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GDT: Trades & Free Agency

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sxvnert said:
You mention 'condescending' and that add that nonsense.
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Sorry if it was interpreted as such, but it was meant as an honest consideration.

ACC1224 said:
The only meaningful change they can make is the coach, they need to wait a year for anything else.
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I disagree. If the same thing plays out in this playoff as in the others, not considering big changes like this is bordering on negligence.

Matthews' prime won't last forever, and the idea of potentially risking another year with 4 guys at 11m is just crazy.
 
Rare Jewel said:
Sorry if it was interpreted as such, but it was meant as an honest consideration.


I disagree. If the same thing plays out in this playoff as in the others, not considering big changes like this is bordering on negligence.

Matthews' prime won't last forever, and the idea of potentially risking another year with 4 guys at 11m is just crazy.
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I'm sure they will consider many things if that were the case.
Any realistic option will be on the table.
 
horner said:
Keep an eye on Arizona if the move to Utah.
Some players may not want to go.
Jake McBain not saying he wouldn't want to go but he would be a good target to trade for.

Joshua Dakota UFA C would be a good target
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There’s a report that they’d be happy to spend, too.
So, add that to unhappy players, and the overflowing treasure chest of good picks they’ve accumulated, and it could be a reallllllllly interesting * first off-season.
 
ACC1224 said:
I'm sure they will consider many things if that were the case.
Any realistic option will be on the table.
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Hopefully, I just hope they have an expansive idea of realism.


The alternative to not trading Marner is signing him, and I'm having trouble getting myself on board with that right now, and that's even before the term or $ is considered because I question now whether the group mix is right.

At this point, I feel a conference final appearance is nearly necessary to quell the past disappointments. Perhaps that's too much to ask, but something emphatic is needed.
 
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sxvnert said:
Not my post :laugh:
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Yeah, I was responding to your post until I saw that @ACC1224 had posted again, and I want to clarify what I meant because it didn't read particularly well.


I was going to say something about last Summer being the time to move. Nylander or Marner shouldn't be influenced by how they may deal with it in the future.
 
Rare Jewel said:
Yeah, I was responding to your post until I saw that @ACC1224 had posted again, and I want to clarify what I meant because it didn't read particularly well.
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Sure but this part isn't what I posted:

"You mention 'condescending' and that add that nonsense."

which is how its formatted above. No worries though. Just edit it out.
 
horner said:
Keep an eye on Arizona if the move to Utah.
Some players may not want to go.
Jake McBain not saying he wouldn't want to go but he would be a good target to trade for.

Joshua Dakota UFA C would be a good target
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What about Hayton? He's young enough to still have some upside if we put him in an advantageous position and at his best has a half a PPG season under his belt
 
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Rare Jewel said:
Hopefully, I just hope they have an expansive idea of realism.


The alternative to not trading Marner is signing him, and I'm having trouble getting myself on board with that right now, and that's even before the term or $ is considered because I question now whether the group mix is right.

At this point, I feel a conference final appearance is nearly necessary to quell the past disappointments. Perhaps that's too much to ask, but something emphatic is needed.
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I’m not a huge Marner fan, but I appreciate his undeniable talent.

I appreciate and recognize his incredible skills, but I don’t feel he is a player you go into a battle royal of a playoff, where every inch of ice is fought for, and you pay a heavy physical price while hopefully dishing it out too.

He’s done nothing to show that he’s that kind of player. Not that anyone of our high priced players have demonstrated any Cro-Magnon like tendencies in the past, but Marner’s absence has been the most glaring in the past. Then add the mental mistakes.

I really think this is a pivotal playoff for him specifically, as he is the only UFA of consequence at this time. Matthews and Nylander are extended and Tavares is taking a pay cut. That is non-negotiable.

What remains with Marner is by extending Marner and giving him the $12m minimum that he’s asking, does he make a difference to this team winning and being Stanley Cup champions?

We’ve shown we can win without him. Treliving has shown he can bring players like Domi and Bertuzzi who we didn’t have before. He brings in talent that can play with our talent, who also make us harder to play against in a way Marner never can.

We have a glaring gap at 1RHD and will have another glaring gap at 2C with Tavares winding down.

$12m would fill this gaps with money to spare.

Marner is what he is. Supremely talented, but he isn’t hardwired nor is he hard to play against. $12m brings us 2-3 quality players who help us shore up existing areas of weakness in a way we can’t if he’s extended.

I just find the opportunity cost to keeping him far exceeds what he has brought in the past and what I expect him to bring going forward.

He’s no playoff beast. He’s a happy go lucky smiley kid that isn’t built for playoff hockey, but is going to get paid because of his talents.

We need more diversified skills.
 
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Marner is one of the best players in the world, regular season and playoffs. He has a NMC on a competitive team, in the city he wants to be in, and has a decade of great hockey ahead of him. The only thing trying to get him to waive his NMC would do is piss him off, and risk losing him for nothing the following offseason - sabotaging our future cup chances. Hopefully MLSE is smarter than that.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
Marner is one of the best players in the world, regular season and playoffs. He has a NMC on a competitive team, in the city he wants to be in, and has a decade of great hockey ahead of him. The only thing trying to get him to waive his NMC would do is piss him off, and risk losing him for nothing the following offseason - sabotaging our future cup chances. Hopefully MLSE is smarter than that.
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If the Leafs fail to make any kind of noise in the playoffs, I think you put feelings aside. If Marner wants to walk after next year cause he’s upset he got asked to waive to his destination of choice, we’ll get 11 + whatever raise he’ll want to play with. Some really good pending free agents scheduled to be available that year, Ekblad, Ehlers, Pionk, Buchnevich, Konecny, Ullmark, Saros, Chychrun, etc. If you can sign Saros and Chychrun (7 mill each) for an extra 1.5/2 million than what Marner will want, I’m completely fine with that.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
Marner is one of the best players in the world, regular season and playoffs. He has a NMC on a competitive team, in the city he wants to be in, and has a decade of great hockey ahead of him. The only thing trying to get him to waive his NMC would do is piss him off, and risk losing him for nothing the following offseason - sabotaging our future cup chances. Hopefully MLSE is smarter than that.
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That's lovely. If the team fails to perform yet again in the playoffs, then he should be prepared to be asked, as should Tavares and possibly even Rielly.

Also, the idea he would get pissed and not resign just to stick to the Leafs kind of goes against the idea of wanting to be here, but hey whatever floats his hypothetical boat.
 
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If the Leafs have an early exit, and they decide it's time to move Marner, it is not going to be "you're going to Utah or Winnipeg, so deal with it" kind of situation.

Marner has full control, which means if they want to move him, the only way to do so is to say to him "we think it's time to go in a different direction, can you give us 3-4 teams you'd consider going to".

Those teams will almost certainly be ones that Marner has an interest in resigning with; but probably wont have the space to accomodate him without substantial subtractions from their roster given that they're going to be good teams.

That's going to substantially limit his value in trade.

So, the Leafs have to ask themselves --are they set on moving Marner knowing that it's probably not going to be a great return, and likely going to piss off Matthews, or do they just bit the bullet for next year, and try to work out a massive paycut for Tavares.
 
Marner to Utah could be interesting. Arizona has a lot of good youth coming up, Keller, Maccelli, Cooley, Doan, Geunther, etc. Utah is a really nice area and you have a once in a lifetime opportunity starting with a brand new franchise, setting multiple records and potentially becoming their first ever captain.

Not saying it would happen or Marner would have interest but some good selling points for sure.
 
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TMLAM34 said:
If the Leafs fail to make any kind of noise in the playoffs, I think you put feelings aside.
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I agree. You put feelings and emotions from the playoff loss aside. You do what's best for the team moving forward, and keep Marner.
Rare Jewel said:
That's lovely. If the team fails to perform yet again in the playoffs, then he should be prepared to be asked, as should Tavares and possibly even Rielly.
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Not advancing is not the same as not performing, and getting rid of the best performers isn't fixing anything.
Asking them accomplishes nothing good regardless. They're not waiving. You'd just be pissing off your best players for no reason.
 
Dekes For Days said:
I agree. You put feelings and emotions from the playoff loss aside. You do what's best for the team moving forward, and keep Marner.

Not advancing is not the same as not performing, and getting rid of the best performers isn't fixing anything.
Asking them accomplishes nothing good regardless. They're not waiving. You'd just be pissing off your best players for no reason.
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Keeping the course and telling the top players that they are safe, regardless of outcome also accomplishes nothing good.
 
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Who's the best goalie we can add in the offseason, either as a stop-gap to Woll/Hildeby or as the longterm answer in net?
 
Americanadian said:
We’re in year 8, what have the Leafs accomplished?
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A lot more than we would have without Marner.
You can dwell on a misunderstood past if you'd like, but right now, I'm focused on what best helps us win a cup in years 8 and beyond. That's keeping Marner.
Dreakmur said:
Unless you’d be better off building better balance through the lineup.
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We're not better off losing one of our best players, and we don't need to lose him to have balance in our lineup. And Marner isn't waiving regardless.
 
Dekes For Days said:
A lot more than we would have without Marner.
You can dwell on a misunderstood past if you'd like, but right now, I'm focused on what best helps us win a cup in years 8 and beyond. That's keeping Marner.

We're not better off losing one of our best players, and we don't need to lose him to have balance in our lineup. And Marner isn't waiving regardless.
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If they fail to make it past round 1 again, how does keeping Marner really help? It would be the same story for 8 years and counting, great regular season players and success who can’t achieve anything when it matters. How does repeating the same thing that hasn’t worked that many years help?
 
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