Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[NYR94]

More like Mike No amirite? dude is mid

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The problem with coaches is that no gm wants to hang their career on an inexperienced coach, so the retreads go round and round

I'm okay with Oth on the 3rd line, 4th line or in Hartford. Whatever the coaches think is best. There are pluses to all 3 options. He can learn from all 3 options. I do not think Vesey nor Goodrow have to be locked in to the 3rd line.

3rd line or Hartford for me. We have enough good roster players to put him in a place to succeed and learn on the 3rd line and if he's 4th line, let him play top line in the ahl.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

2. Laviolette feels like a breath of fresh air, ironically enough considering all the retread talk around him. Maybe it's just because we're coming off a coach who had no clue what he was doing in Quinn and another who seemed like he didn't even know his players' names or care to teach them anything in Gallant, but Lavi has been pretty impressive to me thus far. His pressers are great and he gives very well thought out answers where it's very clear he has full conviction and understanding of what and why he's doing. It really feels like there is someone with a legitimate plan in place with the knowledge and understanding on how to execute it and the experience to command respect in the room and have full belief in what he's doing.

I think a lot of the criticism behind Laviolette is really based off of recent history (his Washington tenure was ass.) It's relevant though and way more relevant than his previous stops in Nashville, Philly and Carolina (all of which were overwhelmingly positive.) If this hire was made fresh off of his stint in Nashville the feeling would have been way more positive.

Plus it just seemed lazy. Its interesting that they went pretty far along into the process with Pascal Vincent as well which makes me think that the "younger" staff around Lavi was more or less a requirement if he wanted to take the job. I wonder if putting that staff together was really the hold up in him being hired and if he was turned down by the other guys he would have been passed over by Dru.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The problem with coaches is that no gm wants to hang their career on an inexperienced coach, so the retreads go round and round



3rd line or Hartford for me. We have enough good roster players to put him in a place to succeed and learn on the 3rd line and if he's 4th line, let him play top line in the ahl.

No GM wants to risk their own career on a coach that can not coach well. If Laf had shown he could not coach after all these years no GM would be seeking him out. People use things that work a lot. If they do not work they would not be used for 20 years.

I trust the coaches judgement. I feel players can learn a lot in practice. It would be great if he could be on the 3rd line. I do not think Vesey nor Goody need to be on the 3rd line. Many guys who have had success played some on the 4th line. I'm okay with the AHL as well. Each situation has pluses and minuses.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Considering how much of a boys club the entire nhl is, I’d argue that’s not always the case.
How many kicks at a gm job has chia had?
There’s plenty of nhl coaches who should never get second chances, but have had 3rd.
Look at mike yeo?

LOL Laf has been coaching for 22 years. He has been to 3 cup finals with 3 teams. He has won a cup. GM's know whether he can coach or not. No coach lasts 22 years if he can not coach.

 

[NYR Viper]

The comments about Wheeler are kind of funny to me. Wheeler has ALWAYS been a player who looks like he is moving in a bit of slow motion at times. Even when he was on Team USA at the Olympics or putting up close to 100 points he had the same visuals. His game has always been about positioning, using his stick to steal pucks and clog lanes and then great positioning in the offensive zone. He's also not allergic to playing in and around the net.

 

[McRanger92]

The comments about Wheeler are kind of funny to me. Wheeler has ALWAYS been a player who looks like he is moving in a bit of slow motion at times. Even when he was on Team USA at the Olympics or putting up close to 100 points he had the same visuals. His game has always been about positioning, using his stick to steal pucks and clog lanes and then great positioning in the offensive zone. He's also not allergic to playing in and around the net.

Even in a low intensity game like yesterday, his hand-eye coordination breaking up pucks was noticeable. Being in Winnipeg his whole career has distracted from the fact that he has had a borderline HoF career. A couple solid seasons here gets him easily over 1000 points and, God willing, a Cup on an 06 team could put him over the edge.

 

[TGWL]

2. Laviolette feels like a breath of fresh air,

I still don't know how it's going to work out or if the players will turn on him, but it's refreshing to see a coach put actual sentences together.

 

[SA16]

The comments about Wheeler are kind of funny to me. Wheeler has ALWAYS been a player who looks like he is moving in a bit of slow motion at times. Even when he was on Team USA at the Olympics or putting up close to 100 points he had the same visuals. His game has always been about positioning, using his stick to steal pucks and clog lanes and then great positioning in the offensive zone. He's also not allergic to playing in and around the net.

What? Wheeler was always known as a great skater for someone his size. It's just recently that since he's old and a few repeat equate old with slow/bad skater and it gets harped on repeatedly. His skating is fine.

 

[will1066]

I see it as, the vets + kids will be the core of this team, and they’ll go as far as they can.
The team will go as far as they can with the kids driving, where the vets are the backbone and frame of the team, but the kids are the ones who will determine if we’re a 1st rd exit or a Stanley cup winner.

guys like Othmann and cuylle may never core forwards, but they’ll be suplemental pieces.
Similar to how I don’t see Kreider as a core piece, to Mika/Panarin/fox.

Additionally we added virtually no one, and tons of bottom 6 depth, but we had/have at least one open middle 6 spot for a winger.
Lavi has raved about cuylle, he’s been open about Othmann and talked about what he’s done well, and not so well.

I get the drury hate, I really do, it’s impossible to like drury after moving buch, and getting almost nothing back.
But every move since then has been fairly shrewd and has shown an understanding of pieces the team needs.
Copp+ vatrano+motte were brilliant deadline adds for almost nothing at the time.
Tarasenko was also a great add. Motte was a great grab for Pennies.
Kane was a forced addition for close to nothing.

Wheeler and quick are making Pennies and are guys who came here to win, they’re gonna accept lesser roles, and do what’s asked of them. Those are guys we should want on our team.

The more I hear laviolette speak, the more I really like the hire. The team has played faster than we’ve really seen. He’s giving kids shots. He’s saying all the right things, and he’s adaptable.
Pretty sure drury told him on his interview, if you want to win, the kids need to be productive. Can you do that.
And he’s taken that and run with it.

I don't see it that way. Agree to disagree. Kreider is part of the core by his contract size. When you say the kids "will determine if we’re a 1st rd exit or a Stanley cup winner," you seem to be implying that you're trusting the veterans are locked in to give what the team needs. You only need to look at Panarin and his playoff performances in NY to debunk that. Yes, Lavi has raved about Cuylle and Othmann, who I think looks ready to be with the club. But I fully expect them to begin in Hartford. Are they really going to take jobs away from the likes of Pitlick and Bonino? We'll see them later this season to cover for injuries, etc.

Lavi's team is still going to be a veteran team, that's my take.

 

[DanielBrassard]

One thing that was very noticeable last night was just how aggressive Miller was joining and sometimes leading the rush, even moreso than I recall him ever doing so under Gallant. Its going to be interesting to see just how much free reign he has to do so with Laviolette.

 

[NYR Viper]

What? Wheeler was always known as a great skater for someone his size. It's just recently that since he's old and a few repeat equate old with slow/bad skater and it gets harped on repeatedly. His skating is fine.

Being a good skater and looking like you're fast are two very different things. He is a good skater for his size. Most guys his size can't skate like he can at 23, let alone 37. His stride from my recollection has always been more of a lumbering stride which makes sense, the guy is HUGE.

But his game has been more about positioning and reach then straight speed

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think people need to come to terms with the fact that the rebuild is over too. Some have been slow to adjust to the new reality

The rebuild is dead. Long live the rebuild.

Just going from one rebuild to another, because we never fully committed to the first one and it shows.

 

[RGY]

Gustafsson has a good shot and can move the puck. Played physical too. That 6D race is already over, the rest is to keep up appearances, protect against injury and build Jones trade value.

Agreed. While it has only been 1 preseason game for each, they both showed what they have been showing in their respective careers. Gustafsson was and is the better player for the 6th spot. He confirmed that last night. In fact he should make for a pretty damn good 6th DMan on the depth chart. He really gets involved. Way more noticeable than Jones. At both ends of the ice. And that really is the problem for Jones.

 

[IDvsEGO]

The rebuild is dead. Long live the rebuild.

Just going from one rebuild to another, because we never fully committed to the first one and it shows.

oh so we should now go out and trade mika, fox,shesty, and panarin so that we can be the ducks?

I get this is HF, and so everyone loves prospects, but this is blind to the fact that somehow the rangers have an extremely deep team, and if lavi can get laf and kakko to come much closer to their draft positions, the rangers will be a powerhouse.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think what people are not understanding is that the Rangers were fortunate to get Kaako and Lafreniere but they came in almost too early in the rebuild. The depth pieces that were selected in or around that same time required more time to marinate and develop. We are starting to see some of these guys, along with other assets Drury has been able to accumulate begin to percolate to the top. We see that in Berard, Cuylle, Rempe, Edstrom. These are later picks who take some time. Same goes for Robertson, Jones, Scanlin and Emberson. These are all depth pieces that take 3-5 years to develop, if they ever develop.

There was a large gap between then the 18-19 year old Kaako and Lafreniere made the team and what we see now as other young players pushing for spots.

It also doesn't help that the team has been pushing for the playoffs on the back of a young veteran group already here that was augmented by those same young players. Unless you want to trade all of the veterans, a full scorched earth rebuild just wasn't possible based on what they had at their fingertips.

 

[Profet]

The rebuild is dead. Long live the rebuild.

Just going from one rebuild to another, because we never fully committed to the first one and it shows.

Well that and rebuilds don't work out when your highest picks fizzle.

This rebuild looks a lot different if our first and/or second overall is a generational or even a super star level talent.

Not to mention our second tier picks: Andersson, Kravtsov.

You can't trade away talent in order to secure higher picks to only have those picks not show up or under perform.

I don't think it's a commitment issue, it's a drafting and talent evaluation issue.

I'm hopefully that this has already been resolved, but this rebuild was basically DOA with the talent that was available and the picks that were made.

 

[Kovalev27]

I for one, to the point about coming off Nashville stint, have wanted Laviolette for years. He’s a hell of a coach. An actual real coach. Quinn and Gallant are not good coaches. Gallant you knew would have a shelf life of like a year basically. Quinn isn’t an nhl coach. This group like I said earlier this week has not had a legit systems real coach. Just hasn’t. So the excitement for this year is that really. Seeing this core with an actual system in place.

 

[Profet]

I for one to the point about coming off Nashville stint have wanted Laviolette for years. He’s a hell of a coach. An actual real coach. Quinn and Gallant are not good coaches. Gallant you knew would have a shelf life of like a year basically. Quinn isn’t an nhl coach. This group like I said earlier this week has not had a legit systems real coach. Just hasn’t. So the excitement for this year is that really. Seeing this core with an actual system in place.

Agreed... I was very much against Lavy as I was unsure of his systems.

That said, I'm happy to eat crow, and last nights game you could already see the short neutral zone pass was being practiced. An actual system to get up the ice... who'd have thunk it?

 

[duhmetreE]

One thing that was very noticeable last night was just how aggressive Miller was joining and sometimes leading the rush, even moreso than I recall him ever doing so under Gallant. Its going to be interesting to see just how much free reign he has to do so with Laviolette.

Defensemen were activating even more so in the offensive zone keeping the play alive or creating back lanes

I for one to the point about coming off Nashville stint have wanted Laviolette for years. He’s a hell of a coach. An actual real coach. Quinn and Gallant are not good coaches. Gallant you knew would have a shelf life of like a year basically. Quinn isn’t an nhl coach. This group like I said earlier this week has not had a legit systems real coach. Just hasn’t. So the excitement for this year is that really. Seeing this core with an actual system in place.

And I think we will continue to get better as the season rolls along.

I know I was in the minority but I always thought Washington was a very solid team. The one team I didn’t want to face. Last year obviously being the exception with the injuries.

 

[Kovalev27]

I think what people are not understanding is that the Rangers were fortunate to get Kaako and Lafreniere but they came in almost too early in the rebuild. The depth pieces that were selected in or around that same time required more time to marinate and develop. We are starting to see some of these guys, along with other assets Drury has been able to accumulate begin to percolate to the top. We see that in Berard, Cuylle, Rempe, Edstrom. These are later picks who take some time. Same goes for Robertson, Jones, Scanlin and Emberson. These are all depth pieces that take 3-5 years to develop, if they ever develop.

There was a large gap between then the 18-19 year old Kaako and Lafreniere made the team and what we see now as other young players pushing for spots.

It also doesn't help that the team has been pushing for the playoffs on the back of a young veteran group already here that was augmented by those same young players. Unless you want to trade all of the veterans, a full scorched earth rebuild just wasn't possible based on what they had at their fingertips.

I don’t know we had a lot of guys in place already. The bigger issue is the rangers were never bad enough to truely deserved 1st and 2nd overall pics. When you have a Zibanejad Kreider Panarin and even buchnevich on the roster that blocks guys from truely being THE guys coming into the organization. Kakko and laf have never been THE guys here because those vets have always been there. Bedard stuztle Hughes etc walked into orgs where there are literally nobodies on the team ahead of them really. I think both will find their way. Kakko this year I think takes a big step. Lafreniere maybe it’s this year maybe it’s next year he’s still younger than kakko. But not getting those big mins and powerplay time in games that don’t matter really will always be what has held these guys back.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

oh so we should now go out and trade mika, fox,shesty, and panarin so that we can be the ducks?

I get this is HF, and so everyone loves prospects, but this is blind to the fact that somehow the rangers have an extremely deep team, and if lavi can get laf and kakko to come much closer to their draft positions, the rangers will be a powerhouse.

I'm not saying that's what I want

But let's be realistic here. They never fully comitted to the rebuild. Their window would open about now if they had. And in an ideal situation, that window would be open for at least a decade with the pipeline providing us with young contributing players regularly.

We are not in that situation. Kreider, Zibanejad, Panarin, Trouba, Trocheck and Goodrow represent the veteran group, while Kakko, Lafrenière, Fox, Chytil, Lindgren, Othmann, Perreault, Sýkora etc represent the younger generation.

There's no real group of players in that 25-30 range. We have players that are either very young, or already past their prime. But we have to make due with what we have.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I for one to the point about coming off Nashville stint have wanted Laviolette for years. He’s a hell of a coach. An actual real coach. Quinn and Gallant are not good coaches. Gallant you knew would have a shelf life of like a year basically. Quinn isn’t an nhl coach. This group like I said earlier this week has not had a legit systems real coach. Just hasn’t. So the excitement for this year is that really. Seeing this core with an actual system in place.

Agree and with this, I'm hoping for a much better recognition of personnel and how they should fit into the system. Not just by Lav but the entire coaching staff. Implementing a little more analytics, not being afraid to try some different things with a fresh set of eyes, but also have the patience to see how things pan out.

Always felt like both Quinn and Gallant were too quick to move things around and within a period go right back to their comfort zone out of fear.

Ie:

Kreider and Trocheck getting a little less EVS minutes in more of a forecheck driving line
Kakko not getting bounced around all over the place and maxing his puck possession skills
Lindgren/Miller being potentially flipped to help round out the top 4 and provide Trouba some assistance
Playing Goodrow where he should be on the 4th/PK role

 

[Fitzy]

The comments about Wheeler are kind of funny to me. Wheeler has ALWAYS been a player who looks like he is moving in a bit of slow motion at times. Even when he was on Team USA at the Olympics or putting up close to 100 points he had the same visuals. His game has always been about positioning, using his stick to steal pucks and clog lanes and then great positioning in the offensive zone. He's also not allergic to playing in and around the net.

I think it's just shock effect for some posters. He is literally one of the slower players in the league, so for a first time watching closely, it does stand out for some people.

Question is... whether his game can handle the additional lost step of age, or if the Stepan effect will render him near useless. I'd wager his size helps him like it did Joe Thornton.

 

[Kovalev27]

I honestly don’t think it’s a secret that everyone seems to think the line is better with kakko on it. Whether it’s Mika’s line or saying let’s see kakko wirh chytil or Panarin or then last night saying kakko looks really good with Trocheck on a true checking line. The kid is becoming a really really good two way player. He just needs the pts to come. But man he looked like a well MAN yesterday.