Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[NYR Viper]

I think it's just shock effect for some posters. He is literally one of the slower players in the league, so for a first time watching closely, it does stand out for some people.

Question is... whether his game can handle the additional lost step of age, or if the Stepan effect will render him near useless. I'd wager his size helps him like it did Joe Thornton.

Nash was another. He lost a step but was still extremely effective. The big guys, especially the guys who have good hockey intelligence as I think Wheeler does, can still be good contributors as they get older

I wasn't able to watch this one as it was on NHL Network but there seemed to be a lot of chatter about Hollowell. He's another undersized offensive d-man. What were the take-aways there?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Being a good skater and looking like you're fast are two very different things. He is a good skater for his size. Most guys his size can't skate like he can at 23, let alone 37. His stride from my recollection has always been more of a lumbering stride which makes sense, the guy is HUGE.

But his game has been more about positioning and reach then straight speed

Wheeler was a fast player, he's still not slow, his stride makes him look that way. He relied a lot on his speed and size over the years. He's a fantastic signing for us.

I honestly don’t think it’s a secret that everyone seems to think the line is better with kakko on it. Whether it’s Mika’s line or saying let’s see kakko wirh chytil or Panarin or then last night saying kakko looks really good with Trocheck on a true checking line. The kid is becoming a really really good two way player. He just needs the pts to come. But man he looked like a well MAN yesterday.

Nah this can't be true all our kids are busts

 

[Fitzy]

Nash was another. He lost a step but was still extremely effective. The big guys, especially the guys who have good hockey intelligence as I think Wheeler does, can still be good contributors as they get older

I wasn't able to watch this one as it was on NHL Network but there seemed to be a lot of chatter about Hollowell. He's another undersized offensive d-man. What were the take-aways there?

He seems to have quicker feet than Zac Jones, which could help him get out of sticky situations behind the net easier.

That was all I was able to discern from one game

 

[duhmetreE]

Kreider Zibs Laffy
Panarin Chytil Wheeler
Othmann Trocheck Kakko

 

[Levitate]

I think a lot of the criticism behind Laviolette is really based off of recent history (his Washington tenure was ass.) It's relevant though and way more relevant than his previous stops in Nashville, Philly and Carolina (all of which were overwhelmingly positive.) If this hire was made fresh off of his stint in Nashville the feeling would have been way more positive.

Plus it just seemed lazy. Its interesting that they went pretty far along into the process with Pascal Vincent as well which makes me think that the "younger" staff around Lavi was more or less a requirement if he wanted to take the job. I wonder if putting that staff together was really the hold up in him being hired and if he was turned down by the other guys he would have been passed over by Dru.

I mean, Lavy came to Washington to try to ring another cup run out of an aging over the hill group that just didn't have it anymore. His failures in Washington have more to do with personnel and maybe to some extent players like Kuznetsov who cry "he just wasn't the right coach for us!" while not acknowledging how his game and his fellow vets in Washington have declined.

Also since Lavy has worked with these "young" assistant coaches before in various places I doubt eh was forced to do so by management.

He was also brought here to win a cup with a team with skilled veterans that aren't over the hill yet but don't have a ton of time in front of them either. Now if he's good, then he'll figure out how to also get the best out of the young skilled players the team has...

I do generally think that Lavy, and most coaches, will play who they think is the most helpful. If they thought Othaman earned it or was a better choice for the lineup than say Goodrow on the 3rd line they'd do it, BUT it's also really hard to prove that as a young player and displace a well known vet who is prized for various reasons.

Anyways, blah. MOving on, maybe Im' wrong but I also didn't quite feel like Othman managed to get into position to use his shot enough during hte game and I'd like to see that out of him.

 

[Dijock94]

If you want a more jumpy lineup you have to bump up the young players.

Panarin Zibanejad Lafreniere
Kreider Chytil Kakko
Cuylle Trocheck Wheeler
Goodrow Bonino Vesey
Pitlick

Play Othmann on the RW in the AHL for the year to prep to replace Wheeler

 

[Mandar]

You could see better neutral zone play last night....hope it continues to improve. We gave up the neutral zone all the time last year, and gave the other team basically a free zone entry.

Hay....its my 10-year HFB anniversary today!!....time flies.....hope you all have a great day!!

 

[NYR Viper]

Kreider Zibs Laffy
Panarin Chytil Wheeler
Othmann Trocheck Kakko

I could get behind some combination of these players or sub Cuylle in for Othmann

 

[Kovalev27]

Wheeler isn’t a top line player anymore so he stuck out a bit last night but when slotted correctly I think he’ll be effective. I just worry about his defending particularly if he’s playing on what should be a checking type line with Trocheck. Doesn’t seem like lavy is going to be able to do that with the personnel and may have to give those mins to the 4th line.

 

[Levitate]

You could see better neutral zone play last night....hope it continues to improve. We gave up the neutral zone all the time last year, and gave the other team basically a free zone entry.

Hay....its my 10-year HFB anniversary today!!....time flies.....hope you all have a great day!!

team never had any plan last year for what to do on transition, on offense, or in the neutral zone, so not surprising they got burned through there a lot.

You'd have a disorganized transition game unable to bring the puck across with speed a lot of the times, an ill timed dump, guys trying to chase but hopelessly behind because of the timing, everyone TRYING to step up and forecheck but a step too late and get trapped deep as the other team goes the other way leaving 2 D with no backup and no choice but to concede the neutral zone and blueline unless they were Fox who would make fantastic reads over and over to break things up but get burnt occasionally and have people shake their heads at how terrible a year he was having

it's a very obviously show of how some team system and cohesion is important in the NHL! Gallant always relied on chemistry and guys just figuring it out within an overall very loose system and that didn't work consistently

 

[E-Train]

I could get behind some combination of these players or sub Cuylle in for Othmann

I could as well but it’s not happening to start the season. No chance Jimothy, Goodrow, Bonino & Pitlick don’t make up the last 4 F spots. Cuylle and Othmann will both get looks as the season progresses.

 

[cwede]

This is NOT meant as a direct-comparison, or projection of what Rempe might become

But watching Rempe, at 21, take on the toughest guy in their lineup,
gave me a Troy Mallette throwback vibe

 

[IDvsEGO]

I don't see it that way. Agree to disagree. Kreider is part of the core by his contract size. When you say the kids "will determine if we’re a 1st rd exit or a Stanley cup winner," you seem to be implying that you're trusting the veterans are locked in to give what the team needs. You only need to look at Panarin and his playoff performances in NY to debunk that. Yes, Lavi has raved about Cuylle and Othmann, who I think looks ready to be with the club. But I fully expect them to begin in Hartford. Are they really going to take jobs away from the likes of Pitlick and Bonino? We'll see them later this season to cover for injuries, etc.

Lavi's team is still going to be a veteran team, that's my take.

Panarin and his playoff, lead to a first rd loss, but we also had spent the preceding 3 weeks minimizing any impact the kids could have in the playoffs.
My statement stands

 

[Daves a mess]

This is NOT meant as a direct-comparison, or projection of what Rempe might become

But watching Rempe, at 21, take on the toughest guy in their lineup,
gave me a Troy Mallette throwback vibe

Ross Johnston is just about the toughest guy in ANY lineup. Rempe earned Ross's respect after that excellent showing. Johnston has a sore schnoodle today. No doubt.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I mean, Lavy came to Washington to try to ring another cup run out of an aging over the hill group that just didn't have it anymore. His failures in Washington have more to do with personnel and maybe to some extent players like Kuznetsov who cry "he just wasn't the right coach for us!" while not acknowledging how his game and his fellow vets in Washington have declined.

Also since Lavy has worked with these "young" assistant coaches before in various places I doubt eh was forced to do so by management.

He was also brought here to win a cup with a team with skilled veterans that aren't over the hill yet but don't have a ton of time in front of them either. Now if he's good, then he'll figure out how to also get the best out of the young skilled players the team has...

I do generally think that Lavy, and most coaches, will play who they think is the most helpful. If they thought Othaman earned it or was a better choice for the lineup than say Goodrow on the 3rd line they'd do it, BUT it's also really hard to prove that as a young player and displace a well known vet who is prized for various reasons.

Anyways, blah. MOving on, maybe Im' wrong but I also didn't quite feel like Othman managed to get into position to use his shot enough during hte game and I'd like to see that out of him.

Well not exactly.

Lavi scapegoated the young guys and gave certain vets free reign to do what ever they wanted with out consequence (sound familiar?) This was pretty well documented which didn't help matters to go along with a team that looked increasingly listless and whose age did eventually catch up with them. I actually don't think that the Rangers' situation (or expectations) are all to far from where the Caps were or wanted when Lavi was hired there, aside from Igor and Fox being elite at their positions and that our "star" Russian can't play in the playoffs.

On the assistant coach front - None of his from Washington followed him here. I know that the connections with him and the other guys already existed but the guys who were eventually hired were done so with an obvious mindset. Whether that was Lavi's or not I have no idea, I happen to lean towards it not being that but he was given input into guys who fit the bill who were eventually hired. The assistants are what have softened up a bunch of people (myself included) on his hiring to begin with.

 

[McRanger92]

The rebuild is dead. Long live the rebuild.

Just going from one rebuild to another, because we never fully committed to the first one and it shows.

I dont even know what you mean by this? Should we have lost more? 5th most points in the league over the past 2 seasons

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I dont even know what you mean by this? Should we have lost more? 5th most points in the league over the past 2 seasons

A rebuild is not defined by how many points you get.

 

[McRanger92]

A rebuild is not defined by how many points you get.

What is it defined by then?

 

[SRHRangers]

What is it defined by then?

It's technically not a rebuild when you immediately sign Panarin, Trouba, and resigned Krieder.

That's a reload.

It is what it is though.

 

[LORDE]

The rebuild is dead. Long live the rebuild.

Just going from one rebuild to another, because we never fully committed to the first one and it shows.

Sadly this.

If we actually committed to the 1st rebuild we'd be further along.

This is why I don't wanna any 1sts (no matter how late) being sent out. Make your pick. Maybe it works out.

We're good enough (& will be) to get into the playoffs & that's about it sadly.

 

[Fitzy]

I could as well but it’s not happening to start the season. No chance Jimothy, Goodrow, Bonino & Pitlick don’t make up the last 4 F spots. Cuylle and Othmann will both get looks as the season progresses.

I think the spot to be won is Pitlicks. (Apple keeps trying to correct to Potluck)

He's a 13th forward in an ideal setting. Vesey-Bonino-Goodrow can be the 4th line if a kid makes it.

 

[McRanger92]

It's technically not a rebuild when you immediately sign Panarin, Trouba, and resigned Krieder.

That's a reload.

It is what it is though.

"Rebuild" "Reload" it's all semantics. What I do know is that as a fan, watching the Rangers deliberately be bad under Gorton and Davidson was some of the least fun I've ever had watching this team. It didn't help that their mixed messaging had the fanbase at each others throats. I dont care how we got to this point, but it certainly feels that this team has the actual elements needed to win a Cup, which the Lundqvist-era Rangers of my childhood never once had. It wasnt a straight line, but I'm pleased with how it all turned oout from a big picture perspective. Now lets never do it again.

 

[Fitzy]

Sadly this.

If we actually committed to the 1st rebuild we'd be further along.

This is why I don't wanna any 1sts (no matter how late) being sent out. Make your pick. Maybe it works out.

We're good enough (& will be) to get into the playoffs & that's about it sadly.

I don't understand what you mean by 'commit to the first rebuild'

Do you mean not signing bread? Not re-signing Mika and Kreider? Not trading for Trouba?

Because even if you think any of those choices are poor, I think it strains credulity that we'd be "farther along" without any of those players than with them.

Even if you assume somehow Laf and Kakko with more ice time become equivalent players to what Panarin and Kreider are today, that still leaves us with a hole in the lineup behind them. Who's filling that? Kravtsov?

 

[McRanger92]

I don't understand what you mean by 'commit to the first rebuild'

Do you mean not signing bread? Not re-signing Mika and Kreider? Not trading for Trouba?

Because even if you think any of those choices are poor, I think it strains credulity that we'd be "farther along" without any of those players than with them.

Even if you assume somehow Laf and Kakko with more ice time become equivalent players to what Panarin and Kreider are today, that still leaves us with a hole in the lineup behind them. Who's filling that? Kravtsov?

We'd be much much farther behind where we are now if we "committed" to a rebuild lol. I'm certainly not jealous of the Sabres, Red Wings and Senators going into year 10 of theirs. Maybe this will be the year! But I doubt it!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

We'd be much much farther behind where we are now if we "committed" to a rebuild lol. I'm certainly not jealous of the Sabres, Red Wings and Senators going into year 10 of theirs. Maybe this will be the year! But I doubt it!

A rebuild isn't a guarantee for success, but almost every team in the salary cap era that won, has gone through one.

It's the whole "Not every animal is a cow, but every cow is an animal" debate.