Training Camp continued

[Cor]

Cor mentioned ‘retroactively’ which I took to mean from when he was hurt. I don’t think they want him missing 10 games.

Yeah I fudged up the rules.

10 games brings us to the end of October. We do have a soft schedule to start the year, so might still be possible to be honest.

Especially since if we don’t, we are going to need to trade Kerfoot or Holl or possibly both prior to the season.

I’m kinda wondering if Engvall/Holl could be the two moved out.

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah I fudged up the rules.

10 games brings us to the end of October. We do have a soft schedule to start the year, so might still be possible to be honest.

Especially since if we don’t, we are going to need to trade Kerfoot or Holl or possibly both prior to the season.

I’m kinda wondering if Engvall/Holl could be the two moved out.

Was thinking the same. Kerfoot brings a lot more to the team than Engvall. Not seeing how he’ll fit or at who’s expense.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Nope, because the salary cap is not active during the off season and rosters are unlimited.

You can't accrue salary cap rebates for players on LTIR when the season hasn't started , and you have unlimited players in preseason etc as replacements for injured players.

Thanks the LTIR stuff is always a challenge for me.

 

[Cor]

Was thinking the same. Kerfoot brings a lot more to the team than Engvall. Not seeing how he’ll fit or at who’s expense.

Yup, Kerfoot is important to the secondary scoring side of things. Engvall had a good defensive game, but sort of redundant with Jarnkrok, NAK, ZAR, etc

We are 3M over the cap with a roster of;

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Holmberg - Malgin
Robertson - Kerfoot - Jarnkrok
ZAK (850K) - Kampf - NAK
Engvall
Tavares (IR)

Muzzin - Rielly
Sandin - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren
Holl

So essentially three possible options to start the year

1. Put John Tavares on LTIR to extend your decision time. Sits out first 10 games of the season (soft schedule to start)

2. Trade Alex Kerfoot. Would mean Engvall or Jarnkrok likely Center the third line, though opens up the chance for Holmberg to stick full time

3. Trade Justin Holl and Pierre Engvall

For transparency - We could TECHNICALLY trade Engvall and send down Robertson, but then we are doing 11F, 7D until Tavares is ready - but I don’t think Keefe will have any interest in that

 

[zeke]

Yup, Kerfoot is important to the secondary scoring side of things. Engvall had a good defensive game, but sort of redundant with Jarnkrok, NAK, ZAR, etc

We are 3M over the cap with a roster of;

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Holmberg - Malgin
Robertson - Kerfoot - Jarnkrok
ZAK (850K) - Kampf - NAK
Engvall
Tavares (IR)

Muzzin - Rielly
Sandin - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren
Holl

So essentially three possible options to start the year

1. Put John Tavares on LTIR to extend your decision time. Sits out first 10 games of the season (soft schedule to start)

2. Trade Alex Kerfoot. Would mean Engvall or Jarnkrok likely Center the third line, though opens up the chance for Holmberg to stick full time

3. Trade Justin Holl and Pierre Engvall

For transparency - We could TECHNICALLY trade Engvall and send down Robertson, but then we are doing 11F, 7D until Tavares is ready - but I don’t think Keefe will have any interest in that

We don't need to trade away that much cap to fit....though we could, of course.

But trading Holl alone could get us cap compliant, which probably makes sense because unlike Kerf and Engvall, Holl is likely in the press box when we're fully healthy anyways:

In the short term, with Lilly on ltir we don't have to move anyone, but would only be able to carry 20 guys and would have to have use some kind of emergency recall to replace short term injuries.

 

[Mess]

The longer term injury to Liljegen and the matching Sandin contract work out well for the Leafs cap wise.

Both players have $1.4 mil AAV.

However when Leafs place Liljegren on LTIR and name Sandin as his injury replacement their contracts over-lap perfectly.

Cap reasons Liljegren (LTIR) $1.4 + Sandin @ $1.4 mil combined only count as $1.4 mil against Leafs upper limit. Leafs get a 2-1 deal on cap hits until Lil comes off LTIR.

Once he comes off LTIR then the 2 X young Dman will count as $1.4 mil + $1.4 mil or $2.8 mil combined and Leafs will need to cut cap accordingly to accommodate both contracts.

 

[Cor]

We don't need to trade away that much cap to fit....though we could, of course.

But trading Holl alone could get us cap compliant, which probably makes sense because unlike Kerf and Engvall, Holl is likely in the press box when we're fully healthy anyways:

View attachment 590109

In the short term, with Lilly on ltir we don't have to move anyone, but would only be able to carry 20 guys and would have to have use some kind of emergency recall to replace short term injuries.

Are we sure Liljegren is going to be out long enough for LTIR? Similar situation as Tavares.

I suppose it’s a valid fourth option though. LTIR Liljegren and just accept he’ll be out until November like the Tavares scenario, and only trade one of Holl or Engvall (I assume in this scenario, they would trade Engvall over Holl).

 

[keonsbitterness]

Those injury estimates were reported as minimums, so we won't know the LTIR implications for awhile.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

Nylander looked dynamic with Malgin
Robertson looked dynamic with Malgin. (just ok/not ready otherwise)

Conclusion: Malgin is riding their coattails while leading the team in goals and points.

I honestly believe that if his name were anything but Malgin, the narrative would be different. He's not dynamic, but then again neither is a Kerfoot. He's a well rounded player who can play with skill players while not being a defensive liability.

The Leafs have been looking for complementary players who can play with stars and provide depth scoring, and Malgin is showing both. That has value. At the World Championships, he far and away led the Swiss in Pts ahead of Timo Meier, Nico Hischier, and Pius Suter - all everyday NHL'ers (and some much better).

IMO, keep Malgin to start the season, send Roberston down, and give Malgin a bit of run in a top-9. Just as easy to punt him in November is it is in preseason. But I suspect injuries will hit, and both might be here playing roles.

I love Robertson and want him up here soon, but him going down for a few weeks won't hurt.

+1 well said. Reality is both likely make it with Tavares, engvall out for the short term

 

[zeke]

Are we sure Liljegren is going to be out long enough for LTIR? Similar situation as Tavares.

I suppose it’s a valid fourth option though. LTIR Liljegren and just accept he’ll be out until November like the Tavares scenario, and only trade one of Holl or Engvall (I assume in this scenario, they would trade Engvall over Holl).

Yeah I gamed it out on another thread.

Lilly was projected out 6 weeks as of Sep 21, which puts him on track to come back right at the start of November, which is right when we hit the first 10gms/24days marks. So I'm guessing he's on LTIR.

Tavares was projected for 3 weeks out as of Sep 27, which puts him on track to miss only 4gms or so....so unless he has a setback I'm not sure they'll ltir him.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

I wouldn’t even bat an eye if we lost Anderson to waivers.

Malgin on the other hand I would love to keep around, think he can play in a top 9 role

 

[WTFMAN99]

Was thinking the same. Kerfoot brings a lot more to the team than Engvall. Not seeing how he’ll fit or at who’s expense.

Marner
Kampf
Jarnkrork
ZAR
NAK
Kerfoot

Could all PK instead of Engvall.

The raise he got and only getting 1 year of term didn't sit well with me either.

 

[Burnie97]

Guys like Nicolas Aube-Kubel, Adam Gaudette, Victor Mete etc were all passed through and claimed on waivers last year.. Leafs picked them up for depth purposes this year as UFAs.

If they go back in waivers and get claimed it won't be a Leaf specific thing, and it wouldn't be their first time, or likely the last time it will happen.

Teams are always looking for cheap depth players, mainly as injury replacements. Easy come and easy go for scrubs like this. Nobody will really care.

Things get a little more debatable when you lose self drafted and developed players on waivers, to protect scrubs and then release those scrubs on waivers later.

Losing a guy Leafs developed is a little different forsure for obvious reasons. Otherwise not to concerned. I hope when it comes to fringe players they'll make the right decisions but not going to lose sleep over it.

 

[Mess]

Are we sure Liljegren is going to be out long enough for LTIR? Similar situation as Tavares.

I suppose it’s a valid fourth option though. LTIR Liljegren and just accept he’ll be out until November like the Tavares scenario, and only trade one of Holl or Engvall (I assume in this scenario, they would trade Engvall over Holl).

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Will Engvall be ready for the start of the season? Haven't heard much news about him.

 

[Mess]

Will Engvall be ready for the start of the season? Haven't heard much news about him.

Dubas shared some other injury updates on Wednesday, revealing that forward Pierre Engvall is out with a foot/ankle injury. He will be re-evaluated on Oct. 3, with the Maple Leafs set to open the regular season on Oct. 12 against the Montreal Canadiens.

The 26-year-old had 15 goals and 35 points in 78 games last season, adding three assists in seven playoff games.

 

[Cor]

Yeah I gamed it out on another thread.

Lilly was projected out 6 weeks as of Sep 21, which puts him on track to come back right at the start of November, which is right when we hit the first 10gms/24days marks. So I'm guessing he's on LTIR.

Tavares was projected for 3 weeks out as of Sep 27, which puts him on track to miss only 4gms or so....so unless he has a setback I'm not sure they'll ltir him.

Hmmm.

In that scenario we still need to make a move, just only one of Kerf, Engvall and Holl prior to the start of the season.

Interesting.

Leafs final pre-season games are October 7th and 8th. Generally the Leafs want their final lineup set for those games - at least the one on the 8th.

So, unless we are LTIRing Tavares, which would extend his timeline, there will likely be a trade prior to next weekend, and obviously, at the latest, prior to the 11th

 

[rocketman588]

I think if it's the decision waiving Malgin is relatively low risk at this point.

It's easier to waive him now then it would be in the middle of the season. Plus at that point you get the 30 days of free movement to figure out how he fits.

If Robertson is even a possibility in your mind you don't send him down. Give him a run and see if he's actually able to stick instead of risking crushing his confidence

 

[Mess]

I think if it's the decision waiving Malgin is relatively low risk at this point.

It's easier to waive him now then it would be in the middle of the season. Plus at that point you get the 30 days of free movement to figure out how he fits.

If Robertson is even a possibility in your mind you don't send him down. Give him a run and see if he's actually able to stick instead of risking crushing his confidence

The Leafs waived Malgin last year as he returned to the Swiss league and went unclaimed.

However this year his play in camp has significantly improved from the last time he was a Leaf 2 years ago and if he ended up on waivers this time more likely to get claimed. IMO

The fact that Robertson is waiver exempt might determine who stays and who goes.

 

[rocketman588]

The Leafs waived Malgin last year as he returned to the Swiss league and went unclaimed.

However this year his play in camp has significantly improved from the last time he was a Leaf 2 years ago and if he ended up on waivers this time more likely to get claimed. IMO

The fact that Robertson is waiver exempt might determine who stays and who goes.

I think timing wise it is a relatively good time to do it

A lot of teams will have full rosters so there won't be a long lineup ( I mean besides maybe the yotes). We'll see what happens I guess but if we think Robertson can play then play him

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I'm seriously conflicted when it comes to Engvall. On one hand his versatility and pk skills give me no doubt as to his ability to give value for the contract, and contribute to the team, solid top 9 player.

On the other, given our cap situation and plethora of depth options I think the bolder move would have been to not qualify him and give the kids a chance to fill the spot

He's also shown flashes of offense. He had 35 pts last season. Wouldnt be surprised if he has a 50 pt season or two in him. Especially if he was given an opportunity on that 2nd line with JT and Nylander. I'm curious to see what he can do this year.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Need a good goon

 

[Mess]

I think timing wise it is a relatively good time to do it

A lot of teams will have full rosters so there won't be a long lineup ( I mean besides maybe the yotes). We'll see what happens I guess but if we think Robertson can play then play him

Agreed a lot of teams put a bulk load of players on waivers in the next 2 weeks as they get ready for setting rosters for opening night.

Both the volume of players on waivers as well as team focused on their own teams and cut downs allows many players to slip though waivers unclaimed.

Later in the year when injuries mount around the league and you put a play on waivers it is much harder to slip them down to the AHL unclaimed, when the entire waiver wire only includes a few players.

The team argument would be why risk the loss when another player who is waiver wire ineligible could be sent up and down freely..

However I'm with you and "play the kids" ..

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

To those of you who are familiar with emergency call up rules, what stops the Leafs from starting the season short 1 or 2 players so they are cap compliant and just using emergency call-ups for the rest of the season? This way they wouldn't even have to trade anybody.

 

[Zonk]

I would be surprised if Malgin returned to North America to play in the AHL. Does anyone know if he has an out clause in his contract that he can return to Europe if he does not make the Leafs?