GDT: Training Camp discussion - Rifai and Murray on waivers -- Steeves clears

[uncleben]

Random thoughts about this camp update - specifically the depth/fringe guys

-I'd put Steeves ahead of Lorentz, personally, but I guess they want to give the PTO guy a genuine shot with Group 1, which is fair enough
-I'm down to give Pare and Quillan another game too. I don't think they are real candidates for a roster spot, especially Q, but I'm curious to see a little more of what we have there
-Was a little more hopeful for Mattinen, but hopefully some conditioning to the North American pro game down in the A will help him look a little less lost.
-Nice to see Lisowsky hanging in there!


There are definitely things that I am curious about regarding how they choose those groups...
Like why is Joe Blandisi a Group 3 guy? It probably makes sense to have a vet or two down there to help the young kids in camp, but why not Marlies captain Shaw or Kyle Clifford? Just curious how they decide those things.

Also weird they have Muranov and Finnie back on the roster after cutting them both earlier this week...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Draisaitl is their top center, just not their top player.

He's just a better faceoff guy than McDavid. Also, taking faceoffs on the PP means that the puck can be won directly to McDavid.

 

[stickty111]

Just rambling here ...

There is some details for the McDavid - Draisaitl that should not be overlooked.

McDavid is a center, no doubt, but with more TOI/GP then Draisaitl how is it he has dramatically fewer face-offs taken? Is that because Draisaitl is the better center, McDavid is the better offensive player?

If you are always attacking, perhaps the defensive requirements are less important.

For the Leafs perhaps (in a tier lower) Nylander's center role should be about attacking. Sort of opposite the Oilers where McDavid is the top player, with Draisaitl being the 2nd. but actually #1 center role. Matthews #1 player and #1 center, Nylander could be challenged to be the 2nd. center in an all out offensive role.

Nylander would need wingers who are not one dimensional. McDavid, RNH and Hyman. Do Leafs have anything equivalent to RNH and Hyman?

Could Berube accept a McDavid's offensive first approach?



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Marner is better than all of RNH and Hyman. With that being said, Oilers top 6 is better offensively but the key word is offensively. Defensively the top 6 Leafs have the edge. Mainly because of Matthews and Marner. McDavid and Drai can't play any hint of defence. Bottom 6 I'll give Leafs the edge too

 

[tmlfan98]

Robertson is a NHL player and will not clear waivers. He was always going to be NHL this year, earned or not earned. They weren't losing him for nothing.

Yup, it's not a roster spot he's trying to earn, it's a lineup spot. He's shown enough so far in his career, combined with now being waiver eligible, that a roster spot was already locked for him after he signed.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner is better than all of RNH and Hyman.

this type of thinking leads to perpetuating problems.

Marner is a great player. He has his skills. He's a valuable team member. No one can deny this.

What is also true is that the Toronto Maple Leaf hockey team is *NEVER* going to win a cup with the current roster. The rebuild has failed. Why has it failed ? Who is the problem ? Is it Marner ? There is an infinite number of debates.

The situation is this: Change is Needed. We need cap space to make change. The JT cap space isn't enough of a change.

There are only two choices to make change significant enough to make the amount of change needed to balance the team. One of the expensive right wingers has to go: Mitch Marner or William Nylander.

The team chose to keep Nylander. Tre picked Nylander. so MM16 is a cap casualty -> and he has to go.

Running it back is DEFINED as re-signing Mitch Marner.

Running it back is unacceptable.

MM16 = Columbus Blue Jackets.

The only other conclusion would be the Leafs don't care about winning a cup and they keep Marner. And that's quite likely.

Sad team in a sad league.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Marner is better than all of RNH and Hyman. With that being said, Oilers top 6 is better offensively but the key word is offensively. Defensively the top 6 Leafs have the edge. Mainly because of Matthews and Marner. McDavid and Drai can't play any hint of defence. Bottom 6 I'll give Leafs the edge too

Offensively though, Leon and McDavid are killers...like they don't mess around, they just end it generally. I feel like with the Leafs group they get cute, overpass, overthink things a LOT.

 

[ACC1224]

Offensively though, Leon and McDavid are killers...like they don't mess around, they just end it generally. I feel like with the Leafs group they get cute, overpass, overthink things a LOT.

It's not a feeling, they do. Beating this out of them is one of Berube's challenges.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Who's this Pear I keep hearing about?

 

[ULF_55]

Marner is better than all of RNH and Hyman. With that being said, Oilers top 6 is better offensively but the key word is offensively. Defensively the top 6 Leafs have the edge. Mainly because of Matthews and Marner. McDavid and Drai can't play any hint of defence. Bottom 6 I'll give Leafs the edge too

Knies - Matthews - marner
?Domi? - Nylander - ?

versus

NugentHopkins - McDavid - Hyman
Skinner - Draisaitl - Arvidsson

 

[stickty111]

Knies - Matthews - marner
?Domi? - Nylander - ?

versus

NugentHopkins - McDavid - Hyman
Skinner - Draisaitl - Arvidsson

You may want to reread my post.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Offensively though, Leon and McDavid are killers...like they don't mess around, they just end it generally. I feel like with the Leafs group they get cute, overpass, overthink things a LOT.

Matthews doesn't get cute, he's a shooter.
It's just easy to defend because you know Marner isn't the scoring risk.


McDavid and Leon are way faster, both are excellent shooters. Matthews and Marner both are not on the same scoring tier as McDavid and Leon.

I'd trade Matthews and Marner together for McDavid.

 

[TheDoldrums]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838962531433365957

Woll is precious

 

[ULF_55]

You may want to reread my post.

I understood your post, just curious what the Leafs line are?

Unless they revert back to:
Knies - Matthews - marner
? - Tavares - Nylander

And then who is the ?

History shows Leafs top line isn't better ... maybe it can be with different coaching?
Perhaps better defensively, but that defense isn't and hasn't won anything.

 

[WTFMAN99]

It's not a feeling, they do. Beating this out of them is one of Berube's challenges.

Even for the PP, sometimes they pass pass pass and they want just a gaping open net to shoot into....I don't mind just taking a shot if it's there...beat the goalie or aim for pads etc so you create a rebound.

 

[francis246]

Some observations from last night

Holmberg was so-so in the 1st period but I thought he came on a lot stronger in periods 2 and 3

Robertson wasn't noticeable, wasn't bad but not noticeable.

I liked Rifai-Myers pairing, big and mobile.

Stolarz/Hildeby were very good, covered up some bad play in front of them.

Timmins was fairly decent too - an okay #6

Cowan, like Robertson, he wasn't bad but not noticeable, he's going to need to look outstanding the rest of the way

Grebyonkin got caught puck chasing on the 1st goal against, I think he has *all* the tools to be a middle 6 player. He made a great play to Quillan for a clear shot but they didn't convert. He was physical and speed was evident. I think Grebyonkin is going to go to the AHL, get minutes, learn North American defensive coverage (cover the points) and just where to go to be open for shots etc.

Quillan motor was strong, I think there is a 4C there

Benoit didn't have a good game but his pre-season last year wasn't good either.

McMann and Knies were good but I thought they both, like Cowan and Grebyonkin could not line drive or dominate on their own, this line up definitely suffered with lack of quality centres.

I don't think anyone else was all that notable.

Robertson was very noticeable in a good way. His game has matured in a good way. His stick on the forecheck was really good last night.

 

[stickty111]

I understood your post, just curious what the Leafs line are?

Unless they revert back to:
Knies - Matthews - marner
? - Tavares - Nylander

And then who is the ?

History shows Leafs top line isn't better ... maybe it can be with different coaching?
Perhaps better defensively, but that defense isn't and hasn't won anything.

Probably Domi all though Jankrok makes more sense.
Never said leafs top line is better. Obviously anyone with common sense would take McDavid every day, but defensively Matthews outshines him and it's not even close.
I mean McDavid despite being better offensively hasn't won anything either so it's a moot point.

Point is both teams have great strengths but also potentially fatal flaws.
Oilers defensive core after the top pair and overall team defence which runs to the forwards too.
Leafs flaw is their offensive depth and utility among the bottom 6.

Goaltending is the same. You never know which Skinner will show up. Leafs goalies could be good or could fall apart.
Now maybe if the Oilers fire their coach and get another coach bump than they have a huge advantage. Thats what they do anyways. Blaming everything on coaching

 

[ULF_55]

Probably Domi all though Jankrok makes more sense.
Never said leafs top line is better. Obviously anyone with common sense would take McDavid every day, but defensively Matthews outshines him and it's not even close.
I mean McDavid despite being better offensively hasn't won anything either so it's a moot point.

Point is both teams have great strengths but also potentially fatal flaws.
Oilers defensive core after the top pair and overall team defence which runs to the forwards too.
Leafs flaw is their offensive depth and utility among the bottom 6.

Goaltending is the same. You never know which Skinner will show up. Leafs goalies could be good or could fall apart.
Now maybe if the Oilers fire their coach and get another coach bump than they have a huge advantage. Thats what they do anyways. Blaming everything on coaching

Oilers top 6 I think is better.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I thought Robertson showed a lot off the puck last night, battling on the wall for pucks on the forecheck. Definitely looks to be taking to the challenge laid out to him by his coach and GM. The kid wants a career in the NHL, and he appears to be willing to show it.

 

[stickty111]

Oilers top 6 I think is better.

Yes offensively and probably overall because of McDavid. Defensively not the case. Defensive core Leafs have the edge and by a decent amount too.

 

[ULF_55]

Yes offensively and probably overall because of McDavid. Defensively not the case. Defensive core Leafs have the edge and by a decent amount too.

Unfortunately goals scored seem to be more effective than goals prevented.

Out-scoring deficiencies...

 

[fahad203]

this type of thinking leads to perpetuating problems.

Marner is a great player. He has his skills. He's a valuable team member. No one can deny this.

What is also true is that the Toronto Maple Leaf hockey team is *NEVER* going to win a cup with the current roster. The rebuild has failed. Why has it failed ? Who is the problem ? Is it Marner ? There is an infinite number of debates.

The situation is this: Change is Needed. We need cap space to make change. The JT cap space isn't enough of a change.

There are only two choices to make change significant enough to make the amount of change needed to balance the team. One of the expensive right wingers has to go: Mitch Marner or William Nylander.

The team chose to keep Nylander. Tre picked Nylander. so MM16 is a cap casualty -> and he has to go.

Running it back is DEFINED as re-signing Mitch Marner.

Running it back is unacceptable.

MM16 = Columbus Blue Jackets.

The only other conclusion would be the Leafs don't care about winning a cup and they keep Marner. And that's quite likely.

Sad team in a sad league.

I mean Marner has led the team in assists for last 8 years
Out of Matthews and Nylander, he's the only one kills penalties in consistent basis and done so last 5 years

How quickly we forget who this guy is. He has 3 95 points seasons, 2 80+ points season (one prorated)

Only time in the last 20 years the leafs made it to 2nd round, is when Marner led the team in scoring in playoffs, 14 points in 11 games

Consistency has been his backbone. Only consistent player out of all 4 players we have.
Other players points go up and down by 15 points per season..... While Mitchell's number stays relatively the same. Last 3 times he played 70+ games, he has had 90+ points

Some of you are focusing on the wrong guy

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Some of you are focusing on the wrong guy

It's the *ONLY* option.

The team has already made the decision.

 

[stickty111]

Unfortunately goals scored seem to be more effective than goals prevented.

Out-scoring deficiencies...

Are you saying offense wins championships?

Seriously though, I think defence is more important is overrated. I think elite on offense and average at defence can still win if you have a good goalie.

 

[GOilers88]

https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/bMqGqdQtFR

I just saw this posted on reddit and feel like it sums up sports journalism in a nutshell. Figured you'd all get as big a kick out of it as I did, once my eyes were able to roll back to normal.

Good luck this year guys. It's high time both of our franchises get to have the last laugh for once.

 

[fahad203]

It's the *ONLY* option.

The team has already made the decision.

It was never between him and Nylander
Team has made a decision, that is not to resign Tavares or sign him to a smaller contract

That's why Nylander is playing center this year. The plan is to resign Marner and keep Nylander

Tavares will move down or not be resigned.