Training Camp Thread - First round of Cuts Made (10 players)

[Bullseye]

Like a slow John Michael Lyles unfortunately.

 

[Community]

What does him improving have to do with him being over rated?

Nothing, his character and work ethic will allow him to improve, but that changes nothing about him being over rated. He has a long road ahead of him if he is ever going to be a full time NHL D man....his skating is a huge issue and that is not a quick fix. I hope he exceeds the expectations of his biggest supporters as it would mean that he is a top 4 D man in the NHL and I would be ecstatic if that were to happen.

I say I think he has potential to be a #3-4 defenseman and that he had a great year in Guelph. You said I over-rated him. That implies either you thought he didn't have a great year in Guelph or that I'm over-estimating his potential... which is it?

If you don't disagree with either of these statements you shouldn't have quoted me and said I'm over-rating him.

 

[kingstwitterguy]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/514070337362092032/photo/1

Is there anything to be learned from the fact that Findlay, Finn and Watling were still on this sheet? Or that Findlay doesn't have an X next to his name?

 

[Rude Dog]

Are you guys serious lol? This whole year there have been multiple posters clamouring how Finn looks like he has "legit top pairing potential" and he's gonna be "at least a great #3" down the road. I dont have a list of folks who said stuff like that because i dont care enough to keep track of such stupid things, but oh my god yes, people were definitely saying such things.

Wow...I didn't realize Finn just announced his retirement. I guess you are right. Just out of curiousity...what does "down the road" in your sentence above mean to you ?

 

[Ace88*]

Wow...I didn't realize Finn just announced his retirement. I guess you are right. Just out of curiousity...what does "down the road" in your sentence above mean to you ?

It means go back and read what I said about finn in earlier posts within this thread

Christ, you people are way too protective

 

[Paradoc]

Yeah, many (or some) people thought Rielly-Finn would be our future top pairing. Overall, his game is good but he will have trouble being an NHL regular if he doesn't work on his skating.

 

[GoodNewfieBoy]

In all fairness, all players, especially defenseman have weaknesses at his age. I wasn't overly impressed with him either, but he still has a lot of opportunity to improve.

Look at Tavares for example; he wasn't a very good skater at 19 or 20, but a few years really focussing on skating can have excellent results. I'm sure he knows it's something he needs to improve, now it's up to him to put in the work and get better.

No 20 year old should be written off so early.

That's true, I went a little overboard ha!!

 

[The CyNick]

so some people thought Finn was in our top 9 for dmen coming into camp?

If he has stuff he needs to work on, he's better off getting a jump start on Marlies camp. doesn't say anything about where he will be when he tops out his development.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

I never gave Finn a chance to make the Leafs this year..baby steps...He needs a year or two in the AHL to get stronger and to develop his game as a pro.

 

[Rude Dog]

It means go back and read what I said about finn in earlier posts within this thread

Christ, you people are way too protective

To be honest, I've never thought of Finn as anything more then a decent prospect. Time will tell. But it's simply to early for you to be claiming victory as to what you think he will be in the years to come.

 

[diceman934]

I say I think he has potential to be a #3-4 defenseman and that he had a great year in Guelph. You said I over-rated him. That implies either you thought he didn't have a great year in Guelph or that I'm over-estimating his potential... which is it?

If you don't disagree with either of these statements you shouldn't have quoted me and said I'm over-rating him.

I quoted you because you are among his biggest supporters. ..and have in my opinion over rated him. He had a great year last season as a player who is among the oldest players in the league playing against younger players you would hope so. You also believed he should have made the WJC team. I did not think he would ever have a chance.

I say to answer your question it is both.... you over rated His potential based on his play this past season..As well as his future potential...He needs to show he can play against bigger stronger players and be effective before we should call him anything more then a prospect...He is a project currently that has some good tools but is missing a key piece that you need to play d in the AHL never mind the NHL.

I thought that he went to high in the Draft and it shows that his tool box has some tools hence the place he went in the Draft....With skating Such a key component in playing in the NHL. .

 

[Community]

I quoted you because you are among his biggest supporters. ..and have in my opinion over rated him. He had a great year last season as a player who is among the oldest players in the league playing against younger players you would hope so. You also believed he should have made the WJC team. I did not think he would ever have a chance.

I say to answer your question it is both.... you over rated His potential based on his play this past season..As well as his future potential...He needs to show he can play against bigger stronger players and be effective before we should call him anything more then a prospect...He is a project currently that has some good tools but is missing a key piece that you need to play d in the AHL never mind the NHL.

I thought that he went to high in the Draft and it shows that his tool box has some tools hence the place he went in the Draft....With skating Such a key component in playing in the NHL. .

The bolder makes no sense, most prospects dont play against older players until they reach the NHL or AHL. So you're saying we can't say how good a player like Draisaitl, Bennett, etc. will be because they haven't played against bigger/stronger players? We myswell not even try to evaluate any prospects then...

He was rated by most scouts as a higher pick then where he was taken and I trust our own scouts more than your opinion at the draft. 95%+ of people on this board don't watch enough of players picked outside the top 10 to actually have a good read on them... even then there's a good chance you're not watching/paying attention to every play they're making.

And I still believe Finn should have made the WJ team along with Connor Brown. We got demolished so I find it hard to believe that hockey Canada made the right calls on every player. I think HC needs to focus on picking the best current players, not the players with the best potential. Finn could of helped that team and I think a lot of people (including nonleaf fans) agree with that or at least think it's possible.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

Finn's mobility seems to be an issue as he got walked numerous times in the rookie tournament and got caught standing still or flat footed.

Perhaps management want him to get some 1 on 1 time with skating coach Barb Underhill and work on this skating before the Marlies season begins and the rest of the team shows up for their camp.

Biggest issue I saw in Finn was a reluctance to take the body. He'd try to position a guy out on the boards, but if they had speed they'd go around him. Saw it twice in the same game.

If he rubbed them out along the boards, the attack is nullified. Instead, it lead to a Chicago goal @ the tournament.

 

[Hero]

For those who missed the list of cuts


Matt Finn
Stefan Della Rovere
Brett Findlay
Spencer Machacek
Ryan Rupert
Francis Wathier
Patrick Watling
Matt Rupert
Carter Verhaeghe
Cody Donaghey

All sent to the AHL for now besides for Rupert and Verhaeghe who are going back to Jr.

 

[Hero]

For those curious remaining....

Bolded the ones I think will go next,

NAME POSITION
SPENCER ABBOTT F
CARTER ASHTON F
TYLER BIGGS F
TROY BODIE F
DAVID BOOTH F
TYLER BOZAK F
DAVID BROLL F
CONNOR BROWN F
SAM CARRICK F
DAVID CLARKSON F
JAMIE DEVANE F
MATT FRATTIN F
FREDERIK GAUTHIER F
PETER HOLLAND F
NAZEM KADRI F
PHIL KESSEL F
LEO KOMAROV F
PETRI KONTIOLA F
BRANDON KOZUN F
JOSH LEIVO F
JOFFREY LUPUL F
GREG MCKEGG F
FRAZER MCLAREN F
CARSON MCMILLAN F
WILLIAM NYLANDER F
COLTON ORR F
BRAD ROSS F
MIKE SANTORELLI F
TREVOR SMITH F
JAMES VAN RIEMSDYK F
DANIEL WINNIK F
BRADY VAIL F
CODY FRANSON D
JAKE GARDINER D
PETTER GRANBERG D
KORBINIAN HOLZER D
ERIC KNODEL D
VIKTOR LOOV D
ANDREW MACWILLIAM D
KEVIN MARSHALL D
BRENDAN MIKKELSON D
TOM NILSSON D
STUART PERCY D
DION PHANEUF D
ROMAN POLAK D
MORGAN RIELLY D
STEPHANE ROBIDAS D
HENRIK TALLINDER D
JONATHAN BERNIER G
ANTOINE BIBEAU G
CHRISTOPHER GIBSON G
CAL HEETER G
JAMES REIMER G
GARRET SPARKS G

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Nobody is saying he's a bad prospect or writing him off, but many around here have been overboard about his level, and his potential, since he was drafted.

I think he needs a couple years in the AHL, and hard work on his mobility, but I see him in a 4/5 role, honestly, or as solid trade bait as an add-in, after a good year in the AHL. He's in tough, with a deep group of D-men in the system.

 

[diceman934]

The bolder makes no sense, most prospects dont play against older players until they reach the NHL or AHL. So you're saying we can't say how good a player like Draisaitl, Bennett, etc. will be because they haven't played against bigger/stronger players? We myswell not even try to evaluate any prospects then...

He was rated by most scouts as a higher pick then where he was taken and I trust our own scouts more than your opinion at the draft. 95%+ of people on this board don't watch enough of players picked outside the top 10 to actually have a good read on them... even then there's a good chance you're not watching/paying attention to every play they're making.

And I still believe Finn should have made the WJ team along with Connor Brown. We got demolished so I find it hard to believe that hockey Canada made the right calls on every player. I think HC needs to focus on picking the best current players, not the players with the best potential. Finn could of helped that team and I think a lot of people (including nonleaf fans) agree with that or at least think it's possible.

I never had an opinion about Finn at the Draft as I never watched him play...I did about Rielly and said that they should Draft him. My opinion is being form by watching him since we drafted him...He went to high , skating is a huge issue and he has bad feet. He was not a good candidate for the WJC as he would have got exposed on the large ice and high skill. He struggle at the rookie tourney with good skaters , putting him against a whole team of good skaters would have been mean.

I hope you are right and he blows my socks off....I just will not be surprised if he struggles in the AHL and in the NHL if he gets the opportunity.

 

[cupcrazyman]

For those who missed the list of cuts


Matt Finn
Stefan Della Rovere
Brett Findlay
Spencer Machacek
Ryan Rupert
Francis Wathier
Patrick Watling
Matt Rupert
Carter Verhaeghe
Cody Donaghey

All sent to the AHL for now besides for Rupert and Verhaeghe who are going back to Jr.

which Rupert ?

 

[realgoodleafs]

Sounds like "THE SWARM" has been thrown in the garbage can.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

What does him improving have to do with him being over rated now?

Nothing, his character and work ethic will allow him to improve, but that changes nothing about him being over rated. He has a long road ahead of him if he is ever going to be a full time NHL D man....his skating is a huge issue and that is not a quick fix. I hope he exceeds the expectations of his biggest supporters as it would mean that he is a top 4 D man in the NHL and I would be ecstatic if that were to happen.

There are plenty of below-average skating top-4 d-men in the league. Its their work-ethic, smarts, and stick-work (imo) that allow them to succeed. Traits Finn has in spades. Francois Beauchemin's foot-speed needs work too and I think thats a decent comparable, just to make an example. Now I'm not saying Finn is a surefire top-4 d-man but the Beauchemin-level upside is there. Comparing players 3 years apart at critical stages of their development isn't fair either.

 

[Frelimo]

For those curious remaining....

Bolded the ones I think will go next,


FREDERIK GAUTHIER F

I wonder how bad his injury is, I would think they'd want him to get into at least one game.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

For those who missed the list of cuts


Matt Finn
Stefan Della Rovere
Brett Findlay
Spencer Machacek
Ryan Rupert
Francis Wathier
Patrick Watling
Matt Rupert
Carter Verhaeghe
Cody Donaghey

All sent to the AHL for now besides for Rupert and Verhaeghe who are going back to Jr.

For some of these guys, a few days of training camp with the big club was actually a reward for an impressive showing at the rookie camp, so being cut isn't really a failure - in fact, I think a couple were even signed to ELCs recently.

One name that does stand out is Matt Finn. I'd say being cut so early is a bit of a setback for him, especially considering other young guys like Loov and Nilsson seem to have played a lot better.

I wonder how bad his [Gauthier's] injury is, I would think they'd want him to get into at least one game.

I agree that Freddy will be kept around to get into some exhibition play if he can get healthy soon. He was impressive in his first rookie camp game, and I think Leafs would have wanted to give him an extended look. IMO he's definitely AHL-ready (but alas inelegible.)

 

[Gamble9]

Finn had a bad camp I'm not worried about him smarter people then me have said he is at least a top 6 guy with a top 4 his most likely ceiling he's young and he's going to a strong defensive marlies team after this year well have a much better idea of how good he is and where he is on our depth chart

 

[Faltorvo]

Well as for Finn, this is not a end all be all thing to happen but I must say, I am disappointed that his camp was so poor to warrant a cut so early.

It's not the sign I was hoping to see.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Well as for Finn, this is not a end all be all thing to happen but I must say, I am disappointed that his camp was so poor to warrant a cut so early.

It's not the sign I was hoping to see.

i wouldn't read too much into it. even if he had a fantastic camp - he would have had to leap frog, what? 5-6 other players?
they probably just want to let him focus on being a Marlie and give him extra Barb Time