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Training Camp and Preseason Discussion

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Bandit said:
Sure, but a couple of the biggest goals in the history of the franchise. Sure I wish he would have been better for us all around, but I can never hate on the guy for what he did to help us get our first cup.
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He had his moments, but for what he earned the output in production wasn't there. How many times was he a healthy scratch the past two seasons? How many teams could afford to scratch a player who earned over $3M that was supposed to play a top six role? While I certainly don't hate him and found him to be somewhat useful at times when he asserted himself physically, I'm also not going to turn a blind eye and forget about the frustrations and lack of production that he exhibited.

Gary Shuchuk and Mike Donnelly scored big goals for the Kings in '93. How often are they remembered? Penner will be a good trivia question answer in a couple of years. The play of others is what will be memorable from that Cup run, not Penner's brief moments of brilliance. Hell, Dustin Brown should get an assist on that game winning goal in OT, the Coyotes were completely discombobulated after Brown wrecked Rozsival.

Uwe Krupp also scored a Stanley Cup winning goal in OT. I don't know how fondly Avs fans remember him. If we're going to appreciate players for what they did in spurts, why not hold Dwight King to higher regard? After all, he was one of the more productive wingers for the Kings during the 2012 playoffs.
 
Exactly. The bottom line is Penner scored 11 goals in 117 regular season games and 7 in 44 playoff games. Those are not numbers of a 3-4 million player who has scored 20-30 goals many times.

Those are the same stats are Chris Neil in regular season and playoffs. Actually Neil scored 13 goals two season ago, more than Penner.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
He had his moments, but for what he earned the output in production wasn't there. How many times was he a healthy scratch the past two seasons? How many teams could afford to scratch a player who earned over $3M that was supposed to play a top six role? While I certainly don't hate him and found him to be somewhat useful at times when he asserted himself physically, I'm also not going to turn a blind eye and forget about the frustrations and lack of production that he exhibited.

Gary Shuchuk and Mike Donnelly scored big goals for the Kings in '93. How often are they remembered? Penner will be a good trivia question answer in a couple of years. The play of others is what will be memorable from that Cup run, not Penner's brief moments of brilliance. Hell, Dustin Brown should get an assist on that game winning goal in OT, the Coyotes were completely discombobulated after Brown wrecked Rozsival.

Uwe Krupp also scored a Stanley Cup winning goal in OT. I don't know how fondly Avs fans remember him. If we're going to appreciate players for what they did in spurts, why not hold Dwight King to higher regard? After all, he was one of the more productive wingers for the Kings during the 2012 playoffs.
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We didn't win it all in '93, but I do remember Suchuck's OT goal against the Canucks quite vividly. Also I do hold King in a regard than most do around here. :) I guess I just don't see what the point is of harping on Penner now that he's gone, especially when we very well may have not won the cup without him. We got the cup, he's gone now, hopefully Frattin is an upgrade... win/win/win as far as I'm concerned.
 
My only issue with Penner is when people say "OMGZ Playoff Penner" as if he was a consistent, productive offensive threat.

You can fondly recall his contributions AND acknowledge that, in the big picture, he was unreliable.
 
Bandit said:
Yeah, what did that stiff ever do for us:



:sarcasm:
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Bandit said:
Sure, but a couple of the biggest goals in the history of the franchise. Sure I wish he would have been better for us all around, but I can never hate on the guy for what he did to help us get our first cup.
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I will applaud him for one decent playoff in 2012. That's it. Frankly I'd rather hold Dwight King to higher regard than Penner though, as he actually did more in those playoffs, at least in my opinion. Penner happened to be in the right place at the right time in game 5 against Pheonix. Don't forget, he scored all of three goals that post-season in 20 games.

There have been plenty of goals in Kings history, many memorable. Penner's is one, but I highly doubt we lose that series without Penner. He just happened to be the guy that got to put the icing on the cake (which he likely ate immediately anyways).

Kudos on the cool goal Penner, but 18 goals in 161 total games as a King doesn't inspire me to hold his image holy.
 
DSutter on Frattin:

On what he has appreciated that Frattin has brought, and what needs to continue to evolve:

"First off, he’s exceptionally well-trained, which allows him to really utilize his skill set. He’s got really good hands, and he can really skate. Those are three pretty good attributes to have coming into training camp and to start the season, and obviously being a new player, to answer the second part, he’s trying to fit in. He’s trying to adapt to the locker room, adapt to pretty much a room that’s obviously there’s 15 or 16 guys that have played together for two or three years that are used to winning and used to being successful, so he’s trying to fit in to that.

On Frattin’s “north-south†efforts:
It’s clearly part of his game. It’s very easy to see that"

Sutter doesn't typically throw out 'exceptionally' or multiple praises like that. 'exceptionally trained', 'really good hands' and 'can really skate' and that he's trying to adapt and fit in is good as well.

When I think of what this will mean for Richards and Carter, is having a consistent linemate that has speed, really good hands, and is also good at battling...will make their games that much better. For the last year and a half (when Carter arrived Feb 1) they have mostly played with King and Penner, who were pretty subpar; or at least very inconsistent. They didn't have chemistry with Richards and Carter. If teams put their checking line or #1 line against the Kopitar line, the Richards line will be more potent now and score more goals.
 
Tonights game vs. the Ducks will be televised. :yo:

During the Kings’ 2013 exhibition season, the following games will air on TV: Tuesday, September 24, versus the Ducks on PRIME TICKET and Friday, September 27, versus the New York Rangers on KCOP-13. Both games, which begin at 7:30 p.m., will feature 30-minute “Kings Live†pregame (7 p.m. start time) and postgame shows.
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Peter James Bond said:
DSutter on Frattin:

On what he has appreciated that Frattin has brought, and what needs to continue to evolve:

"First off, he’s exceptionally well-trained, which allows him to really utilize his skill set. He’s got really good hands, and he can really skate. Those are three pretty good attributes to have coming into training camp and to start the season, and obviously being a new player, to answer the second part, he’s trying to fit in. He’s trying to adapt to the locker room, adapt to pretty much a room that’s obviously there’s 15 or 16 guys that have played together for two or three years that are used to winning and used to being successful, so he’s trying to fit in to that.

On Frattin’s “north-south†efforts:
It’s clearly part of his game. It’s very easy to see that"

Sutter doesn't typically throw out 'exceptionally' or multiple praises like that. 'exceptionally trained', 'really good hands' and 'can really skate' and that he's trying to adapt and fit in is good as well.

When I think of what this will mean for Richards and Carter, is having a consistent linemate that has speed, really good hands, and is also good at battling...will make their games that much better. For the last year and a half (when Carter arrived Feb 1) they have mostly played with King and Penner, who were pretty subpar; or at least very inconsistent. They didn't have chemistry with Richards and Carter. If teams put their checking line or #1 line against the Kopitar line, the Richards line will be more potent now and score more goals.
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Here's another tidbit from Coach Sutter:

On whether Doughty was affected by playing with multiple defensive partners last year:
No, it didn’t affect Drew at all. It impacted how much he had to play, and it impacted our win-loss record. It was injury-related. Drew can play with anybody, but Drew’s on the ice against the other team’s best players a lot. So Drew’s partner last year wasn’t necessarily doing a good enough job for us, so we got Robyn.
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(Bolded for emphasis)

http://lakingsinsider.com/2013/09/23/september-23-practice-quotes-darryl-sutter/

Was Sutter taking a shot at Muzzin?
 
Maybe not a shot directly at Muzzin, but definitely saying the guys Drew played with needed looking after, whether it was Muzzin or someone else. For the most part he was paired with younger guys rather than seasoned ones early in the year, and it was obvious he was carrying the load. It's no surprise that his scoring increased later in the season.

Drew does so much out there each shift that I think some of the younger guys would get caught watching him do his thing sometimes. A seasoned guy like WM or RR won't get caught up in that. It's just part of developing in the NHL.
 
doughty has become the security blanket back on D. plain and simple. i laugh when people criticize and throw out the "wth is wrong with DD" comments, because he doesn't get the points now.

the guy is playing more top D pairing minutes, compared to when he broke into the league. his focus and his play is geared more on shutting down the top opposing line than scoring.

who knows if he will ever produce OEL, Karlsson type offensive numbers again. then again i can't see those two or similar D playing to the degree that DD has in a shutdown role.
 
So by my count we have 10 Dmen in camp right?

Doughty
Voynov
Regehr
Greene
Mitchell
Ellerby
Schultz
Muzzin
Martinez
Bodnarchuk

They must really like Bodnarchuk.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
I've read thoughts from Ducks fans and they want nothing to do with Penner on the top line. I think he's gotten too comfortable playing in a certain environment where there isn't as much pressure on him to perform as there was in Edmonton. They got on his case in Edmonton and he responded. Now? Not so much. You see spurts of that potential in him but for the most part, you are going to always be left wanting more out of him.
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Ziggy-

There are a lot of Ducks fans that think Penner scores north of 40 points as well. I think it's possible in a highly offensive minded system, but you definitely get the inconsistent effort.

I still think he has a great deal of value in the playoffs. Granted, i'd take a guy like Bickell any day over Penner because I think he works harder.

Ultimately, I believe Frattin will play a nice role on the 2nd line in place of Penner.

I do hope the Kings can slot Toffoli into the lineup. I don't think he will have much benefit being back down in Manchester. He's too skilled.
 
Reaper45 said:
So by my count we have 10 Dmen in camp right?

Doughty
Voynov
Regehr
Greene
Mitchell
Ellerby
Schultz
Muzzin
Martinez
Bodnarchuk

They must really like Bodnarchuk.
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Forbort and Bodnarcchuk are both left handers if I remember right... So yeah either both of them stepped up their game or Muzzin/Martinez/Ellerby hasn't made a case that the 6th D spot should be theirs... I'm going to go with the first option... Trying to be more positive!!!
 
Whiskeypete said:
doughty has become the security blanket back on D. plain and simple. i laugh when people criticize and throw out the "wth is wrong with DD" comments, because he doesn't get the points now.

the guy is playing more top D pairing minutes, compared to when he broke into the league. his focus and his play is geared more on shutting down the top opposing line than scoring.

who knows if he will ever produce OEL, Karlsson type offensive numbers again. then again i can't see those two or similar D playing to the degree that DD has in a shutdown role.
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?gameType=2&position=S&season=20122013&sort=timeOnIce&status=A&viewName=timeOnIce

Was far and away the biggest workhorse on the Kings last year. Add those stats to the fact he plays top minutes in a defense first system and he isn't going to put up points... Especially not when forwards like Richards and Stoll are eating minutes on the PP playing the point. His role is like you said, to be the rock that the defense is built around. Look at the disparity between OEL and DD in pp time. Doughty played as hard of minutes as Chara did last year which is crazy.
 
Bandit said:
We didn't win it all in '93, but I do remember Suchuck's OT goal against the Canucks quite vividly. Also I do hold King in a regard than most do around here. :) I guess I just don't see what the point is of harping on Penner now that he's gone, especially when we very well may have not won the cup without him. We got the cup, he's gone now, hopefully Frattin is an upgrade... win/win/win as far as I'm concerned.
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Damn right Bandit. Dustin Penner will never get a negative remark from me. He did play a big part in us winning the cup. Same for King. In fact any player who played on that cup winning team gets nothing but an ovation from me for giving me such enjoyment for that playoff run.
 
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