful habits that have plagued them the last 5 years, seeing the young guys picking them up early is worth noting.

Is the idea here that guys who have never played in the organization at all before are somehow inheriting organization-wide issues by just stepping on the ice in the jersey? I don't see how 75% of these guys could possibly be showing the same issues as actual NYR players when they'll never even get close to NYR and most of those who might get close haven't been close yet.

 

[Kendo]

I'm not worried about the outcomes of the games. We didn't send an actual goalie to the tourny, so "decent showings" from our prospects was the only positive to look towards. I think we got some decent showings.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I don't know how this is anything but a complete embarrassment to the organization. Every single excuse you guys are putting out there applies to every single team that plays in it. We played like trash for most of this tournament. BUt we had enough talent to be at least a middle of the road team instead of the punching bag of the tournament. This was really really bad guys.

Better execute all of the players.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Is the idea here that guys who have never played in the organization at all before are somehow inheriting organization-wide issues by just stepping on the ice in the jersey? I don't see how 75% of these guys could possibly be showing the same issues as actual NYR players when they'll never even get close to NYR and most of those who might get close haven't been close yet.

They are all destined to be a bunch of Cody McLeods.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I agree about Howden, but I feel more comfortable with Andersson at center than I do Chytil, mostly due to Andersson more complete game. I’m really hoping that in the 2019 draft, they take a potential first line center and not feel comfortable with what they have currently at center.

I'll take it a step further and say that I don't see Chytil as a NHL center. I simply do not see him handling the position at all and I think it's a waste of his talent.