Training Camp/Preseason games Thread 2021

[Peter James Bond II]

May be a strange year...if the veterans that are: Kopitar, Brown, Arvidsson, Danault, Kempe, Iafallo, Doughty, Edler are less than 80% of what they were, even 2 years ago....
will be a season of transition to the youth. What happens, if the Kings are 7-13 after 20 games? TM on the hotseat? Time to trade a few of these guys?

Danault and Arvidsson will begin to wish they had not come here...and / or, start playing below their expected level.
By January, we can all be ready for the 'Wright or Miroshnichenko?' thread. Since no one except his family can probably spell
that, without looking at it 5 times, will just be 'Wright or Miro?" thread. Already saw there are 0 top LHD prospects.
Too bad ALL OF Clarke, Spence, Faber, Grans are RHD. Happy to have them all, but sheesh. Nousianen is LHD.

Pre-season over and 2 of the least things I expected thing happened....Vladimir Tkachev and Gabe Vilardi were the best players on the team....with Mikey Anderson and Lias Andersson right there. So, there's that and so elated about that and Byfield's last showing...until the horrible thing that shall not be mentioned.

I am encouraged that Turcotte did not disappoint. At all. Stop saying the Kings should have taken Zegras...several other teams passed on Zegras as well. Don't put that on Turcotte, he's a helluva player and will be a good one. Something like Mike Richards. Encouraged by Artie and that he's ready...just not good for the 4th line.

 

[Sol]

Why does it matter what these guys look like in pre-season?

Maybe they'll be trash in the regular season, maybe they won't, but the pre-season isn't an indication one way or another.

I don't understand this mentality at all. The only thing preseason doesn't matter about is the score. Do you think that players in the twilight of their career that look bad in the preseason will look much better in the regular season? Have you already forgotten how the shitty preseason performance of this team has well carried into the regular season.

They're old... Don't expect them to suddenly turn it on. They look like they're in a decent decline, and this might come as a shock, expect to see a lot more of it in the regular season.


Really bizarre logic when you consider the biggest issue about the team last year is the overall feeling that players don't give a shit.

Do you think it was just a coincidence when Carter went to Pittsburgh and actually... Looked... Good. Remember how he looked on the kings last season?

Where is this baseless hunch coming from? I'm trying to understand. I really am.

 

[Fishhead]

I'm not worried about Kopitar really. Looking back at some of my old posts, I was really down on him in the 2017 training camp, about how he looked terrible and hadn't been earning his contract. Then he goes out and puts up 92 points

Every year we get pretty riled up about the veterans, but once the season rolls around they have been fine.

 

[Schrute farms]

What changes has McLellan instilled on the team?

My point is there's always this group of certain people on this board keep giving rope to vets and a coach who have done nothing to deserve it. It's mind numbing. These guys are well paid athletes and professionals who don't even seem remotely interested in performing. Why are we giving them such a long leash at their age specifically? What makes any logical person think that athletes in the twilight of their careers suddenly will have an interest in turning it "on" when the regular season starts

No idea what this post means -- changes? Maybe you erroneously quoted it as me instead of someone else. But yeah, our coach McSucks....no argument from me. As i said, i think most the board feels the same way and has for a loooong time.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I understand very well the preseason is meaningless when it comes to a scores/standings standpoint, but the process should still be there. I also understand its very different for the vets vs. the guys whose jobs literally depend on it.

However, the process is still somewhat important. I'm not having much faith when watching Brown halfassedly skate in to the zone only to get caught from behind, curl off, and feebly toss a pass to the middle of the ice for a turnover for an entire 60 minutes.

Mikey Anderson is out there busting his ass vs. 2-3 dudes at a time and walking the puck up by himself while Doughty is drive-by slashing and pokechecking and just going for a skate when anything resembling hard work appears.

Sure, it's the preseason, and it's over. But I'd love you to be able to say "I told you so" when game 1 rolls around instead of having these trends continue.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

And now....for a little positivity. Vladimir Tkachev, playing 4D Chess. I look forward to a highlight reel of his near future King highlights.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Any chance for a Vilardi breakout year??!

 

[DoktorJeep]

Any chance for a Vilardi breakout year??!

20-25 goals feels realistic coming off his preseason. His floor looks like 15 goals, but that’s if he gets zero help.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Until Kopitar actually turns in a terrible regular season in which he’s struggling to keep up with the play and looks actually old out there, we all owe him the benefit of the doubt. Guy has been the best player on every Kings team for closing in on twenty years.

If just Vilardi has a major breakout year, we’ll make some noise. Maybe not make the playoffs, but turn a head or two in our attempt.

 

[DoktorJeep]

October and November have featured higher scoring games as teams work in systems and goalies get sharpened. So to play above .500 in the first two months means you have to try and out score your mistakes. I think it’s reasonable to assume that a Petersen/Quick duo can provide a sub 3.00 GAA performance over a given 10 games stretch.

With the roster composition, we’re faced with a goal scoring by committee situation. The Kings need to be a 3 goals per game team to stay alive. Getting two goals from the forwards on a given night is a semi-safe bet, maybe 65/35 in favor, at best. Making up the gap from the D is the biggest question.

Relying on just Doughty to deliver the offense is not realistic, especially at the start of the season. Walker is the next best candidate, but he’d have to take a major step to be a 30+ point D. The rest of the defenseman are all sub 20 point guys, so the options beyond Walker are pretty much non existent.

With the forward lines being a Jenga puzzle, I think a trade for an upgrade on Walker could move the needle. A team I have my eye on is Dallas. If they fall out of things early in the season, I think they could look to shake up their roster. Heiskenin is their anointed 1D, so a guy like John Klinberg could be available since he’s a pending UFA.

A deal of Klingberg for Walker and say Kempe might be great for both teams. The Stars get middle of the lineup depth in exchange for a guy they will probably let go. The Kings can afford to slightly overpay JK on an extension and can slot the Bjornfot/Roy pairing further down the lineup. JK can alleviate some minutes from Doughty and possibly supplant him on PP1.

The team has some good pieces in place to try and improve month over month. But digging yourself out of a hole always makes it harder to end up ahead when you run out of roadway. We spill a lot of rhetoric about why the team struggles when there is so much to excited about on paper. The obvious answer is the depth is too shallow to compete, likely even after the offseason upgrades.

20 games will take us to 11/27, so Thanksgiving weekend. 13 of those games are against playoff teams and only two games against teams that finished below the Kings in the standings last year (NJ & Buf). With 40 points on the line, treading water looks like 15 points, or 7.5 wins.

If the team is around that mark, it means that pieces are working, but the sum of the parts is fatally lacking. You’ve got to look to move the needle to keep your head above water. Hopefully John KINGberg is on his way here soon.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Walker is the next best candidate, but he’d have to take a major step to be a 30+ point D.

Walker scored 24 points in 70 games in 2019-20
Walker scored 18 points in 47 games in 2021

That's on pace for 28 and 31 points respectively.

I don't think he'd have to take THAT big a step to be a 30+ point defenseman. Particularly considering how ineffective the Kings second power play unit has been and how effective they figure to be this season.

Jim Fox said today that the biggest impact on getting more offense from the defense is the play of the offense.

 

[Trash Panda]

Nothing is set in stone, but with the unfortunate injuries coupled with the lackluster performance from the vets this pre-season, I feel like there are more questions than answers about the makeup of this team.

The transition of leadership is going to be a rocky one, and cannot happen soon enough. It’s high time that the keys be given to guys like Anderson & Turcotte.

Let the corpse that used to be Dustin Brown melt into the past, because it is going to be the first domino to fall.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Nothing is set in stone, but with the unfortunate injuries coupled with the lackluster performance from the vets this pre-season, I feel like there are more questions than answers about the makeup of this team.

The transition of leadership is going to be a rocky one, and cannot happen soon enough. It’s high time that the keys be given to guys like Anderson & Turcotte.

Let the corpse that used to be Dustin Brown melt into the past, because it is going to be the first domino to fall.

The Kings are the only team in the NHL that has a winger on line one, that if waived, would not be claimed. No, he would not be claimed. at 37 and his salary and atrocious pre-season. Clague was even better. He would not be claimed. So, go through all the other teams and find 1 top 3 forward, that if waived, would not be claimed. So, there's 32 teams and 96 first line NHL forwards. Only one would pass waivers, if waived: Dustin Brown. Find 1 more and let it be known here, who you think could be another.

However, there is a solution. Put him on line 3 or 4. But will they?

 

[kilowatt]

The Kings are the only team in the NHL, that has a winger on line one, that if waived, would not be claimed. No, he would not be claimed. at 37 and his salary and atrocious pre-season. Clague was even better. He would not be claimed. So, go through all the other teams and find 1 top 3 forward, that if waived, would not be claimed. So, there's 32 teams and 96 first line NHL forwards. Only one would pass waivers, if waived: Dustin Brown. Find 1 more and let it be known here, who you think could be another.

However, there is a solution. Put him on line 3 or 4. But will they?

Dustin Brown would be claimed on waivers. You're out to lunch if you think otherwise. He's not a first-line player, I agree, but without question a team would take him. He has one year left and scored 17 goals in 49 games last season. I'd prefer him in a third- or fourth-line role, but that doesn't mean he's worse than 400 other players in the league.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Walker scored 24 points in 70 games in 2019-20
Walker scored 18 points in 47 games in 2021

That's on pace for 28 and 31 points respectively.

I don't think he'd have to take THAT big a step to be a 30+ point defenseman. Particularly considering how ineffective the Kings second power play unit has been and how effective they figure to be this season.

Jim Fox said today that the biggest impact on getting more offense from the defense is the play of the offense.

It would be a first for Walker to break that threshold. And how effective the Kings PP units are remains to be seen. Expecting improvement on multiple fronts at the same time is building your house on sand.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Dustin Brown would be claimed on waivers. You're out to lunch if you think otherwise. He's not a first-line player, I agree, but without question a team would take him. He has one year left and scored 17 goals in 49 games last season. I'd prefer him in a third- or fourth-line role, but that doesn't mean he's worse than 400 other players in the league.

$5,875,000 is one reason. Players like Staal, Corey Perry, Zach Parise, Joe Thornton, are playing for $750,000 to $1,000,000. These 4 (and other 36+ yr olds) are playing better than Brown and no team would pay any of them $5,875,000. Parise and Thornton are playing for $750,000. Perry, 1 M. I could not find Staals' . Maybe he's retired now? But he was making something like that last yr.

If he was waived, GMs would get their latest reports on him and see his pre-season footage and it would end there. The $5,875,000 would end it for over 25 teams.
Maybe 1 to 3 GM's looks at the situation and gets a report made. Truth. Stop mentioning he had 17 goals last yr.
Last year was last year. He made 1 NHL pass last night and cannot make any plays with Kopi the entire pre-season and giving up the puck every shift.
I recorded all televised games and watched each player. He looks totally done.

 

[cyclones22]

It's not even just Brown's preseason. It was his finish to last season too, which most of us wrote off as completely injury related. Well, at 36+ years old, you can fall off that athletic cliff at any time. He may have already fallen off and that player from the first half of last season is gone forever. There needs to be a very short leash on him if you're playing him on the 1st line. He's freaking going to be 37 in a few weeks.

 

[kilowatt]

Looking at the top line, the trio of Viktor Arvidsson – Anze Kopitar – Dustin Brown played three games together and combined for no points and a -16 rating. Are we concerned at all with that unit heading into meaningful games

https://lakingsinsider.com/2021/10/10/angeles-analysis-end-of-training-camp/

yeah that's probably fine though lol

 

[KingLB]

https://lakingsinsider.com/2021/10/10/angeles-analysis-end-of-training-camp/

yeah that's probably fine though lol

Yes, you can’t have Arvidson and Brown on the same line. No one to get in and start the forecheck or comfortable with puck on their stick. Problem is you can’t have either with Kempe either (not that he does anything to deserve a top6 spot)

Honestly think AI has to be on the first line. And eventually someone like Moore or Anderson or even Turcotte will be needed to play with PD.

 

[KingLB]

20-25 goals feels realistic coming off his preseason. His floor looks like 15 goals, but that’s if he gets zero help.

His limiting factor is going to be ice time. If Kopi still getting 22+ mins, and Vilardi on second unit PP. His numbers can only get so big.

 

[aceofpace]

Like someone else already said, I'm willing to give Kopi the benefit of doubt. I'm not particularly worried about Brown either, for the simple fact that we have numerous options to replace him. If he sucks just move him down or replace him altogether.

If there's one person that worries me it's Doughty. If he continues to suck who do we replace him with? As none of the kids (Spence, Faber, Clarke, et.c) are ready yet. We are basically stuck with him whether he produces or not.

 

[Telos]

I'm super surprised that Blake waived Wagner to be honest. It's a good sign that management sees and reacts to what even the fanbase can easily recognize.

I am not worried about Kopitar, he is the most consistent player the Kings have had in decades. The same goes for Doughty in many ways.

Brown may not be a top line player anymore but he isn't as bad as many are making him out to be. It's just frustrating when the there are so many obvious prospects and options that could be in his spot so there is mounting pressure there. Just have to see how long it takes for TMac to move him down to the bottom 6. Honestly, I don't think it will take too long, he is probably going to wait for a prospect to put together a few consistent showings.

At the very least, roster spots are starting to open here slowly and veterans are starting to be more and more vulnerable which will only make things more competitive and the team stronger.

 

[Schmooley]

At the very least, roster spots are starting to open here slowly and veterans are starting to be more and more vulnerable which will only make things more competitive and the team stronger.

What roster spots are starting to open? Theres actually less spots than last season because they brought in danault and arvidsson and resigned iafallo. JAD had a good year last year and a good enough camp and got pushed out. Kaliyev may make the team cause of injuries and he gets to play next to grinders on the fourth line. Then hell get sent down.
What has happened that makes you think any of the veterans are vulnerable? Zero other options were tried on the top two lines. Actually fagemo got a game there. He scored and then never saw a real game and that line went on to have zero points.

 

[tkb81]

October and November have featured higher scoring games as teams work in systems and goalies get sharpened. So to play above .500 in the first two months means you have to try and out score your mistakes. I think it’s reasonable to assume that a Petersen/Quick duo can provide a sub 3.00 GAA performance over a given 10 games stretch.

With the roster composition, we’re faced with a goal scoring by committee situation. The Kings need to be a 3 goals per game team to stay alive. Getting two goals from the forwards on a given night is a semi-safe bet, maybe 65/35 in favor, at best. Making up the gap from the D is the biggest question.

Relying on just Doughty to deliver the offense is not realistic, especially at the start of the season. Walker is the next best candidate, but he’d have to take a major step to be a 30+ point D. The rest of the defenseman are all sub 20 point guys, so the options beyond Walker are pretty much non existent.

With the forward lines being a Jenga puzzle, I think a trade for an upgrade on Walker could move the needle. A team I have my eye on is Dallas. If they fall out of things early in the season, I think they could look to shake up their roster. Heiskenin is their anointed 1D, so a guy like John Klinberg could be available since he’s a pending UFA.

A deal of Klingberg for Walker and say Kempe might be great for both teams. The Stars get middle of the lineup depth in exchange for a guy they will probably let go. The Kings can afford to slightly overpay JK on an extension and can slot the Bjornfot/Roy pairing further down the lineup. JK can alleviate some minutes from Doughty and possibly supplant him on PP1.

The team has some good pieces in place to try and improve month over month. But digging yourself out of a hole always makes it harder to end up ahead when you run out of roadway. We spill a lot of rhetoric about why the team struggles when there is so much to excited about on paper. The obvious answer is the depth is too shallow to compete, likely even after the offseason upgrades.

20 games will take us to 11/27, so Thanksgiving weekend. 13 of those games are against playoff teams and only two games against teams that finished below the Kings in the standings last year (NJ & Buf). With 40 points on the line, treading water looks like 15 points, or 7.5 wins.

If the team is around that mark, it means that pieces are working, but the sum of the parts is fatally lacking. You’ve got to look to move the needle to keep your head above water. Hopefully John KINGberg is on his way here soon.

drew off PP1? we cant even get brown of line1 :/

 

[BringTheReign]

Some interesting tidbits from Dooley in his training camp wrap-up:

Looking at the top line, the trio of Viktor Arvidsson – Anze Kopitar – Dustin Brown played three games together and combined for no points and a -16 rating. Are we concerned at all with that unit heading into meaningful games?

Of all of those storylines, the final one is the biggest non-factor for me, meaning the production of the top line. I think that from watching the games, the chances created from that unit were there aplenty. Amongst Kings forwards, the three members of that line ranked first, third and fourth in shot attempts for during the preseason, and they only played three games apiece. They also ranked in the top four in scoring chances and high-danger chances for. As they begin to gel as a unit, you have to expect that pucks will start to drop for players of that caliber.

I guess that matches up for Arvidsson at least in terms of the eye test. Better sign than I expected overall.